The Bard/Hexblade Gish

[Longcat]

Hi all,
I'm joining a Horde of the Dragon Queen game that is currently in chapter 4. The characters are level 8 (coming from a prior adventure), so that's the level at which I'll be joining. The game is likely to progress to level ~15.

The goal is to create a versatile melee striker that can also contribute in the social and exploration pillars. Roleplay wise, the character is an orphan that grew up to be the apprentice of a mad scientist (NPC from a previous campaign) who is known to perform ethically questionable experiments. Said scientist is also the patron for the Warlock pact, with the boons coming from the experiments.

Here is what I have so far:

Variant Human Hexblade 5/Bard 3 (taken in that order)
Background: Urchin
Feat: Great Weapon Master
Attributes: Strength 8, Dexterity 14, Constitution 16, Intelligence 8, Wisdom 10, Charisma 18
Skills: Acrobatics, Deception, Perception*, Persuasion, Stealth*, Sleight of Hand
Invocations: Agonizing Blast, Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite

Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Swords Burst, Minor Illusion
1st: Shield, Expeditious Retreat
2nd: Misty Step, Mirror Image
3rd: Fly, Elemental Weapon


Cantrips: Prestidigitation, Friends
1st: Charm Person, Cure Wounds, Faerie Fire, Healing Word
2nd: Hold Person, Invisibility


Where I'm stumped on is the choice of college for the Bard. The way I see it, these are the distinct advantages offered:

Lore: Three extra skills (Would likely be Intimidate, Insight and Survival), Cutting Words and extra spell secrets down the road.
Swords: proficiencies and fighting styles would be a dead feature, though Blade Flourish is excellent. Extra Attack would be a dead class feature down the road though
Whispers: Psychic Blades is basically extra smites. The other features aid the social pillar.


Suggestions for the build? Which college would you pick?

[darknite]

I have a Bard (Swords) 11 / Warlock (Hexblade) 1 that I started specifically to wield a Scimitar of Speed another PC had picked up (so focus of Patron). It's fun to have a full caster with significant melee capability. Hexblade brings in shield proficiency and he had to take Warcaster to be able to cast Shield in combat.

Most of his spells are optimized for buffs (Freedom of Movement, Haste, etc) with a little party support (Healing Word, Lesser/Greater Restoration) and Offense (Hold Monster) as well as the obligatory Dispel Magic & Counterspell. When hasted he gets four attacks a turn (Extra Attack, Bonus Action Attack from Scimitar of Speed and Haste attack), which stacks up damage pretty quick. Will eventually get Tenser's Transformation and Foresight, too.

[Vogie]

Lore bard's Additional Magical Secrets would work with your backstory of cross-disciplinary experimentation
Whispers Bard would only be useful if you were planning on crit fishing for giant smites... and not a lot else.
Swords bard's ability to use a your weapon as a spellcasting focus will decrease the necessity of picking up Improved pact weapon, which would be nice. Add that with the BI smites that also give a AC boost, Pushing strike, or Sweeping strike, and (As long as you take another level in warlock down the road) you can replace Thirsting Blade with another invocation because you'll get an extra attack for free at level 11 (HBW 5, SwB 6)

I personally would go Swords Bard, unless you have something part of your concept to go another route (like wanting to use Magical secrets to pick up paladin smite spells or whatever)

[ProseBeforeHos]

I wouldn't go Hexblade 5/Bard 3.

I'd go Hexblade 1 (all the power is in the first level) Valor Bard 6 (get extra attack from here)

After that either keep pumping bard, or take a second level of warlock (for invocations), or even 2 levels of fighter for action surge (or even 2 levels of paladin for smite?).

I also wouldn't go GWM, It's just not worth it without a way to reliable guarantee advantage. Grab warcaster and go sword/board.

This build will have better AC since it uses a shield, will have many more spell slots (meaning more spamming of the shield spell), and better spell progression since we'd only dipping a single level into warlock.

It's downside is that it hits extra attack later (lvl 7), but in almost every other way it's superior.

If you go Hexblade 5 then go into lorebard at least, for extra skills and cutting word (still wouldn't recommend GWM).

[Aaron Underhand]

I like the warlock 5 / bard 3 split - I'd go lore bard and take that to 6 at least (for the magical secrets).

And I'd keep GWM - you have faerie fire to generate advantage. With luck you can get bless from someone else - almost worth it as a magical secret if you cant....

Cutting words is excellent, and can replace shield spell sometimes - once it's refreshing on a short rest you can keep your spell slots for more valuable things....

[Citan]

Hi all,
I'm joining a Horde of the Dragon Queen game that is currently in chapter 4. The characters are level 8 (coming from a prior adventure), so that's the level at which I'll be joining. The game is likely to progress to level ~15.

The goal is to create a versatile melee striker that can also contribute in the social and exploration pillars. Roleplay wise, the character is an orphan that grew up to be the apprentice of a mad scientist (NPC from a previous campaign) who is known to perform ethically questionable experiments. Said scientist is also the patron for the Warlock pact, with the boons coming from the experiments.

Here is what I have so far:

Variant Human Hexblade 5/Bard 3 (taken in that order)
Background: Urchin
Feat: Great Weapon Master
Attributes: Strength 8, Dexterity 14, Constitution 16, Intelligence 8, Wisdom 10, Charisma 18
Skills: Acrobatics, Deception, Perception*, Persuasion, Stealth*, Sleight of Hand
Invocations: Agonizing Blast, Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite

Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Swords Burst, Minor Illusion
1st: Shield, Expeditious Retreat
2nd: Misty Step, Mirror Image
3rd: Fly, Elemental Weapon


Cantrips: Prestidigitation, Friends
1st: Charm Person, Cure Wounds, Faerie Fire, Healing Word
2nd: Hold Person, Invisibility


Where I'm stumped on is the choice of college for the Bard. The way I see it, these are the distinct advantages offered:

Lore: Three extra skills (Would likely be Intimidate, Insight and Survival), Cutting Words and extra spell secrets down the road.
Swords: proficiencies and fighting styles would be a dead feature, though Blade Flourish is excellent. Extra Attack would be a dead class feature down the road though
Whispers: Psychic Blades is basically extra smites. The other features aid the social pillar.


Suggestions for the build? Which college would you pick?
Hi!

IF Warlock doesn't have Counterspell on your spell list or if you need to fill in the blaster role (Fireball), go Lore Bard. Otherwise, go Swords...
Is really what I would do without hesitation, because overall I think Swords mix much better with your goal...

EDIT: never mind, I see now you want to pick Great Weapon Master for whatever reason (I'd advise against it actually, but I may just have missed your objective with it ;)), in which case Lore Bard is overall bringing more value to you.

[Longcat]

I want to go GWM for these reasons:

I have reliable ways to generate advantage: Between Faerie Fire on the Bard side and Eldritch Smite having a guaranteed knockdown, GWM is a really attractive option.
Someone spoiled Hazirawn to me, which drops in chapter seven. From what I remember it's a +2 Greatsword that deals +2d6 bonus damage, and I do not know if there will be comparable weapons for the other styles in the adventure.
With Hexblade's Curse, I can increase my threat range to 19-20, and with advantage, I can potentially fish for large criticals.


For these reasons, I believe GWM will eclipse all other fighting styles for this adventure.

[mormon_soldier]

Why would extra attack be a dead feature? If you go valour bard14/hexblade1, war caster lets you blast and then attack with your pact weapon in one round. Valour inspiration is super useful as well.

[Longcat]

The build requires at least three levels of Warlock to work, as the character can't wield a greatsword otherwise.

[ProseBeforeHos]

I want to go GWM for these reasons:

I have reliable ways to generate advantage: Between Faerie Fire on the Bard side and Eldritch Smite having a guaranteed knockdown, GWM is a really attractive option.
Someone spoiled Hazirawn to me, which drops in chapter seven. From what I remember it's a +2 Greatsword that deals +2d6 bonus damage, and I do not know if there will be comparable weapons for the other styles in the adventure.
With Hexblade's Curse, I can increase my threat range to 19-20, and with advantage, I can potentially fish for large criticals.


For these reasons, I believe GWM will eclipse all other fighting styles for this adventure.

Alright, but be aware that a you're only on a D8 HD. With your lack of AC and HP you will be very weak defensively, you must rely heavily on self-buffing spells. I'd be temped by resilient: constitution for better concentration checks if you can work it into your build.

The problem with Hexblade 5/Bard X is that it's such a heavy investment into Hexblade that you might as well go single class at least to level 12. The real advantage of the Hexblade multi-class is that you get almost everything you need at with only a 1 level dip. If you have already 'sank' 5 levels into the class, then that logic no longer holds.

Honestly for this build I would go Hexblade 12 (for thirsting blade) or even Hexblade 14 (for master of hexs), then multiclass out into bard or sorc for more slots (I'd actually recommend sorc over bard, so you can grab absorb elements). This build is lacking in that it doesn't have the low level slots to spam on the shield spell, but it will hit the highest level of spell progression (i.e. if yo're starting at level 8 you can go right into Shadow of Moil right from the get go).

[GorogIrongut]

I'm actually okay with you going GWM. It enables you to do all of your casting without worrying about warcaster or fiddly use of equipment. Where I'm not okay is with you going to level 5 Hexblade. One level is nice enough, but if you want your pact, you need to get to 3. Nothing after level 3 adds to this character. If you decide to drop using a GW, then as has already been highlighted you have no need to go past level 1.

As for the bard side of things:
-Swords is the antithesis of a GW user. Not even Blade Flourish is useful as it limits what weapons you can use it with... and none of them are GW's.
-Whisper isn't a bad idea. Just remember that the 2d6 damage is poison damage. Which is one of the weaker forms of damage.
-Lore is probably your strongest bet. It keeps you magically relevant.

So if it were me, I'd go Hexblade 3, Lore Bard 5.

Though if it were really me, I'd either go:
Hexblade 3/ Stone Sorceror 5 (if you have access to UA) or
Hexblade 3 (Pact of the tome)/Arcane Trickster 5 (this one obviously wouldn't be a GW user but would still be ridiculously combat oriented and have loads of survivability/skill monkeyness due to the rogue chassis. And you don't need to use a GW because you benefit from Sneak Attack while still using the hexblade's ability to use charisma for weapon use).

Of the two the latter seems to meet your established criteria of The goal is to create a versatile melee striker that can also contribute in the social and exploration pillars. It also frees you up from the GWM feat tax which means you can either get a different feat that helps strengthen your character or allows you to be something different to a Variant Human (which I've always found to be weaker) like one of the many variants of a Half Elf (MUCH stronger than a VHuman).

[Crgaston]

Lore is probably best for the reasons already mentioned, but I’ll take this opportunity to mention Glamour since no one has already. Not only do you get the ability to Stealth Charm up to 4 targets per rest without a spell slot, you can also use your inspiration to give up to 4 allies temporary hp and Disengage/Dash as a reaction on YOUR turn. So you can clear the field for an AOE, get them out of trouble and reposition everyone mid-combat. By the time you hit 5th level, that’s 8hp x 4 targets x 4 uses per short rest. Ballin’.

And then at 6th, you can cast Command every round for a minute as a bonus action once per long rest.
“Grovel!”

Hello, GWM Advantage.

[DonaldT]

As for the bard side of things:
-Swords is the antithesis of a GW user. Not even Blade Flourish is useful as it limits what weapons you can use it with... and none of them are GW's.


Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see anything in the description of Blade Flourish that limits what weapons it works with.

[GorogIrongut]

Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see anything in the description of Blade Flourish that limits what weapons it works with.

I was remembering the UA version that says, 'When you use the Attack action on your turn and attack with a dagger, longsword, rapier, scimitar, or shortsword, you can attempt one of the following flourishes.'

Xanathar's must've changed that thus nullifying my comments.

[Ebon]

Honestly for this build I would go Hexblade 12 (for thirsting blade) or even Hexblade 14 (for master of hexs), then multiclass out into bard or sorc for more slots (I'd actually recommend sorc over bard, so you can grab absorb elements)..

Hi, new here, so I apologize if my reply is less than elegant. I wanted to echo the poster who suggested waiting to multi-class into Bard entirely. I would wait for level 9 or 10 maybe, then begin the rest of the levels as a Bard or Sorcerer perhaps.

A Human variant Hexblade at level 8 is hard to beat, all by itself. You'll have Cha 20, and I would take Warcaster as the better feat option for this build though. I mean, Warcaster is exactly what a Hexblade is, and each of the feat's benefits are great for this build. You can shoot Toll the Dead as your Cantrip Opportunity attack, Constitution Advantage is better than Proficiency and is great for your Hex spell. And the often overlooked Casting requirement drops are the Rules as Written answer for holding a shield, arcane focus weapon (+1 with Improved Pact Weapon), and casting Eldritch Blast or anything else without stowing and readying gear.

Plus with 8 full levels, we've got at least 2 level 4 Spells like Shadow of Moil and Synaptic Static. The Intelligence save on Synaptic Static would wreck low Int opponents.

This build takes Invocations: (Dare) Devil's Sight, Agonizing Blast, Thirsting Blade, Improved Pact Weapon

The Spell List also has Counterspell, Dispel Magic, Fly, Vampiric Touch (for an emergency Self Heal), Misty Step, Shield, and Hex.

If you find that Magic Sword, you could just take GWM at level 12 anyway. Or preferably maybe, Sharpshooter, since you can make a +1 Ranged Pact Weapon that shoots twice with -5/+10 and Darkvision. It's one of the more solid gish builds I've seen.

Thanks, and hope any of this might help.

[Ebon]

Another thing to consider here is AC. Most GWM are sporting Heavy Armor, your character will not. He'll be burning more of those Bard slots on Shield, which also uses his reaction, and could potentially interfere with GWM's reaction effect. Something to consider.

Warcaster is almost like an extra +2 or +3 AC for a shield, which you also won't get with a Great Weapon.

I still like going into Bard after Level 9 or 10. A half Hexblade, half Bard is incredibly strong and fun.

[Longcat]

Regarding Hexblade1/Bard7: This would lock the character out of using Greatswords, potentially lose a second attack and lose the +Cha on Eldritch Blast. While full casting would make up for it, it would drastically change the playstyle of the character.

Regarding Hexblade3/Other5: I don't have access to UA, sadly. It's just official books.

Regarding full Hexblade: I'm concerned about the pacing of the adventure and specifically the frequency of short rests. From what I've gathered, the adventure is more likely to be 2-3 fights and then a long rest, which would make this option a lot less attractive.

About AC: I'm losing 1 AC and 1HP/level compared to a Fighter or Paladin, in return for much better capabilities during ranged combat, exploration and socialization.

[Spiritchaser]

A comment on toughness and faerie fire

One reason a GWM hexblade works with medium armor and (of course with GWM) no shield, is that in most cases the enemy is at a disadvantage to hit you.

Sure there are exceptions, but most of the time, running darkness or shadow of Moil (or greater Invisibility if available from MC, only feylocks can have this by default) is needed for advantage.

These also give your foes disadvantage, and this is a big deal with your lower AC. Half plate and no shield with disadvantage is perfectly front line capable. Darkness goes one better adding meaningful battlefield control, though it can mess up allies in many encounters so use with care.

If you go bard, I strongly suggest picking up Shadow of Moil or Greater Invisibility from magical secrets. Faerie Fire is a fantastic spell, by all means take it if you can, but plan on using something that protects you as well most of the time.

Now: with more bard slots, you can probably use the shield spell more flexibly, but you’d really rather save your slots yes?

[DonaldT]

Regarding Hexblade1/Bard7: This would lock the character out of using Greatswords, potentially lose a second attack

It wouldn't lock the character out of using Greatswords, but the character would have to use Strength rather than Charisma as his or her attack stat with the Greatsword, so the character would lose much of the benefit of the Hexblade 1. The charcter would still get a second attack so long as her or she chose the College of Swords or the College of Valor.

[BlackRose]

If you want to stay on the great sword path I would start by replacing thirsting blade with devil sight and get on the darkness train. This will significantly increase your survivability which will be important for a low hp character on the front lines. This will also allow you to maintain advantage against the enemies you're fighting so you can use GWM to it's fullest. Just play around blocking your team with by casting it on a stone and keeping the stone on the edge of the enemy you're fighting and leaving the rest open for your team. Or if you have time to set it up you try casting/ritualing an unseen servant to carry the stone for you.

To make up for the loss of damage from your extra attack you can even use the booming blade cantrip for some extra damage. This will also make them take more damage as they leave the blinding darkness and give you an attack of opportunity as they do so (warcaster down the road lets you booming blade them again as they walk away, dealing both the base damage and trigger damage immedietly). Add in cloak of flies and each turn you're booming blading people they're also taking poison damage.

As for the Bard archetypes I have to agree that Lore is probably your best bet. College of Swords has lots of redundency but gives you some nice ways to use inspiration as damage, and the best bonus to that is probably the extra ac as well. Also greenflame blade with slashing flourish gives you some pretty impressive aoe. Plus down the line you get extra attack to replace thirsting blade. College of whispers gives excellent bonus damage and some good rp options but nothing really stands out as being useful outside of what you already have. That said, mantle of whispers and accursed spectre together let you really rub salt in the wound of someone you kill.

College of lore gives you three skills, an incredible use of bardic inspiration, and free cherry picked spells. Bardic inspiration with cutting words can become ac/health for you or your friends, which can help shore up your poor defenses. And there are so many applications of magical secrets

Animate dead - use short rest slots to maintain your skeleton army when you wake up, then chill for an hour while your party makes breakfast and cleans up camp.

Fireball - fireball

Conjure animals - a pack of wolves to trip and grant advantage, meat shields to be between you and the bad guys

Counterspell - cuz bards are so good at it

Haste - ac, an extra swing

Spiritual weapon - no conc, bonus action attacks, advantage under your darkness

Spirit guardians - if you're not a prime target you probably will be with this up, but the shield spell will give you lots of time to keep up the damage on enemies. Plus if you hit them with booming blade they will have a hard time hitting you or leaving

And lots more

My suggestion would be to get 6 in Bard after your intial 5/3 split and then I'd probably keep going warlock from there. The other option would be to get 7 in warlock first to get another invocation and higher slots. If you go lore bard this will be a good way to maintain melee damage, and then with magical secrets you should probably nyx the damaging spells and pick up utility instead

[GorogIrongut]

The goal is to create a versatile melee striker that can also contribute in the social and exploration pillars. Roleplay wise, the character is an orphan that grew up to be the apprentice of a mad scientist (NPC from a previous campaign) who is known to perform ethically questionable experiments. Said scientist is also the patron for the Warlock pact, with the boons coming from the experiments.

Here is what I have so far:

Variant Human Hexblade 5/Bard 3 (taken in that order)
Background: Urchin
Feat: Great Weapon Master
Attributes: Strength 8, Dexterity 14, Constitution 16, Intelligence 8, Wisdom 10, Charisma 18
Skills: Acrobatics, Deception, Perception*, Persuasion, Stealth*, Sleight of Hand
Invocations: Agonizing Blast, Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite

Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Swords Burst, Minor Illusion
1st: Shield, Expeditious Retreat
2nd: Misty Step, Mirror Image
3rd: Fly, Elemental Weapon


Cantrips: Prestidigitation, Friends
1st: Charm Person, Cure Wounds, Faerie Fire, Healing Word
2nd: Hold Person, Invisibility



Here's what I would do:
Half Elf (drow which nets you dancing lights/faerie fire/darkness)
Hexblade 3 (Pact of Tome) / Arcane Trickster 5
Str 8
Dex 16 = 15 +1
Con 16 = 15 +1
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 18 = 14 +2 +2

Avg Hp: 36 + 24 = 60

Invocations: Book of Ancient Secrets gives you the following but you can always get more rituals (Find Familiar/Identify/Guidance/Mold Earth/Prestidigitation) & Agonizing Blast
Rogue nets you expertise, cunning action, uncanny dodge, sneak attack (3d6) and the perks of being an AT.
Hex nets you plenty of things you already know. Booming Blade/Eldritch Blast/ Armour of Agathys/Shield/Shadow Blade/Mirror Image
Arcane Trickster: Mage Hand/Friend/Minor Illusion/Absorb Elements/Colour Spray/Silent Image/Sleep
Skills (5 of your choice)
I'd personally start Hex for the Wis Save Proficiency, because you're weak in it. Going rogue later will still give you thieve's tools and another skill. Yes that puts you down a skill, but I still think your Wis Proficiency is worth it. These changes make you a lot tougher in combat at the expense of the healing you had in the previous build. It also makes you a lot more variable because of cunning action and expertise. You get to move and do whatever you want much faster. And when you get there, you get to unlimber Shadow Blade and Colour Spray for fantastic melee mayhem.

Just a thought.