Switch Gehenna and Carceri?

[Endril]

I'd like to know others' thoughts on this. I'm considering switching where these 2 planes are on the wheel. It won't have a mechanical effect, but I rule that these planes are *slightly* chaotic or lawful, and it will effect my campaign world due to a heavy planar influence on the setting.

Carceri is full of prisons, which seems more lawful to me. Gehenna is made up of volcanoes, which seem more chaotic to me. There isn't much more to base chaos/law on, but I feel that's enough to justify a switch.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Well, you're free to interpret the planes as you will, but Afroakuma will disagree with you :smalltongue:.

It's been a while since I read it, but I believe he explained that in Carceri, you are not imprisoned in the name of a higher ideal (lawful) or by the whim of some greater power (chaotic), but by your own behaviour, which keeps you and others from getting ahead (let alone out). Remember, there are no prison wardens on Carceri--everyone is an inmate.

[Darth Ultron]

Carceri in my mind leans Chaotic because it is a plane of "imprisonment" where the inmates run the show. The creatures locked away here are locked away because they broke the rules, or at least disregarded them. The idea on everyone's mind is escape -- freedom, liberation. But they're metaphysically unable to attain the freedom they desire. They're too self-interested to work together to attain their freedom. They're chaotic -- they rebel, they are individualists, they fight the power -- but they're more evil than they are chaotic. They're more interested in getting ahead than in defying the order that has them imprisoned. Carceri exists because these people feel persecuted, like victims of law and order and other people. So in death, they are persecuted as well.

Gehenna in my mind leans Lawful in a way not entirely dissimilar. It is a place of insular in-groups, of xenophobia and suspicion of outsiders. Little petty warlords on their petty thrones. This is mimicked in the shape of the mountains: there is a social stratum, there are people at the top...of course, those people are at the top of a crappy little mountain, not really ruling over much of anything of worth. But that's the mindset, right? Any petty power over any petty aspect of life that gives you a little bit of an edge, makes you feel like a big tuff guy. Charity's for dupes and what I like is best. Of course, their vision is limited...they don't have imperial visions or want to rule the world. Too much hassle, too much investment in what other people want or think. Just give me my throne of propaganda on my molehill of manure, and I'll be happy. The people who wind up in Gehenna are far too self-interested to do the hard work necessary to truly build a lasting dominion of evil, but they're happy to bully and backstab and work together to make the lives of everyone not playing by their rules miserable.

[Castilonium]

Carceri in my mind leans Chaotic because it is a plane of "imprisonment" where the inmates run the show. The creatures locked away here are locked away because they broke the rules, or at least disregarded them. The idea on everyone's mind is escape -- freedom, liberation. But they're metaphysically unable to attain the freedom they desire. They're too self-interested to work together to attain their freedom. They're chaotic -- they rebel, they are individualists, they fight the power -- but they're more evil than they are chaotic. They're more interested in getting ahead than in defying the order that has them imprisoned. Carceri exists because these people feel persecuted, like victims of law and order and other people. So in death, they are persecuted as well.

Gehenna in my mind leans Lawful in a way not entirely dissimilar. It is a place of insular in-groups, of xenophobia and suspicion of outsiders. Little petty warlords on their petty thrones. This is mimicked in the shape of the mountains: there is a social stratum, there are people at the top...of course, those people are at the top of a crappy little mountain, not really ruling over much of anything of worth. But that's the mindset, right? Any petty power over any petty aspect of life that gives you a little bit of an edge, makes you feel like a big tuff guy. Charity's for dupes and what I like is best. Of course, their vision is limited...they don't have imperial visions or want to rule the world. Too much hassle, too much investment in what other people want or think. Just give me my throne of propaganda on my molehill of manure, and I'll be happy. The people who wind up in Gehenna are far too self-interested to do the hard work necessary to truly build a lasting dominion of evil, but they're happy to bully and backstab and work together to make the lives of everyone not playing by their rules miserable.

Are you a banana? (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?353853-The-Great-Wheel-Positioning-Gehenna-and-Tarterus-Carceri)