Schlock Mercenary VIII: insAIne in the mAInfrAIme

[Rockphed]

Welcome to another exciting installment in the ongoing adventures of Tagon's Toughs. Here we will discuss the hit webcomic Schlock Mercenary! (http://www.schlockmercenary.com)

These days Kaff's father, General Karl Tagon, UNSC (retired) leads the force as Commodore Tagon. Also these days, a corporal has been fake promoted to "Marshal" and is calling the shots (even if only by accident). We also have threads of "insane AI that they left in charge of their base has gone insane", "somebody is blowing things up for no good reason", and "the tiny kittenoids have a dark streak wide enough to fit all the navies of Earth side-by-side in". Somewhere along the way our protagonists will be heros, our antagonists will get a comeuppance, and the two Captain Foxworthys will end up in the same vitality state. Also, there will be some fighting, some people will get eaten by Schlock, and we might see a pretty explosion or two.


Schlock Mercenary (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?63836-Schlock-Mercenary)
Schlock Mercenary (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?80727-Schlock-Mercenary)
Schlock Mercenary thread: The Tub is Full of Happiness Again (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?176728-Schlock-Mercenary-thread-The-Tub-is-Full-of-Happiness-Again)
Schlock Mercenary III: One million years of crowdsourced kitten videos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?251176-Schlock-Mercenary-III-One-million-years-of-crowdsourced-kitten-videos)
Schlock Mercenary IV: Chrome and Punishment (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?335894-Schlock-Mercenary-IV-Chrome-and-Punishment)
Schlock Mercenary V: You're Missing Something Wonderful (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?405068)
Schlock Mercenary VI: Eat It, Kill It, Make Friends With It, Take a Bath in It (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?448314-Schlock-Mercenary-VI-Eat-It-Kill-It-Make-Friends-With-It-Take-a-Bath-in-It)
Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?502918-Schlock-Mercenary-VII-A-T-A-D-Too-Much-Dialogue-These-Days)

Huh, that makes 8 previous threads. Maybe we should fix the numbering.

[Max_Killjoy]

The numbering can start at 0, I guess. It's a digital thing.

[Onyavar]

The numbering can start at 0, I guess. It's a digital thing.

Good answer. Don't change anything.

[Rockphed]

Good answer. Don't change anything.

The first thread died after only 19 posts. I'm pretty sure we can safely ignore it.

[Gnoman]

I'm a little confused. These attacks are still the crazy AI, and the characters are mistaken here, correct?

[Rockphed]

I'm a little confused. These attacks are still the crazy AI, and the characters are mistaken here, correct?

So something keeps firing wormhole guns at annie plants with unerring accuracy. The crazy AI tried shooting 3 of the wormhole guns that we know about (UNS project Zeus, Lota, and Particularly Discontiguous), and missed all of them. Now she is trying to deploy fleets of worships as spotters so she can shoot better. I think this puts the kibosh on thoughts that the shooting was Chinook going crazy before she was shown to be going crazy.

[Douglas]

There are two separate sets of Long Gun shots going on here. One is Chinook trying to destroy everyone else's Long Guns. The other is someone else, previously unidentified, taking out targets seemingly at random, including the Maxim 39 which is what provoked Chinook. Sorlie is talking about the non-Chinook set.

[factotum]

Doesn't really make a lot of sense to me that this is the Pa'anuri "walking their shots", though. They must already know where Petey is or else shooting at him is not a threat, so why are they having to take out random annie plants to try and get closer to their target? Also, that makes it a massive, massive coincidence that the Maxim 39 was destroyed while the Pa'anuri were trying to find someone several thousand light-years away.

If I was trying to shoot Petey just from the annie plants I'd be looking for all those annie plants supporting the floating cities of Paranassus Dom--they're arranged in a much more regular pattern and are far larger than a typical planet's annies.

[PraetorDragoon]

Why would the Pa'anuri, the beings that are hurt by wormholes, use guns that use wormholes?

[smuchmuch]

Doesn't really make a lot of sense to me that this is the Pa'anuri "walking their shots", though. They must already know where Petey is or else shooting at him is not a threat, so why are they having to take out random annie plants to try and get closer to their target?

Knowing the general position of a target is not quite the same thing as being able to shoot it accurately.

Especialy if you're shooting from the distance of another galaxy.

Imagine if you will that you have a target painted with plenty of red dots. And you need to shoot one in particular.
If you shoot from close, it' okay you eaily percieve your one target easily and shoot it. But try getting further and furter rfrom the target. You don't have a zoom of ay kind. At some point your dots are starting to merge together in clouds then in clumps an then a big red blob. Your chances of hooting exacly the dot you wanted with the same accuracy is .. much lower. And the only way you have to know how close you get is someone else who i near the target anf gives you general direction, a 'litte to the left', or 'higher'
So they're just firing again and again, adjusting coordinates and calibrating as they go.

It doesn't help/hurt that we don't know just how fast, accurate and reliable their 'advanced spotters' 'feedback' might be.
It also doesn't hurt that any Anie plant destryed in our galaxy wil beong to some of th peole hey intend to exterminate eentualy, so why wouldn't they try to get as much damage as possible even before getting to Petey ?

Sorlie could of course be ...sorlie mistaken (*ba dum tish*) and it could be someone else behind the shots. but i can see ow he pnuuris would make sense rom what she saw.


Why would the Pa'anuri, the beings that are hurt by wormholes, use guns that use wormholes?

Why would people who generaly don't enjoy being hurt by large amount of kinetic energy go through he disagreement of shooting guns with all the recoil involved ?
Because it hurts the target much much worse and they want said target dead.

Or would the wormhole be more of the loud bang ? ... okay, so it's a prety terrible metaphor but I think ou get the point I was trying to get to here.

I mean wormholes affect Panuuris as seen with teraport sure, but it's not like some instant fatal raction to their presence. When teraport were used to hurt them, those were calculated to do so, otherwise it's more of an inconvenience.
Also it was stated at some point in the comic that the Panuris likely have some bryonic allies , so those would likely the ones using long guns for them.

[Kornaki]

It took me a little bit to digest why the explanation isn't really dumb, but I'm on board. They aren't shooting annie plants with pinpoint accuracy because they can shoot with pinpoint accuracy, they are shooting annie plants with pinpoint accuracy because whenever they fire their gun blindly, complicated physics directs their shot to the closest annie plant to their line of fire. They are hitting targets they didn't necessarily know existed before they fired, and certainly they weren't intentionally trying to shoot.

This also makes the toughs getting hit not much of a coincidence. They fired the gun, hit a ship, spent a while adjusting the gun a very small amount, and it just so happened that the closest annie plant is still the one in that same location. Because they didn't adjust the gun very much.

[factotum]

Except that's totally not how long guns work for anyone else? They don't have to be fired at annie plants, and they *can* miss--as Chinook proved a few strips ago. So we're left with them being able to fire accurately enough to hit a ship's annie plant, but aren't accurate enough to know whether they're shooting at Petey or not, which is just ridiculous.

[halfeye]

Except that's totally not how long guns work for anyone else? They don't have to be fired at annie plants, and they *can* miss--as Chinook proved a few strips ago. So we're left with them being able to fire accurately enough to hit a ship's annie plant, but aren't accurate enough to know whether they're shooting at Petey or not, which is just ridiculous.

Yes, I agree with most of this. I think there's a non-zero chance that the Pa'anuri are the ones who suborned Chinook's sighting, and it was her guns they have been firing without her knowledge, but I still don't see why they're not able to miss annie plants but can't hit anything else.

[The Glyphstone]

Do the Pan'nuri know which ones are Petey's?

[smuchmuch]

Do the Pan'nuri know which ones are Petey's?

No they don't.

That's exactly the basis for Sorlie explanation of why they are 'walking their shots' aka they are shooting at annie plants, (the only thing they can percieve in our galaxy) untill they shoot the right ones, Petey's.

And if I undestand them correctly, Factorum refuses the explanation because to them Petey's Annie plants should be hyper distinctive at first glance (for location, since he's at the galactic core, and organisation, since they should be bigger and orginiased in veryspaial pattern, based reasonss ?).

I respectfully disagree and argue that at the distance they are, (aka another galaxy), it's like trying to disntinguish of a few grains of sands among a sand pile, doesn't matter if it has a particular pattern from up close, theyll look all the same from afar.

[Ibrinar]

If the only thing they can perceive are the annie plants and no stars or anything you still have targets all over the galaxy since the galaxy is approximately round and few people are likely to be outside the galaxy simply picking targets in the center of the cloud will be more likely to be near the galactic core. Unless they somehow can't see where the plants are in relation to each other.

[factotum]

That's exactly the basis for Sorlie explanation of why they are 'walking their shots' aka they are shooting at annie plants, (the only thing they can percieve in our galaxy) untill they shoot the right ones, Petey's.


"Walking your shots" implies that you know where the target is, but aren't sure how to hit it--see Schlock trying to shoot the sniper in Credomar's rotating reference frame for an example; he knew exactly where to shoot, but the path the shots were taking wasn't intuitive so he had to fire, see where the shot landed, move his aiming point and see how that affected the fall of shot, etc.

What you just described is "randomly shoot at the millions of annie plants in the galaxy in the hope you hit the right one", which is most definitely not "walking your shots".

[Gnoman]

There are two separate sets of Long Gun shots going on here. One is Chinook trying to destroy everyone else's Long Guns. The other is someone else, previously unidentified, taking out targets seemingly at random, including the Maxim 39 which is what provoked Chinook. Sorlie is talking about the non-Chinook set.

I see. I assumed that that first long-gun shot was a one-off, with all the others being Chinook's response. I also assumed that the targeting got screwed up after several hits had already been scored, presumably as one of the attempts to corral Chinook.

[Ibrinar]

https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-03-17 here, that were the shots before she started to go on her anti long gun long gun rampage. (Found it by looking for the discussion in the last thread about how unlikely that being random would be.)

[Douglas]

I see. I assumed that that first long-gun shot was a one-off, with all the others being Chinook's response. I also assumed that the targeting got screwed up after several hits had already been scored, presumably as one of the attempts to corral Chinook.
The shot that took out the Maxim 39 was far from the first. It was preceded by the one that blew up the habitat they were trying to help recover, along with several others in other places that had Petey and Putzho trying to figure out the pattern. There were enough earlier shots forming enough of a pattern for them to realize, moments before the Maxim 39 died, that the Toughs might be in danger.

[tonberrian]

I'm guessing that there's a limited number of wormhole-enabled spacetime filaments (or whatever you want to call the space where wormholes can form) between the milky way and Andromeda, and where they wind up isn't clear from the Andromeda end. So they shoot a Long Gun through each one, trying to find the one that ends on Petey.

Why they all end on Annie plants? Maybe the ptus used in the construction terminate wormholes or something. Thus being the "ground" that the Pa'anuri are shooting at. Much as they have found teraports disturbing, they've also gone after every annie plant they've come across as well.

[Gnoman]

The shot that took out the Maxim 39 was far from the first. It was preceded by the one that blew up the habitat they were trying to help recover, along with several others in other places that had Petey and Putzho trying to figure out the pattern. There were enough earlier shots forming enough of a pattern for them to realize, moments before the Maxim 39 died, that the Toughs might be in danger.

I think I'm just having trouble keeping track of things in this format. The way Tayler wrights, it is like reading The Wheel Of Time one paragraph a day.

[Onyavar]

I think I'm just having trouble keeping track of things in this format. The way Tayler wrights, it is like reading The Wheel Of Time one paragraph a day.

An apt comparison.

I'm still waiting on the explanation why they can't tell Petey their news via hypernet. I guess that bit will arrive on Thursday unless there is a scene change, in which case I dunno. Monday? When nobody remembers that was an issue ?

[factotum]

I'm still waiting on the explanation why they can't tell Petey their news via hypernet.

I thought that was exactly what had just been decided in the current strip? To tell him via remote call rather than in person.

[Onyavar]

I thought that was exactly what had just been decided in the current strip? To tell him via remote call rather than in person.

Well, yeah, but if Sorlie had to decide, they'd be going to the PD. I somehow doubt she would forget that among the many possibilities to tell Petey about a threat, a personal visit is not the quickest; and she also wouldn't forget about her responsabilities with the UNS. I am SURE that there is some stuff that would drive her away from the UNS, or some other mission that requires them in the PD.

[keybounce]

So who is doing local spotting for the Pa'anuri?

If we wait for them to get speed of light feedback on their shots, it will take years to adjust their shots.

Since they are adjusting in real time, they must be getting hyper wave transmissions from our galaxy.

Who is giving them information?

[Max_Killjoy]

So who is doing local spotting for the Pa'anuri?

If we wait for them to get speed of light feedback on their shots, it will take years to adjust their shots.

Since they are adjusting in real time, they must be getting hyper wave transmissions from our galaxy.

Who is giving them information?

Good point.

[Rockphed]

Good point.

Would jiggering the aim of the Andromedans help or hurt the situation?

[Max_Killjoy]

Would jiggering the aim of the Andromedans help or hurt the situation?

Given how much of space is empty nothing vs how little of space is anything you don't want hit (or anything at all)... it would help.

[BradWhite]

Say whatever you will about the comic, according to Tayler today is the 18th anniversary, and I don't think he's ever missed an update.

[factotum]

Say whatever you will about the comic, according to Tayler today is the 18th anniversary, and I don't think he's ever missed an update.

I think he did *once*, but that was down to technical issues on the web server that hosts the comic, not his own work ethic.

[The Glyphstone]

And that includes the day that the server hosting site caught on fire.

[Max_Killjoy]

Say whatever you will about the comic, according to Tayler today is the 18th anniversary, and I don't think he's ever missed an update.


I think he did *once*, but that was down to technical issues on the web server that hosts the comic, not his own work ethic.


And that includes the day that the server hosting site caught on fire.

Yeap.

The comic was late.

Once.

Because the server caught on fire, and burned a hole in the side of the building.

He had backup hosting up and running, and the update posted, that same day.

I envy the man's unwavering dedication.

[Rockphed]

Obviously Flinders has missed her true calling. At some point didn't she write all the reports?

[PraetorDragoon]

The unwavering dedication to updates is one of the reasons I still read Schlock Mercenary.

[Rockphed]

The unwavering dedication to updates is one of the reasons I still read Schlock Mercenary.

It does make it significantly harder to break the addiction when our dealer gets our fix in on time every day. :smalltongue:

[Ibrinar]

Them being usually super short helps as well it just takes so little of my time that it would have to annoy me instead of just losing its interesting parts for me to remove it from my feed.

[Drascin]

Honestly, Gugro, for being new at this you're doing okay. You could give Tagon some pointers.

[Rockphed]

Honestly, Gugro, for being new at this you're doing okay. You could give Tagon some pointers.

I'm pretty sure that Captain Tagon was on board with make her a Lieutenant as soon as he heard her threat to Srabben Shipthief.

[Lizard Lord]

Before I was thinking that Gugro would prove herself and latter get promoted to an officer. Especially given the way earlier remark about how Ebby is currently the only non-human in the company equal or above the rank of lieutenant.

I am now thinking she will become a Marshall for real. :smallbiggrin:

[Onyavar]

I am now thinking she will become a Marshall for real. :smallbiggrin:

Someone who once looked at the Tagon 's organigram said: private sector is weird.

[Rockphed]

... comics like today's make me really sad that The Mandate turned into vaporware. I really wanted to slowly fill out my table of organization with the best bits I take from my enemies.

[PraetorDragoon]

At first glance I thought this was another Long Gun attack. :smallconfused:

[Onyavar]

At first glance I thought this was another Long Gun attack. :smallconfused:

Wow, right. Well, we know it wasn't - but will all observers know?

I imagine the UPA command in total confusion right now: An attack by Tagon, an attack by the mysterious longgunner, or just the malfunctioned warheads that blew up? I doubt that they already understand that they were suborned, unless Elf included a real message somewhere instead of just a message.

[Lizard Lord]

Wow, right. Well, we know it wasn't - but will all observers know?

I imagine the UPA command in total confusion right now: An attack by Tagon, an attack by the mysterious longgunner, or just the malfunctioned warheads that blew up? I doubt that they already understand that they were suborned, unless Elf included a real message somewhere instead of just a message.

I think the way it was set up that they would believe it to be malfunctioning warheads, since the Graveplough is the only ship to have reported malfunctioning warheads. If Claw Six or Fangstorm exploded they would realize it was an attack. I don't think the mysterious longgunner is something that is on the UPA's mind even if they did stop to ask who really destroyed the Maxim 39.

[PraetorDragoon]

Wow, right. Well, we know it wasn't - but will all observers know?

I imagine the UPA command in total confusion right now: An attack by Tagon, an attack by the mysterious longgunner, or just the malfunctioned warheads that blew up? I doubt that they already understand that they were suborned, unless Elf included a real message somewhere instead of just a message.

It was more of an observation that confused myself.

The kitties probably don't even know long guns exist, just that something blew up some ships somehow. This particular ships was blown up by malfunctioning warheads. I assume that Tagon/Elf will leverage this next strip, maybe including Tagon's full title "Killer of Battleplates".

[Rockphed]

Does anyone have a link to a chart detailing what the numbers and letters mean? Considering how much he seems to like using it, I should probably add it to the first post.

[Max_Killjoy]

Does anyone have a link to a chart detailing what the numbers and letters mean? Considering how much he seems to like using it, I should probably add it to the first post.

It's from the Planet Mercenary RPG.

If I get a chance I'll see if it's OK to post it here.

[Rockphed]

It's from the Planet Mercenary RPG.

If I get a chance I'll see if it's OK to post it here.

... Okay, so my search fu leveled up and I found your previous post where you shared it:


From the Planet Mercenary RPG: (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/howardtayler/the-planet-mercenary-role-playing-game)




Letter Designation
Length


Z
< 10 m


Y
10–39 m


X
40–99 m


V
100–299 m


T
300–499 m


S
500–999 m


Q
> 999 m







Numerical Designation

Firepower


0, 1, 2
Low. What these ships lack in firepower they often make up for in maneuverability and/or hull strength


3, 4, 5
Medium. These ships tend to include point defenses and minimal STS weaponry (e.g. gunboats, freighters, privateer ships).


6
High. These ships tend to include STS weaponry and systems for defeating defensive countermeasures. This is the minimum rating for a ship considered a threat to capital ships or fortified stations.


7, 8, 9
Critical. Affectionately known as the “MOAR GUNS” classes, these ships tend to include gravy guns and appear war-ready (e.g. battleplates, thunderheads, LOTA).




So the fleet from Sunday's strip has one 300 - 500 meter ship, two 500 - 1000 meter ships, 4 100 - 300 meter ships, and twelve 10 - 40 meter ships. That is mostly what I wanted to figure out. The 0 - 9 for firepower makes sense. The descending letters for larger ships also makes sense. I was just trying to remember where the various breaks were.

[Max_Killjoy]

Guess I did post it before. Man time flies.

[Lateral]

Wait, Primus Pethmawhoko?

[Lizard Lord]

Wait, Primus Pethmawhoko?

The fobott'r's (same race as Gugro and Andy) holy army fleet. The Primus Pethmatoko is the flag ship for one of their spiritual leaders.

[factotum]

Why is the classification system missing R, U and W? Is that explained anywhere?

[Rockphed]

Why is the classification system missing R, U and W? Is that explained anywhere?

I assume that U and W were omitted because they look too much like V. Oddly, I think that Q looks too much like O and should have been skipped. I haven't seen anything explain why it is Q instead of R, but I also didn't back the Kickstarter, so I haven't seen much.

[Max_Killjoy]

I guess we're going to find out if the real local fleet is as sad as the pathetic pirate/militia fleet.

[PraetorDragoon]

I guess we're going to find out if the real local fleet is as sad as the pathetic pirate/militia fleet.

I think they have more self-perservation.

[HandofShadows]

And the last few days has really just been the set up for the popping of a balloon. :smallcool:

This page also reinforces that the main kitty govt is NOT at all on board for what the UPA has been doing.

[halfeye]

Now today's is what I call filler.

[Rockphed]

Now today's is what I call filler.

Yeah, the punchline isn't even funny. Now, we may be seeing a multiple part joke, a la the reveal of the chainsaber slicing corporal Oleo, but I think Howard is just off his game on this strip.

[Onyavar]

Now today's is what I call filler.

Personal pet pieve: People proclaiming "Filler".

I'd only cry filler if a comic is on something that isn't related to the story. Today's strip was picturing Tagon pensive, pondering about his past. Poor punchline, but you can't pssibly put platin in every strip.

(I positively put as pany P-words into my post as possible, for punning practice.)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Now today's is what I call filler.

You call strips with character development filler? That's a weird definition of filler.

GW

[BradWhite]

Agreed. I thought it was showing us that Tagon finally has the AI he needs at his side.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Agreed. I thought it was showing us that Tagon finally has the AI he needs at his side.

I thought that it was showing us a very changed Tagon from the pre-dead one. The old Tagon didn't react to questions that annoyed him by going quiet and more than a little sad. NuTagon is developing a contemplative streak that will probably serve him better than the old "start talking back before you've completed your thoughts" version.

We've been told he is growing into a more competent leader of a larger force, but the moment Tayler tries to show us rather than tell us, we get "filler" claims from the peanut gallery, it seems.

GW

[BradWhite]

There's certainly that as well. The new improved Tagon is far more thoughtful about all things, including matters of life and death. Taylor's been doing that with a lot of the characters as time goes on and the nature of the story expands.

[Gnoman]

It took me way too long to understand what was meant in panel 2, even though it is perfectly obvious in hindsight.

[factotum]

It took me way too long to understand what was meant in panel 2, even though it is perfectly obvious in hindsight.

Speaking about that panel--"I was nearly 550 years old when I met your grandparents". Did we have any inkling before that Cindy had met Tagon's grandparents?

[memnarch]

Speaking about that panel--"I was nearly 550 years old when I met your grandparents". Did we have any inkling before that Cindy had met Tagon's grandparents?

Yep. Took me a bit to find (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2011-11-04), but it's basically the first thing Tagon heard from Cindy.

[Rockphed]

Yep. Took me a bit to find (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2011-11-04), but it's basically the first thing Tagon heard from Cindy.

From a couple strips further along we get the thread title worthy line: Crazy is for people. Robots go defective.

[factotum]

A tetrahedral battleplate? That's...new. I'm not sure how it would be any better than a regular square one with the annie plants at the corners, though...

[Onyavar]

My guess is that it is not better by design, but simply bigger.

I don't know how big it is compared with a regular tricorn BP, but even if the edge lenghts are the same, it is four times larger - and more in case it isn't hollow.

[guttering flame]

Bigger ships is stupid after the directionless new weapons were introduced. They should spread their resources over large area in many small ships instead of a few big new targets. Or is the giant ship a decoy and inside it's hollow with a miniature ship casting a false big illusory smokescreen?

[lesser_minion]

Bigger ships is stupid after the directionless new weapons were introduced. They should spread their resources over large area in many small ships instead of a few big new targets. Or is the giant ship a decoy and inside it's hollow with a miniature ship casting a false big illusory smokescreen?

Most factions in the galaxy don't have long guns, and most of the factions that do have long guns also have carriers and battleships of their own, which would easily deal with any swarm of corvettes.

[Knaight]

Annie plant scaling also supports larger ships.

[factotum]

Annie plant scaling also supports larger ships.

I'm pretty sure the annie plants used in battleplates are already as large as they can be, which is why I don't see the advantage of this design--it still only has four of them, unless there are others hidden inside.

[InvisibleBison]

After today's strip, I really don't understand the Planet Mercenary vessel classification table. I thought a higher number meant a more powerful ship, but today's strip says that a Q7 can beat an S9. The disparity in size might seem like an explanation for this, but on the one hand if size affects power why is it not included in calculating power and on the other hand today's strip also says that an X9 can beat an S9, which indicates that size isn't a relevant part of combat power.

[Onyavar]

Bigger ships is stupid after the directionless new weapons were introduced. They should...

Sure. As far as we know, the widespread of long guns is known for one or two years now, tops. The paradigm shift takes some time to find its way into military projects though.

My headcanon until I learn more : this battletetraeder was designed and subsequently built when the teraport paradigm shift was acknowledged. You know, because we were told that the old flat BPs were built in times when there was only wormhole travel. And military mega projects usually take a few years to lift off.

[PhantomFox]

After today's strip, I really don't understand the Planet Mercenary vessel classification table. I thought a higher number meant a more powerful ship, but today's strip says that a Q7 can beat an S9. The disparity in size might seem like an explanation for this, but on the one hand if size affects power why is it not included in calculating power and on the other hand today's strip also says that an X9 can beat an S9, which indicates that size isn't a relevant part of combat power.

The X9 can beat an S9 because the S9 doesn't have an AI onboard, reducing it to an S4

[lord_khaine]

After today's strip, I really don't understand the Planet Mercenary vessel classification table. I thought a higher number meant a more powerful ship, but today's strip says that a Q7 can beat an S9. The disparity in size might seem like an explanation for this, but on the one hand if size affects power why is it not included in calculating power and on the other hand today's strip also says that an X9 can beat an S9, which indicates that size isn't a relevant part of combat power.

It is a very simple system. The letter indicates the size class of the ship. And the number how effective the ship design is.
Your likely confused because you overlooked the comment about how without a functional AI Murtagts ship is only a S4.

[NEO|Phyte]

The X9 picket is compared to Breath Weapon as it currently is. (S4 due to no AI)
The comparison to a Q7 battleplate is against Breath Weapon at its nominal S9 rank.

[Kornaki]

Also the suggestion is the battle plate is less effective and smaller than the ship that's escorting it, right? At least, the regular q7. I'm confused.

[NEO|Phyte]

Also the suggestion is the battle plate is less effective and smaller than the ship that's escorting it, right? At least, the regular q7. I'm confused.

The Q7 is for a 'modest' tricorn-class battleplate. This new arrival is significantly beefier, what with the suggested Q9+ rating once the PM folks get a look at it to rate it.

[lord_khaine]

Also the suggestion is the battle plate is less effective and smaller than the ship that's escorting it, right? At least, the regular q7. I'm confused.

After looking though all the strips again.. then it seems clear that the size order goes Q>S>X

[lesser_minion]

After today's strip, I really don't understand the Planet Mercenary vessel classification table. I thought a higher number meant a more powerful ship, but today's strip says that a Q7 can beat an S9. The disparity in size might seem like an explanation for this, but on the one hand if size affects power why is it not included in calculating power and on the other hand today's strip also says that an X9 can beat an S9, which indicates that size isn't a relevant part of combat power.

This strip is saying that the Breath Weapon couldn't defeat the UNS picket if it fought it now, and that's specifically because Breath Weapon has been lobotomised. Per book 2 (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2002-03-06), you cannot use weapons and shields together effectively unless you have a tactical AI to co-ordinate them. It's also unclear how many guns they can man, and it's possible that some weapon systems simply cannot be manually operated at all under these circumstances.

As for the fight between Breath Weapon "even at its fiercest" and a tricorn battleplate, traditional battleplates are really a strategic asset rather than a pure warship, with their ability to serve as full-fledged mobile shipyards and bases of operations. That's why they're only a 7 rather than a 9: you could easily fit more firepower on a ship that size. But a tricorn-class is more than ten times the size of Breath Weapon, and still has enough weapons and countermeasures to cover all of the bases -- otherwise, the tricorn would be a Q6 or a Q5.

[Rockphed]

As for the fight between Breath Weapon "even at its fiercest" and a tricorn battleplate, traditional battleplates are really a strategic asset rather than a pure warship, with their ability to serve as full-fledged mobile shipyards and bases of operations. That's why they're only a 7 rather than a 9: you could easily fit more firepower on a ship that size. But a tricorn-class is more than ten times the size of Breath Weapon, and still has enough weapons and countermeasures to cover all of the bases -- otherwise, the tricorn would be a Q6 or a Q5.

I would expect a fight between an unaccompanied battleplate and Breath Weapon to be about even, depending on the objectives of the two parties. However, I would not expect a battleplate to ever be unaccompanied. When Chu was setting himself up as the next swearword on Earth, his plan was to break the city's shields with the battleplate and then allow parasitic craft to go the rest of the way. (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2015-02-12)

[Max_Killjoy]

Kaff might not have made the direct decisions, but he did bring his force together, and build it, serving as example and trainer even when he wasn't directly involved.

He should be proud of what he built.

[HandofShadows]

I think a US Marine officer once said something like "The measure of a good leader is what happens when they are not around to give orders."

[Max_Killjoy]

I think a US Marine officer once said something like "The measure of a good leader is what happens when they are not around to give orders."

Yeah, that's kinda what I was going for.

[Rockphed]

I think a US Marine officer once said something like "The measure of a good leader is what happens when they are not around to give orders."

That is quite the paradigm. I completely agree with it, but I find it surprising nonetheless.

I wonder how much Kaff has been keeping up with the media campaign. Gugro mentioned that they have "Kaff Tagon, Killer of Battleplates" defending them. Shortly thereafter a ship blew up as a message to the rest of the UPA, which might have been attributed to Kaff.

[PhantomFox]

Stupid question: This (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-07-13) strip says there are hundreds of Upplechan slaves in the mines, but all we've seen are F'bottr slaves. Am I missing something obvious?

[Rockphed]

Stupid question: This (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-07-13) strip says there are hundreds of Upplechan slaves in the mines, but all we've seen are F'bottr slaves. Am I missing something obvious?

Uuplechs are significantly shorter than F'bottr. We would mostly see the taller species. Alternatively, whoever is running the media campaign decided to include footage of the Toughs freeing people from their wrappings as they spontaneously awoke and said it was the toughs freeing slaves on Schlemiel 5.

Edit: new comic is up. Question that arises (though not related to the plot): when did Elf cut her hair? I remember her having long, flowing locks. Also, I thought she was blonde (though I am probably confusing her with Kathryn).

[memnarch]

Uuplechs are significantly shorter than F'bottr. We would mostly see the taller species. Alternatively, whoever is running the media campaign decided to include footage of the Toughs freeing people from their wrappings as they spontaneously awoke and said it was the toughs freeing slaves on Schlemiel 5.

Edit: new comic is up. Question that arises (though not related to the plot): when did Elf cut her hair? I remember her having long, flowing locks. Also, I thought she was blonde (though I am probably confusing her with Kathryn).

RE: haircut. About a year and a half ago (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2016-12-25). Just after Tagon II came back at the start of book 17 as part of showing things have changed while Tagon was being restored. Also worth noting is the the marriage also mentioned in that comic.

[Rockphed]

Okay, so I found an early appearance of Elf (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2002-02-27), and she has reddish hair then, so I must have made up the blonde bit.

[Thomas Cardew]

Okay, so I found an early appearance of Elf (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2002-02-27), and she has reddish hair then, so I must have made up the blonde bit.

Not entirely. It's significantly more blonde here (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2009-03-28) and here (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2009-01-27). It's bounced between blonde and red/orange-ish over the course of the strip.

Does anyone else find the current run a bit ... cheap? Sunday's in particular. I compare it to the hot chainsaw through butter (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2005-06-22) arc, but I can't help but feel I had more fun with that one. Both feature blindingly stupid enemies getting stomped but apparently the current set is so useless that Elf can singlehandedly destroy the fleet by herself with No less ammo. It just feels ... for lack of a better term... pointless? Tension-less?

Or maybe it's just the ex post facto reveal, we're told she did something after the fact instead of seeing any of it. It would be one thing if we'd seen her deliberately store them or if the question of limited ammo had been raised at all during the fight. Instead, the tlumphs just appeared in the saddlebags when she got back to town. And by the way, I did it all without ammo because I'm awesome.

[PraetorDragoon]

Its just a lot more.... talking recently. Less action, more politiking

[Ibrinar]

I think the writer isn't into drawing long fight scenes anymore or something but many conflicts in the comic are still handled via violence it just mostly happens off screen now, which is a bit of a weird mix and considering it is a comic about a merc company a shift in focus. We just had someone solo several ships but how much of that did we actually see?

[factotum]

We already knew the Toughs massively outclassed the Uuplechan Patriot Armada when they took down Shiplord Srabben and his crew, so it's not really a surprise Elf did the job so quickly.

[Thomas Cardew]

Their ships outclassed but were still threatened by the militia, at least that's what I take real damage (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2017-11-12) to mean. Then Maxim 39 gets blown up by long gun fire and Breath Weapon leaves to deal with the crazy AI. Which leaves the Toughs with inferior firepower (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-03-07) which apparently means a single hard suit can board and destroy the enemy fleet. With no ammo. Like I said it feels unearned, either it was threat inflation before or it's overly effective plot armor now.

Edit: I think this strip illustrates my point a little better. (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-06-26) The UPA fleet is supposed to be more than match for just Cynthetic Certianity but it's overwhelmed by single soldier? Where's the internal gravy? If they want her alive, which they didn't. She's still a single soldier, with a few micro annie plants, well within range of overwhelming force. (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2008-12-10)

[HandofShadows]

Elf is a highly trained and experienced soldier who is very well equipped and the UPA didn't know about her. If the UPA fleet had known about her they would have killed her (after loosing a *lot* of people). But the UPA didn't know about her. The UPA are more or less pirates pretending to be soldiers. They ignore things they shouldn't. They make simple mistakes. They are arrogant and stupid. Also there s Schlock. An angry Schlock who is able to produce a never agent that disables/kills on contact. And the UPA didn't know about him either.

[Willie the Duck]

Like I said it feels unearned, either it was threat inflation before or it's overly effective plot armor now.

You are not wrong, but that is undoubtedly deliberate. This is basically a Die Hard plot--instead of 'an army of trained and well-equipped cops are useless, but single cop John McClane will succeed because of his manly grit' it is 'a bunch of well-equipped Toughs with (at the beginning of the situation) superior firepower and tactically brilliant AIs and officers are useless, but one grieving Elf and Schlock will succeed (without ammo) because reasons.'

In both cases, there is a 'unknown quantity' factor working in their favor, as HandofShadows points out. It is still highly unrealistic, but the comic isn't wholly realistic. The comic always has played the line between the genre motif's of war movies style 'the best army is one where soldiers are good soldiers and will succeed through AmericanTagon's Tough's superior tactics, equipment, and grit,' and action movies style 'individual heroism and self-reliance wins the day.'

[Rockphed]

Back when the action first started, Kevyn said "any of our Heavies could clear that ship". I think the biggest obstacle was always getting the heavy on the ship, not clearing it once aboard. Schlock mostly cleared the first ship by eating the kittenoids and then developing a neural poison when that was taking too long. Elf cleared it the rest of the way after getting her frag-suit aboard. The second ship she captured by hacking and arming their missiles.

[keybounce]

We now have parts 1, 2, and 3 marked.

Part 2 started with the AI avatars considering hte exploding ships.

Part 3 started with the oddball colorings in the insane membrane. Mainframe.

[Rockphed]

We now have parts 1, 2, and 3 marked.

Part 2 started with the AI avatars considering hte exploding ships.

Part 3 started with the oddball colorings in the insane membrane. Mainframe.

And I saw Howard mention writing the prologue of the next book. Do you think we are going to get another action sequence in this one? While I approve of the action sequences with Elf clearing the ships and the ripping off of pirate arms, I think we need another sequence to finish out the book.

[Thomas Cardew]

Doesn't look like it. I'm quoting his blog post in the spoiler but basically 1 week left in this book.


I began creating Schlock Mercenary in March of 2000. That’s 18.25 years ago. It’s 91% of two decades. It’s longer than half my children have been alive. It’s longer than a lot of things.

Book 18, Mandatory Failure, is wrapping up. A week from today we’ll see the first panels of Book 19, A Function of Firepower, and as currently outlined that book should run for about as long as this one did. Sometime in or about the early summer of 2019, Book 20 will begin. That book, which will run for about the length of a book, is outlined in a manner that should wrap things up satisfactorily. The twenty-year-long (by then, anyway) Schlock Mercenary mega-arc will draw to a close.

It might be useful to consider books 18, 19, and 20 as a trilogy, especially in light of the fact that trilogy-style is the way I’m writing them. Book 18 will end with some unresolved threads, which Book 19 will pick up. Book 19 will will also end with some unresolved threads, which Book 20 will pick up.

As to what comes after Book 20, I remain firm in my twin commitments to 1) keep making Schlock Mercenary and 2) not launch another twenty-year story arc. We can talk about those plans in a couple of years. For now I have some comics to ink.

While I'm excited to see the end of dark matter saga, I'm a little worried about it being satisfactory as he says due to the last two books in particular. I've enjoyed them far less than the earlier entries in the series. And story arc wise they seem to be... not quite repeating but maybe retreading... the role of those books in establishing the threat/role of the dark matter beasties. I'll wait till the end to judge but I'm far less optimistic about the end of the story now than I was at say Delegates and Delegation or Big Dumb Objects.

[Onyavar]

Snip

1) keep making Schlock Mercenary and

/Snip

I was looking forward for some closure, actually. Some of the best authors know when to leave a story behind.

[tyckspoon]

Snip

1) keep making Schlock Mercenary and

/Snip

I was looking forward for some closure, actually. Some of the best authors know when to leave a story behind.

It's possible he'll be done with Schlock and the Toughs; he's left all kinds of threads hanging around that could make for adventures that don't need to involve inter-galactic cosmopolitics and ruminations about what it means to be an immortal sentient. We could see stories about Shep and his mob-boss mom or Shaefer's Shifters (sp) or maybe find out what Lunesby got up to, just to name a few.

[Drascin]

I think Gugro is acing this exam, guys. Tagon senior is going to need to keep this guy in the officer payroll for real this time.

[PhantomFox]

You sure? It seems like he's going to be another Sammy (Tagony?) that splits off from the main watch to do his own thing.

[Onyavar]

I think Gugro will decline that offer for now until her clan is in savety. She doesn't strike me as the person who will leap at that opportunity right away. And the greatmother strikes me as the person who will expect that reluctancy from her successor.

Howard described the situation as 'pope and italian grandma'
But this is more like grandma is currently running a hospital right now and doesn't have any time for pope shenanigans, because look, these people here are sick or injured, so unless you have brought some medicine and bandaids, you're standing in the way.

[factotum]

It's possible he'll be done with Schlock and the Toughs

Yeah, I'm more thinking that he's going to continue to set stories in this universe rather than follow the same old characters.

[Rockphed]

Yeah, I'm more thinking that he's going to continue to set stories in this universe rather than follow the same old characters.

They might even contain some of the current characters (like Schlock).

[Drascin]

You sure? It seems like he's going to be another Sammy (Tagony?) that splits off from the main watch to do his own thing.

Well, I posted that yesterday. And hey, I was right that Gugro was acing the exam and thoroughly impressing Kathlumira. I just didn't realize acing the exam also came with a job offer.

[Onyavar]

If anyone is interested in the meaning of the footnote of todays strip (2018-07-21), you should read the footnote of strip 2017-09-23 again.

You will thus find out that it is not important .

[Rockphed]

If anyone is interested in the meaning of the footnote of todays strip (2018-07-21), you should read the footnote of strip 2017-09-23 again.

You will thus find out that it is not important .

I was wondering where the bullets had been mentioned (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2017-09-23). Thanks for pointing it out.

[halfeye]

If anyone is interested in the meaning of the footnote of todays strip (2018-07-21), you should read the footnote of strip 2017-09-23 again.

You will thus find out that it is not important .

Yet. It could be a brick joke in progress.

[The Glyphstone]

Did he just wrap up the angry-gods plotline offscreen while we were focused on the Uplechan plot?

[factotum]

Did he just wrap up the angry-gods plotline offscreen while we were focused on the Uplechan plot?

Apparently so, and it's beginning to become an annoying habit of his. How much of the original Eina-Afa arc was resolved offscreen and mentioned offhand in a panel? Also, it appears that the Putzho we saw on Eina-Afa was a copy of the original, who is apparently working for Petey...I don't think that was ever explained at any point!

I'm beginning to wonder if Howard is just setting up these plots far too complicated in the first place, and is running out of space while trying to resolve them.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I'm beginning to wonder if Howard is just setting up these plots far too complicated in the first place, and is running out of space while trying to resolve them.

I think the reason is that he feels the need to make each plot bigger than the previous, but they have long since become way too big for the actual main characters of his comic, the Toughs, to resolve, so he sets them up and then has them be resolved by Petey while we get to see some minor d-level plot that is within the Tough's capabilities play out.

GW

[Rockphed]

I think the reason is that he feels the need to make each plot bigger than the previous, but they have long since become way too big for the actual main characters of his comic, the Toughs, to resolve, so he sets them up and then has them be resolved by Petey while we get to see some minor d-level plot that is within the Tough's capabilities play out.

GW

What annoys me about this one is that, rather than showing what happened during the recap, we just get to see AI heads talking, which is nowhere near as fun.

[Max_Killjoy]

Apparently so, and it's beginning to become an annoying habit of his. How much of the original Eina-Afa arc was resolved offscreen and mentioned offhand in a panel? Also, it appears that the Putzho we saw on Eina-Afa was a copy of the original, who is apparently working for Petey...I don't think that was ever explained at any point!

I'm beginning to wonder if Howard is just setting up these plots far too complicated in the first place, and is running out of space while trying to resolve them.

It really hit the wall with this one -- WAY too much going on in WAY too many places. Even when we do see it all, it's often spread out across weeks or months apart with other things between.

[smuchmuch]

Th problem is that stuff icluding the AI doing hacking Ais hing is quite difficult to represent except trhough more dialogue. How exactly would you have shown t hapening except though the Ais talking betwen themsleves, ad tellin what they aredoig, which, is exactly whatthe current strip is.

[The Glyphstone]

There's always the visual metaphor route, like when Schlock fended off the invasive proto-RED nannies with his 'metaphorical' plasma cannon immune system.

https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2007-08-18

[Rockphed]

Th problem is that stuff icluding the AI doing hacking Ais hing is quite difficult to represent except trhough more dialogue. How exactly would you have shown t hapening except though the Ais talking betwen themsleves, ad tellin what they aredoig, which, is exactly whatthe current strip is.

I don't mind the "wrap up what the AIs were doing after they are done" bit. I mind that we don't even get token visual metaphors showing Chinook getting trapped in a chunk of infosphere as an army of stormtrooper-oafan-AIs marches past.

[keybounce]

Ok, we have an 11+ year Chekhov's gun facing us next book:

https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2007-09-02

[Rockphed]

Ok, we have an 11+ year Chekhov's gun facing us next book:

https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2007-09-02

Which part of that do you think is still hanging over us?

[keybounce]

The part where every race that now has effective immortality will go through everything that Vog's race went through.

[Thomas Cardew]

Th problem is that stuff icluding the AI doing hacking Ais hing is quite difficult to represent except trhough more dialogue. How exactly would you have shown t hapening except though the Ais talking betwen themsleves, ad tellin what they aredoig, which, is exactly whatthe current strip is.

Except he's done 'hard to show' things in the past. With a lot more detail, generally relying on puns or comedy to carry the strip. The whole "kevin-spirit-guide-this-is-in-your-head-arc" comes to mind, for example. We were getting pretty continuous updates on what exactly was going on there. Or the Tagi going mad sequence. That did an excellent job of communicating what was going on, and reminding you as the strip went on. And we got to SEE the sequence AND the resolution. Tagii, going mad, getting control back, killing the battleplate, killing thurl, then 'dieing', while the crew watches and interacts. Exaggerating for effect, but the way that sequence would go now is, Tagii goes mad, gets control in 1 strip, kills the battleplate in 1 strip 40 strips later, and kills Thurl in a strip 20 strips later, and then 3 pages into the epilogue we find out tagii died off screen to a killswitch.

[Max_Killjoy]

The part where every race that now has effective immortality will go through everything that Vog's race went through.

So every "race's" memory works just like that of Vog's "race"?

[factotum]

The part where every race that now has effective immortality will go through everything that Vog's race went through.

The problem is, it took two or three regular lifetimes before Vog's species began to go insane, so that Chekov's Gun isn't going to fire for a good 100 years or more, at least as far as humans are concerned. What makes you think there's going to be a 100 year time skip before the next book?

[keybounce]

Ahh, but what about book 21 after this concluding trilogy finishes up?

[HandofShadows]

Not fast enough...? :smalleek::smalleek::smalleek:

[factotum]

Not fast enough...? :smalleek::smalleek::smalleek:

The implication is that there's an immediate threat to the inhabitants of the station which can only be resolved by copying them into the infosphere? Presumably we'll find out what that is tomorrow.

[Thomas Cardew]

Mark me down as cautiously optimistic, this is the story I've been interested in reading about since we first went to the can full of sky.

[Rockphed]

I think I finally understand why so many are aggravated with the last couple books: Howard is trying to tell parallel stories in parallel. Consider the last book versus Massively Parallel; in Massively Parallel he told several stories that were contemporaneous without bouncing between them. Well, we bounced a little with the various "What would Schlock Do?" questions that Thurl fielded, but those were more foreshadowing and foreboding than bouncing between narratives.

In Mandatory Failure, imagine if we just reordered the comics. If we kept everything the same up until the Maxim 39 exploded, then followed the adventures (and misadventures) of the Breath Weapon until they got taken by the Schumaker Levy. Then we flip over to follow the groups that remained in Uuplech. We follow them until their story is resolved. Then we have Puutzo prime show up. Then we see the various things inside the Eina-afa info sphere. Then we see the last couple epilogue strips. I feel like that would be a much more satisfying way to follow the story, at least as it was being posted.

[Thomas Cardew]

I do agree that would help. But I'm also just frustrated with some of the stories in general. I didn't find some them particularly compelling or interesting. I realize Howard was exploring a lot of his themes he's introduced before with immortality etc, as well as setting up more long term arcs. But I said before I would have been much more interested in reading a far more detailed follow up to the 'someone tried to start a civil war' then we wrapped it up off screen. Imagine if instead of the pirate arc and Tagon had to go through the same sequence when hunting down the culprits from civil war arc. Nothing changes in the overall meta, but we could get a lot more information and satisfaction in dealing with those opponents than with a random group of pirates.

I'm going to call foul if everyone is dead just to raise the stakes. If Petey had time to make a meat space comment to Kevin he had time to terraport the cities to random location. Space is big afterall. He can lose control of the generator since that's the narrative function that needs to happen.

[factotum]

Presumably we'll find out what that is tomorrow.

Or not, as the case may be. Yeah, I'm with Rockphed here--Howard is juggling too many story balls at once, and when something really interesting looks like it's about to happen, he switches to another POV. If the idea is to build tension in the reader, it isn't working, it's just building frustration instead!

[keybounce]

The comment about Massively Parallel is interesting. The "norm" in story telling is to interweave all the various threads. You see it in TV shows where the A/B plots switch more than a TV switch does. You see it in normal novels where switching 3 or 4 plotlines around to show what's happening at the same time is the norm.

Doing a full treatment of A, and then rewinding to deal with B? Generally only happens when you want to have A and B have a really messy intertwined conclusion.

[Max_Killjoy]

I'm going to call foul if everyone is dead just to raise the stakes. If Petey had time to make a meat space comment to Kevin he had time to terraport the cities to random location. Space is big afterall. He can lose control of the generator since that's the narrative function that needs to happen.



Same here.

[Thomas Cardew]

Well, that's an encouraging sign. But we'll see what happens from here.

[Kaptin Keen]

Eh - I'm pretty sure the .. andromeda pan'auri, is that the name?! .. have nothing to do with this.

[factotum]

Eh - I'm pretty sure the .. andromeda pan'auri, is that the name?! .. have nothing to do with this.

What makes you so sure? Everyone in-strip is telling us that the target was Petey, and Chinook is out of the picture now. Who else would have the tech and the motivation to do this? I suppose Lota has the capability, but as far as we know he has no reason to do it--not to mention that he would probably know where Petey is and wouldn't need to walk his shots like the culprit here did.

[halfeye]

What makes you so sure? Everyone in-strip is telling us that the target was Petey, and Chinook is out of the picture now. Who else would have the tech and the motivation to do this? I suppose Lota has the capability, but as far as we know he has no reason to do it--not to mention that he would probably know where Petey is and wouldn't need to walk his shots like the culprit here did.

Yeah, and walking the shots all over the Milky Way was pretty random for anyone within it, not that it's yet been explained why it makes any sense for an outsider.

[Ibrinar]

We did get a "complicated math" hand wave. So supposedly it makes sense to some characters.

[Kaptin Keen]

What makes you so sure? Everyone in-strip is telling us that the target was Petey, and Chinook is out of the picture now. Who else would have the tech and the motivation to do this? I suppose Lota has the capability, but as far as we know he has no reason to do it--not to mention that he would probably know where Petey is and wouldn't need to walk his shots like the culprit here did.

So I'm the only one who thinks it's Petey doing the shooting?

Not that I have any shred of a clue why he'd do that. If I absolutely had to guess, I'd say he's ramping up to getting rid of the competition - some contrieved plot to find and eliminate any AI with the potential to threaten him. Why he'd sacrifice his own cities? Hm, to divert blame, and possibly to enlist the aid of the various organics.

But I'm shooting entirely blind here, obviously. All except for that remark 'tell me more about this timing' and the raised eyebrow.

[bbgun06]

So I'm the only one who thinks it's Petey doing the shooting?

For him to do that is entirely out of character based on everything he's done to this point.


But I'm shooting entirely blind here, obviously. All except for that remark 'tell me more about this timing' and the raised eyebrow.

I think that Petey is just pointing out the irony of the next shot coming at that exact moment.

[factotum]

I think that Petey is just pointing out the irony of the next shot coming at that exact moment.

Yeah, that's Petey saying "Fascinating, why didn't you tell me this *before* several hundred million people got vapourised just now?". I never got the slightest inkling from it that it was Petey doing the shooting himself.

[PraetorDragoon]

Yeah, I don't think Petey is the one doing the shooting. But the only thing that is making me think "Pa'anuri" is that they are the only named group that could reasonably do it, and the other option would be "unmentioned group we never heard of before"

[Max_Killjoy]

Sorley and Kevin both reached the same conclusion about the Andromedan Pa'anuri "walking their shots" independently.

[Kaptin Keen]

'No no - this is not a trap. Please come without armor, weapons or ships. You're my oldest bestest friends.'

Cause protagonists never make good villains - especially not towards the very end of a series.

[PhantomFox]

Nah, just is "Remember Zoojack? Well, this is just like this, but now they can shoot at us from the next galaxy over"

[factotum]

'No no - this is not a trap. Please come without armor, weapons or ships. You're my oldest bestest friends.'

Cause protagonists never make good villains - especially not towards the very end of a series.

You really seem to have it in for Petey right now? Not only is he shooting his own cities, he's now leading the Toughs into a trap, because he has nothing better to do with his time, what with the Pa'anuri not being a threat anymore...for reasons?

[Kaptin Keen]

You really seem to have it in for Petey right now? Not only is he shooting his own cities, he's now leading the Toughs into a trap, because he has nothing better to do with his time, what with the Pa'anuri not being a threat anymore...for reasons?

Petey is fictional, I have nothing against him.

A city is destroyed before his eyes, and his only reaction is to be snarky. If you don't find that suspicious, then ...

'You're my best friends in all the world - do you mind coming somewhere unspecified, for unspecified reasons, and please leave your weapons and armor and ships behind ... trust me, it's fine!'

If you're still not suspicious, I can only say this: Since time out of memory, whenever anyone ever asks the protagonist to leave behind their means of protection ... there are only two options: They are being betrayed, or we're meant to think they'll be betrayed.

I can guarantee you this much: I'm right - or wrong. One of those two. 100%. :p

[Onyavar]

Well, when he was interacting with the monstrous lost archive, I had a certain fear Petey would slowly turn murderous.

But nothing happened, and the entire time, he is shown as a very stable persona. Can't he be benevolent and snarky?

And being a highly functional AI, he already took steps to tera-evacuate his entire orbital framework (probably into some sort ot Buuthandi where no annie plants are needed), right the moment when he spoke that comment to alt-Kevin.

And, Petey (as well as Tayler) really LIKES to be a "big-surprise-revealing jerk". I am one myself: in conversation often dragging out the point of my meaning until it is no longer funny. Getting the kicks out of shocking others with strange witticisms that only make sense after the big reveal.

The right thing of Petey to say would have been: "Tagon and friends: We are under attack by the Pa'anuri. You remember Zoojack? So, I am taking precautions, and these are..."
Instead, he goes: "Hey friends, would you please do some unreasonable things, I am waiting for your hilarious reactions to my demands, which will provide a good joke every day and make you look like fools. Then expect me to fully explain everything within the next weeks, you will understand it all in hindsight."

That's so common in Tayler's storytelling that it's already aggravating: The reading audience already knows that there is a badass protagonist who has a shocking truth to tell. The reading audience either knows or has long ago correctly guessed the truth (like Pa'anuri are bombing the milkyway), and it all knows about the hidden qualities of the protagonist, anyway (e.g. Elf or Schlock).
There is no fun in reading such a story where you already know all the stuff it's about - unless the author is presenting a stooge audience that can and will be flattened by the most dramatic and show-off re-reveal of that same truth.
("Mr. Satan" from Dragonball Z is such a stooge - thinking he is the greatest and knows all, but proven wrong twenty times in short order. And we find it hilarious, until that joke has been also ridden to death.)

[Kaptin Keen]

Can't he be benevolent and snarky?

Sure. His complete lack of surprise or any other significant reaction could mean nothing at all. It certainly doesn't have to be yes, organic - tell me more about your interesting theory about these attacks. Tell me all about how clever you are.


he already took steps to tera-evacuate his entire orbital framework

You don't know that. At all. What you know is that Petey said so. He'd hardly say the opposite.

Oh and .... why would he destroy them? Because he's done uploading the inhabitants. Maybe. Again, just pulling that out of my hat, but it's certainly a theme.

[Max_Killjoy]

Well, when he was interacting with the monstrous lost archive, I had a certain fear Petey would slowly turn murderous.

But nothing happened, and the entire time, he is shown as a very stable persona. Can't he be benevolent and snarky?

And being a highly functional AI, he already took steps to tera-evacuate his entire orbital framework (probably into some sort ot Buuthandi where no annie plants are needed), right the moment when he spoke that comment to alt-Kevin.

And, Petey (as well as Tayler) really LIKES to be a "big-surprise-revealing jerk". I am one myself: in conversation often dragging out the point of my meaning until it is no longer funny. Getting the kicks out of shocking others with strange witticisms that only make sense after the big reveal.

The right thing of Petey to say would have been: "Tagon and friends: We are under attack by the Pa'anuri. You remember Zoojack? So, I am taking precautions, and these are..."
Instead, he goes: "Hey friends, would you please do some unreasonable things, I am waiting for your hilarious reactions to my demands, which will provide a good joke every day and make you look like fools. Then expect me to fully explain everything within the next weeks, you will understand it all in hindsight."

That's so common in Tayler's storytelling that it's already aggravating: The reading audience already knows that there is a badass protagonist who has a shocking truth to tell. The reading audience either knows or has long ago correctly guessed the truth (like Pa'anuri are bombing the milkyway), and it all knows about the hidden qualities of the protagonist, anyway (e.g. Elf or Schlock).
There is no fun in reading such a story where you already know all the stuff it's about - unless the author is presenting a stooge audience that can and will be flattened by the most dramatic and show-off re-reveal of that same truth.
("Mr. Satan" from Dragonball Z is such a stooge - thinking he is the greatest and knows all, but proven wrong twenty times in short order. And we find it hilarious, until that joke has been also ridden to death.)


As much as I like Howard's work, you've really hit on something here.


(As an aside, the stuff like "Mr Satan" was part of what made DBZ so unwatchable for me.)

[keybounce]

"This doesn't have annie plants" :-)

[Rockphed]

"This doesn't have annie plants" :-)

"I'm banning it for completely unrelated reasons." How many nice, pleasant towns has Schlock destroyed with that thing?

[Thomas Cardew]

"I'm banning it for completely unrelated reasons." How many nice, pleasant towns has Schlock destroyed with that thing?

Like Two. Tops. Nice and pleasant don't pay well.

[factotum]

"This doesn't have annie plants" :-)

So...how exactly is it powered if it's not via annie plants? :smallconfused:

[Rockphed]

So...how exactly is it powered if it's not via annie plants? :smallconfused:

I seem to recall that it has a fusion reactor that it vents to provide the plasma stream.

[Thomas Cardew]

So...how exactly is it powered if it's not via annie plants? :smallconfused:


Microfusion plant.

http://schlockmercenary.wikia.com/wiki/Plasma_Cannon

[Kaptin Keen]

Not a single one of you is convinced yet, right?

He's pulling this entire explanation straight out of his rearside - and Cindy is suspicious, but doesn't know enough about Petey's capabilities to be sure.

[Rockphed]

Not a single one of you is convinced yet, right?

He's pulling this entire explanation straight out of his rearside - and Cindy is suspicious, but doesn't know enough about Petey's capabilities to be sure.

Oddly, I am accepting Petey's explanation at face value. Would you care to explain why you aren't?

[keybounce]

Sorry Petey, I do knot no how that works.

Seriously. 21 minutes, and most of that spent unrolling the spool. Unless there's something going on I don't know, you need to start at the center of mass, and spin out thread in both directions otherwise your whole system will move.

And the time to bring the spin up to speed? Constructing/powering/doing something with the engine that spins the city/counterweight pair?

21 days seems more reasonable than 21 minutes.

[Kaptin Keen]

Oddly, I am accepting Petey's explanation at face value. Would you care to explain why you aren't?

Why. Well, because he doesn't even flinch when that first city died. Take if you will a moment to consider the contrast between the reactions of Petey, and ... what his name again? Petey knew, very well, because he was the one killing that city. That's why.

Everything we've seen after that - ask you self why we're seing this? Why is it relevant to show Tagon teraported - naked, no less - to an undisclosed location? Why is it relevant to see Petey explain to Cindy how he teraported the cities, and provides them with power via 'counterweight fusion'?

Tagon is in a trap, and Cindy is being given a credible excuse to doubt Petey's word - so that later, when Cindy is somehow involved in freeing Tagon, it's not a complete surprise.

Of course I'm guessing here - going ever further out a tangent of my own making. I'm pretty sure Petey's lack of reaction to the destruction of his city is significant. The rest is pure speculation. And more speculative, the further I get.

[Lizard Lord]

A.I.'s have freaking super brains that analyze things in nano seconds, and Petey is one of, if not the, smartest and most advanced A.I. in the galaxy. Petey very well could have gone through all the stages of grief and reached acceptance by the time he said that line. Also I am pretty sure the real reason for it is because Taylor still has that policy of always ending a page with a joke.

[Onyavar]

Why. Well, because he doesn't even flinch when that first city died. Take if you will a moment to consider the contrast between the reactions of Petey, and ... what his name again? Petey knew, very well, because he was the one killing that city. That's why.


I don't believe that for a second. Petey has always taken safety measures to not become a crazy or malevolent AI. There are issues with manipulation and free will of his human subjects, but Petey doesn't do evil, he has proven that time and again.

If he didn't flinch visibly there, it's probably because he can revive any victims of the attack, and because he was already furiously thinking on countermeasures.

The conversion of Spindle Cities towards Pendulum Rotators probably didn't take too long because he had planned in advance for emergencies like this. I wouldn't put it past him to construct Buuthandis and Dyson Spheres and Matryoshka Brains of his own design. Just in case he needs a place to hide galactic civilization. And if he hadn't done it before the All-Star was revealed, he probably started projects like that when he learned of them. (And he builds quick)

[Rockphed]

Why. Well, because he doesn't even flinch when that first city died. Take if you will a moment to consider the contrast between the reactions of Petey, and ... what his name again? Petey knew, very well, because he was the one killing that city. That's why.

Petey has been a deadpan snarker practically since we met him. If you pay attention, the city that got zapped was the one under construction, so there might not have been anyone aboard. For pretty much everything else, I think we are going to have to disagree. Where you see evidence of some nefarious plot on Petey's part, I...I don't.

[factotum]

If you pay attention, the city that got zapped was the one under construction

I hadn't actually noticed that, but good catch--the city that got long gunned was clearly incomplete. That doesn't actually disprove Kaptin Keen's theory, but it *does* mean that Petey didn't callously slaughter millions of people if it *was* him that took the shot.

On an unrelated note--is it weird that all I can think about at the moment is what the tensile strength of Petey's "string" has to be in order to support the entire weight of a city spinning around like that?

[Willie the Duck]

If he didn't flinch visibly there, it's probably because he can revive any victims of the attack, and because he was already furiously thinking on countermeasures.

Petey has billions of instances of himself running and thinks billions of times faster than humans do. Outside of 'in virtual space' conversations, he should only flinch when he needs to telegraph to his human conversation partners that he was surprised. That really didn't seem necessary, since alt-Kevyn wasn't even remotely looking at him at the moment.


On an unrelated note--is it weird that all I can think about at the moment is what the tensile strength of Petey's "string" has to be in order to support the entire weight of a city spinning around like that?

Not at all. Certainly I was thinking that that would be the first point-of-failure the next battle/terrorist act near one of those things will exploit. However, this is a universe with space elevators, so we know they have material of a similar capacity.

[Rockphed]

Not at all. Certainly I was thinking that that would be the first point-of-failure the next battle/terrorist act near one of those things will exploit. However, this is a universe with space elevators, so we know they have material of a similar capacity.

They built a space elevator on Earth's moon. I think you can do that with bog-standard steel.

[Kaptin Keen]

It's really not a question of how fast Petey is.

It's a matter of the author showing, deliberately, that Petey isn't fazed in the very least by the loss of one of his cities.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

They built a space elevator on Earth's moon. I think you can do that with bog-standard steel.

No, I believe it would take Kevlar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_space_elevator#Fabrication) for the moon space elevator. Still, I'm sure PTUs are more than enough to build a tether for the cities.

Grey Wolf

[Rockphed]

No, I believe it would take Kevlar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_space_elevator#Fabrication) for the moon space elevator. Still, I'm sure PTUs are more than enough to build a tether for the cities.

Grey Wolf

That link is for a lunar elevator that stretches to Earth/Moon L1 or L2. In Schlock Luna has had its rotation spun up to a 24 hour day.

[Knaight]

No, I believe it would take Kevlar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_space_elevator#Fabrication) for the moon space elevator. Still, I'm sure PTUs are more than enough to build a tether for the cities.

Grey Wolf

Or polyethylene, according to that link, which is just one more example of how weird the sheer magnitude of material changes depending on molecular weight are.

[Lizard Lord]

We just don't see surprise on Petey's face when the panel is angeled that way. When the explosion happened we see from Petey's silhouette that his arms are spread out when both right before and right after they were folded behind his back. This explosion did, indeed, catch Petey off guard.

[Kaptin Keen]

Aha! I was wrong =)

How amusing, and also slightly disappointing.

[Mando Knight]

So, why would the Psychobear Datacruncher make Kevyn run the numbers on teraporting the city into spin-gravity mode?

[factotum]

So, why would the Psychobear Datacruncher make Kevyn run the numbers on teraporting the city into spin-gravity mode?

Because Kevyn invented the thing in the first place and has more knowledge than anyone else alive about how it all works? Heck, given how brilliant Kevyn is supposed to be, he might have come up with the spin idea himself before Petey ever thought of it.

[McDouggal]

Prediction: Petey dies during schlolcktoberfest.

[Rockphed]

Prediction: Petey dies during schlolcktoberfest.

Schlocktoberfest has been discontinued due to storytelling creep. The last one, where Tagon was feeling old, was particularly boring.

[Onyavar]

I count four of these ultra-fancy new battletetraeders. Looks like someone could really use all these chopped up Oafan hulls. And first thing they did was jumpstart a massive armament.

About the last schlocktoberfest, I think there is a special horror to getting old. Most people only understand it too late, and aside from the worrying, yes, it is boring, too.

[factotum]

I still don't see the point of this new battleplate design. Given that we know there's a limit to how big annie plants can be, these ones are *less* powerful than the pentagonal battleplates we've seen before--their only advantage is having much greater internal volume, and I'm struggling to see how that *is* an advantage.

[Rockphed]

I still don't see the point of this new battleplate design. Given that we know there's a limit to how big annie plants can be, these ones are *less* powerful than the pentagonal battleplates we've seen before--their only advantage is having much greater internal volume, and I'm struggling to see how that *is* an advantage.

They could have 5 annie plants, with 1 in the middle. Possibly they take less materials to build than a similarly outfitted flat design. Maybe Howard just got tired of drawing flat starships.

[lesser_minion]

I still don't see the point of this new battleplate design. Given that we know there's a limit to how big annie plants can be, these ones are *less* powerful than the pentagonal battleplates we've seen before--their only advantage is having much greater internal volume, and I'm struggling to see how that *is* an advantage.

Within the last few years, the UNS has seen at least two battleplates destroyed because of their dependence on gravitic weapons. A battleplate is an incredibly valuable strategic asset, so it's not surprising that there'd be a big shift in military doctrine as a result.

The 'bastions' at the edges of a Carbon-class battleplate have very good coverage with point-defence cannons, masers, railguns, and whatever those super-heavy turrets are carrying -- no matter how a target tries to manoeuvre, at least half of a Carbon's 'conventional' weapons should be able to engage it. Most of those weapons could theoretically have dedicated power sources, while the four annie plants allow the battleplate to still have most of the previous generations' gravitic capabilities.

It's possible that the UNS have gotten a lot better at building warships recently as well: it may just be a perspective thing, but this comic (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-07-08) seems to imply that the carbons are also huge, even larger than the previous battleplate generations, and those super-heavy turrets could potentially be the size of the ship you'd get if you took a "lance frigate" like Juab (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2016-11-13) and scaled it up to the size of a destroyer/super-destroyer/carrier.

[Max_Killjoy]

Will see what happens, but right now this looks like more UNS ham-handed, heavy-handed, rush-in-before-you-understand garbage.

[keybounce]

Remember, when we first saw a carbon-class, we were told it was a 9+, and outgunned any prior ship.

So, either there's another giant annieball in the middle, or there is a traditional power plant in the middle that can power weapons if the annies are shut down.

Remember, they have dealt with shutting down annies and relying on capacitors. That would basically be limited by the size of the capacitor, right? Where can you put a giant capacitor in a normal flat plate?

[Max_Killjoy]

At least Breya's ultimately in charge, at least for the time being, and can be counted on to put some breaks on the UNS's more ridiculous instincts.

[factotum]

Remember, they have dealt with shutting down annies and relying on capacitors. That would basically be limited by the size of the capacitor, right? Where can you put a giant capacitor in a normal flat plate?

A normal "flat" plate is hardly paper-thin--the things are a good 200m thick. Plenty of empty room in there for ancillary components (or else the mad Tagii wouldn't have been able to punch right through a battleplate back above Oisri).

[Wayson]

Random observation. Today's strip calls the skyscraper / location where Tagon is "Tower of Barad-Mellon". If we take the word 'Tower' to have been in lower case, it's simply a building called 'Barad-Mellon'. My Sindarin is a little rusty, but that should translate to "Friend Tower". So it's the tower of Friend Tower. The tautology club meets on the first floor, in the room where the tautology club meets.

[Max_Killjoy]

Random observation. Today's strip calls the skyscraper / location where Tagon is "Tower of Barad-Mellon". If we take the word 'Tower' to have been in lower case, it's simply a building called 'Barad-Mellon'. My Sindarin is a little rusty, but that should translate to "Friend Tower". So it's the tower of Friend Tower. The tautology club meets on the first floor, in the room where the tautology club meets.

This happens in language all the time.

See, people referring to "ATM machines" and "shrimp scampi".

IIRC there's some hill somewhere that's been renamed repeatedly with the word for "hill" in each new language of each new people to come to the area tacked on to what it was called by the people already there... so that the name is now, literally, "Hill Hill Hill Hill Hill Hill Hill".

[Willie the Duck]

This happens in language all the time.

See, people referring to "ATM machines" and "shrimp scampi".

IIRC there's some hill somewhere that's been renamed repeatedly with the word for "hill" in each new language of each new people to come to the area tacked on to what it was called by the people already there... so that the name is now, literally, "Hill Hill Hill Hill Hill Hill Hill".

Simpler example -- the sports teams The Los Angeles Angels name means 'the the angels angels.'

[factotum]

IIRC there's some hill somewhere that's been renamed repeatedly with the word for "hill" in each new language of each new people to come to the area tacked on to what it was called by the people already there... so that the name is now, literally, "Hill Hill Hill Hill Hill Hill Hill".

I think you're thinking of Torpenhow Hill there? While "Tor", "Pen" and "How" are all different words for "Hill", so that would be a quadruple tautology, it rather fails on the fact that there isn't actually anywhere called Torpenhow Hill! There's a village called Torpenhow, so that's a triple tautology, though.

[NEO|Phyte]

The real question here is why does that tower not follow the standard PD naming scheme.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I think you're thinking of Torpenhow Hill there? While "Tor", "Pen" and "How" are all different words for "Hill", so that would be a quadruple tautology, it rather fails on the fact that there isn't actually anywhere called Torpenhow Hill! There's a village called Torpenhow, so that's a triple tautology, though.

Yes and no. Torpenhow is adjacent to a hill, from which it likely took its name. Unfortunately, tor and pen are both from the same language, and when used together they mean “top of the hill”. As you say, the village’s hill isn’t actually called anything either, so Torpenhow is a simple double tautology: top of the hill hill. Although I suppose it does get some irony points from not being on said top of the hill.

Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpenhow_Hill)

Grey Wolf

[keybounce]

New thread title: The bribe was accepted in self defense

[factotum]

New thread title: The bribe was accepted in self defense

At the rate posts get added to this thread I don't expect it to hit 50 pages before this time next year, so I think coming up with new thread titles is maybe not that necessary. :smalltongue:

[Rockphed]

At the rate posts get added to this thread I don't expect it to hit 50 pages before this time next year, so I think coming up with new thread titles is maybe not that necessary. :smalltongue:

Heresy! Heresy and Blasphemy! New thread titles are the life blood of any discussion thread!

Edit: And I just realised I could rename the whole thread. Muwahahahahaha!

[factotum]

Edit: And I just realised I could rename the whole thread. Muwahahahahaha!

Don't like to rain on your parade, but it still shows with the old title in the main forum list...

[Lizard Lord]

The real question here is why does that tower not follow the standard PD naming scheme.

To be honest the only thing I can think of is that it wasn't built by Petey but a bussiness owner that set up shop in the Plenipotent Dominion.

Either that or there was simply no way to get "Friend Tower" to have the initials P.D. but, with me being fluent in only one language and only knowing a handful of words in a handful of other languages, I can't confirm that.

[Rockphed]

Don't like to rain on your parade, but it still shows with the old title in the main forum list...

Huh, I thought the time limit for changing titles was 30 days, but I could still change the title in the first post, so I thought I could change the thread name. Looks like I was wrong.

Also, when I said that, I hadn't tried to change the title yet.

[keybounce]

Don't like to rain on your parade, but it still shows with the old title in the main forum list...

I don't know, 5 posts on one page with this title ...

[Lizard Lord]

I don't know, 5 posts on one page with this title ...

....Four of them are yours.

[Onyavar]

I like the bribery title as well.

Let's vote for title changes every 5 thread pages!:smalltongue:

[Ibrinar]

About the current stuff, if you abandon your stuff for more than a few decades with no indication you will ever claim it again and others have been using it imo it eventually stops being your stuff. Maybe moving out when you come back is the right thing to do, especially if it wasn't your choice, but making any other claims like about the stuff the new owners sold off that is pretty shameless.

[halfeye]

About the current stuff, if you abandon your stuff for more than a few decades with no indication you will ever claim it again and others have been using it imo it eventually stops being your stuff. Maybe moving out when you come back is the right thing to do, especially if it wasn't your choice, but making any other claims like about the stuff the new owners sold off that is pretty shameless.

Here there used to be squatter's rights, where if you could live in a house without paying rent for ten years, it became yours, but that law was changed.

If the owners were captive in the basement, that would not do under sqatter's rights, Tagon would be on kidnapping charges for that.

[Max_Killjoy]

Here there used to be squatter's rights, where if you could live in a house without paying rent for ten years, it became yours, but that law was changed.

If the owners were captive in the basement, that would not do under sqatter's rights, Tagon would be on kidnapping charges for that.

Even if, as in the comic, he didn't know they were there?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Toughs have zero indication that there were Oafan survivors around?

Well, other than the handful of resurrected Oafans that they made the actual deals with? To me that sounds like buying the house from the owner's inheritors, when the owners have been missing and presumed dead for 50 years.

[Ibrinar]

Well in the house case someone would have to feed them to have living owners instead of corpses, nobody might believe that a new inhabitant was there but somebody else continued to sneak in food without him noticing. Though I guess the owners could serve as witnesses against that.

[halfeye]

Even if, as in the comic, he didn't know they were there?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Toughs have zero indication that there were Oafan survivors around?

Yeah, I wasn't connecting those dots.

I was thinking that in a real house, you would have to know if people trapped in your basement were getting food and water, and flushing loos, there's no way you could not know there were people there.

However, the situation changes when the Toughs etc do know there are survivors there. The Oafans are in a virtual world I think? so they might be okay with the Toughs having the real can full of sky if they can migrate to an all-star for instance, but I think by rights it would be the Oafan's choice.

[HandofShadows]

I'm surprised we haven't seen anything from the resurrected Oafans yet. Maybe the ones in cyberspace have yet to really figure out there are ones out in meatspace already? :smallconfused: One the one they last brought back was a VERY high ranker and would have proper authority. Also wasn't Iafa the proper authority there when the Toughs first arrived? Haven't seen Iafa either yet. :smalleek:

[Willie the Duck]

I'm surprised we haven't seen anything from the resurrected Oafans yet. Maybe the ones in cyberspace have yet to really figure out there are ones out in meatspace already? :smallconfused: One the one they last brought back was a VERY high ranker and would have proper authority. Also wasn't Iafa the proper authority there when the Toughs first arrived? Haven't seen Iafa either yet. :smalleek:

I'll be the first to admit, right around the time they started the Oafan adventures is right about when I stopped being able to keep track of who everyone was.

[Lizard Lord]

What I don't understand is why you would have to give the homeowners the money you made while you lived there.

[Onyavar]

What I don't understand is why you would have to give the homeowners the money you made while you lived there.

The money you made by selling their silverware and TV and auctioning off settling space in their garden? Yes, why would you have to give that money back?
That's the same argument that squatters make when rightful owners return to their vacation domicile and find it practically plundered, with new locks and dogs to keep them out, while the police tells you that you need to give them a month to move out. Which they do... with all your stuff. If you're lucky, they have not burned the floor in the fireplace. And as they are poor and homeless, you'll never get anything back.

(Note: I hate squatters that disregard other people's property even more than I hate people who afford themselves vacation domiciles, or even multiple ones. But in this case, it is not the Oafan vacation domicile.)

Although, in defense for the toughs I'd say the simile "the owners had been held prisoner in the cellar" is not fitting that good. Ennesby should reform it to "the owners have been lying in a hibernating coma on infinite life support for the last two thousand years, buried ten meters deep under the cellar - until yesterday when the near-perfectly preserved abandoned pyramid in the Sahara desert was found and occupied by said squatters who immediately started selling the silverware (after interviewing the crazy mummy who held guard in the pyramid)".

[factotum]

"the owners have been lying in a hibernating coma on infinite life support for the last two thousand years, buried ten meters deep under the cellar - until yesterday when the near-perfectly preserved abandoned pyramid in the Sahara desert was found and occupied by said squatters who immediately started selling the silverware (after interviewing the crazy mummy who held guard in the pyramid)".

Two thousand years? More like ten million...

[Lizard Lord]

The money you made by selling their silverware and TV and auctioning off settling space in their garden? Yes, why would you have to give that money back?
That's the same argument that squatters make when rightful owners return to their vacation domicile and find it practically plundered, with new locks and dogs to keep them out, while the police tells you that you need to give them a month to move out. Which they do... with all your stuff. If you're lucky, they have not burned the floor in the fireplace. And as they are poor and homeless, you'll never get anything back.

(Note: I hate squatters that disregard other people's property even more than I hate people who afford themselves vacation domiciles, or even multiple ones. But in this case, it is not the Oafan vacation domicile.)

Although, in defense for the toughs I'd say the simile "the owners had been held prisoner in the cellar" is not fitting that good. Ennesby should reform it to "the owners have been lying in a hibernating coma on infinite life support for the last two thousand years, buried ten meters deep under the cellar - until yesterday when the near-perfectly preserved abandoned pyramid in the Sahara desert was found and occupied by said squatters who immediately started selling the silverware (after interviewing the crazy mummy who held guard in the pyramid)".


.....I actually forgot they made most of their money selling Oafan ships and thought it was made just doing mercenary jobs.

With that said, what about the money that they made doing mercenary jobs?

[Willie the Duck]

With that said, what about the money that they made doing mercenary jobs?

Probably not directly the Oafans (even though they used the 'home' as a base of operations), but it's a drop in the bucket, and likely won't cover the damages/non-recoverable property charges they could incur.

I mean, that's the biggest problem with the ongoing strip, and why HT is talking about focus-shifting -- the Toughs are bit players amongst the insanely rich and powerful beings whom they share screen time with. So they broke into what they thought was an abandoned house, knicked a vase and sold if for some new clothes, and had the owners come back and point out that it was a priceless antique.

[factotum]

Probably not directly the Oafans (even though they used the 'home' as a base of operations), but it's a drop in the bucket, and likely won't cover the damages/non-recoverable property charges they could incur.

We already know that Oafan ships are made from super-expensive materials, that's why they could get a battleplate in exchange for 200 smashed-up ships! It was entirely unclear during that transaction who was making it, though--I thought it was the Neo-Oafans behind it with the Toughs just acting as guards and transport crew, so surely it's the Neo-Oafans who should be responsible for that? The Toughs only need to be responsible for the ships they "borrowed".

[Knaight]

The thing about these squatter analogies is that the Oafa faked their own deaths. If you fake your own death, get declared legally dead, and have your estate handed off then you really have no business asking for all your stuff back when you show up again decades down the line, even if you faked your own death for the very good reason of not being murdered.

[Max_Killjoy]

The thing about these squatter analogies is that the Oafa faked their own deaths. If you fake your own death, get declared legally dead, and have your estate handed off then you really have no business asking for all your stuff back when you show up again decades down the line, even if you faked your own death for the very good reason of not being murdered.

Plus, the Toughs made a good-faith deal with the "new Oafans" who everyone was told were the rightful heirs of the place, and with the former "caretaker" of the place.

[halfeye]

Plus, the Toughs made a good-faith deal with the "new Oafans" who everyone was told were the rightful heirs of the place, and with the former "caretaker" of the place.

I agree, the Toughs did nothing especially wrong. It now turns out there are living Oafans, and that changes things going forward. Where the bug swarms fit in, I'm not sure, they grew from the original wildlife and are owed by the Oafans more than owing I suspect.

[Onyavar]

Two thousand years? More like ten million...

In an analogy, things need to be scaled. Ten Million years ago, no humans built pyramids in the Sahara and installed infinite lifesupport systems and mummified butlers there... :smallbiggrin:
So I shortened the timeframe a bit to make it plausible.

Also, I DO know that 2000 years ago, all pyramids were already built. It was just a pi##-poor analogy that is still more fitting than ennesby s.

[Willie the Duck]

Aaaaand now Tagon is calling their lawful-at-the-time actions a robbery. I guess it is better than Taylor giving his band of mercenaries a free pass, but honestly, every forum I'm on, everyone seems more sympathetic to their plight than they are.

[Rockphed]

Aaaaand now Tagon is calling their lawful-at-the-time actions a robbery. I guess it is better than Taylor giving his band of mercenaries a free pass, but honestly, every forum I'm on, everyone seems more sympathetic to their plight than they are.

I think Tagon is saying that he got robbed. Hopefully the cyberfans are paying good money for what they are hiring Tagon to do. It would be stupid and unreasonable for them to demand he work for free at this point. Frankly, they wouldn't be out of their cyber-jail if not for his actions.

[factotum]

I think Tagon is saying that he got robbed.

No, he's going straight from Flinders' realisation that the missing stuff is what the Toughs took to "Yes, there was a robbery". Seems pretty clear the meaning is "We stole all that stuff". As far as I know, they did that with the permission of the descendants of the original Oafans, and they had no idea the original Oafans were actually still around (albeit locked up in cyberspace), so to retroactively call it robbery is ridiculous, IMHO.

Seems to me Howard needed to figure out a way to (a) keep the Toughs going on missions and (b) depriving them of the near-unlimited funds they had supporting them, but he's picked a really strange way of doing it.

[DeTess]

No, he's going straight from Flinders' realisation that the missing stuff is what the Toughs took to "Yes, there was a robbery". Seems pretty clear the meaning is "We stole all that stuff". As far as I know, they did that with the permission of the descendants of the original Oafans, and they had no idea the original Oafans were actually still around (albeit locked up in cyberspace), so to retroactively call it robbery is ridiculous, IMHO.

Seems to me Howard needed to figure out a way to (a) keep the Toughs going on missions and (b) depriving them of the near-unlimited funds they had supporting them, but he's picked a really strange way of doing it.

I suspect this isn't so much about 'taking all their toys' and more about 'giving them a reason to accept a mission they wouldn't accept otherwise', given that this is the second-to-last book there is not really any reason to reset them to the status-quo.

[Onyavar]

My guess is that the oafans are somewhat thankful for being let out. But there is no way they are going to let the Toughs keep all their "unlimited money". The mercs now have probably just their necessary gear but are otherwise broke.

[Max_Killjoy]

The "cyberofans" are basically engaged in might-makes-right.

Under no worthwhile moral or legal system are the Toughs even remotely guilty of robbery.

[Willie the Duck]

The "cyberofans" are basically engaged in might-makes-right.

Under no worthwhile moral or legal system are the Toughs even remotely guilty of robbery.

Unless I skipped a strip, we've seen no exercising of any kind of might. For all we know, the cyberofans simply came out of hiding and stated, 'hi! We're alive! Uh, what happened to our stuff?' and everyone sheepishly said, 'oh, yeah, you probably want that, don't you?' If they have been exercising might, militarily or legally, we might learn about it in upcoming strips, but as of yet we can only guess.

But that is kind of what I'm talking about. Taylor, at least through his characters, seems to be so clear on the idea that the toughs transgressed that once people think about it, their guilt seems to be a no brainer. And we the viewers seem to all be in agreement that no, that's not really the case.

[Max_Killjoy]

Unless I skipped a strip, we've seen no exercising of any kind of might. For all we know, the cyberofans simply came out of hiding and stated, 'hi! We're alive! Uh, what happened to our stuff?' and everyone sheepishly said, 'oh, yeah, you probably want that, don't you?' If they have been exercising might, militarily or legally, we might learn about it in upcoming strips, but as of yet we can only guess.

But that is kind of what I'm talking about. Taylor, at least through his characters, seems to be so clear on the idea that the toughs transgressed that once people think about it, their guilt seems to be a no brainer. And we the viewers seem to all be in agreement that no, that's not really the case.

While not shown directly towards the Toughs, did you see what they did to Crazy-Chinook's remote longgun corvette?

To me this implies that they've come out of hiding, taken control of a lot of the longgun network, and said "Hi, we'd like our stuff back now".

[factotum]

While not shown directly towards the Toughs, did you see what they did to Crazy-Chinook's remote longgun corvette?

To me this implies that they've come out of hiding, taken control of a lot of the longgun network, and said "Hi, we'd like our stuff back now".

I'm pretty sure what they did there was less "We want our stuff back" and more "We want you to stop shooting people because it's giving us a bad name".

[Max_Killjoy]

I'm pretty sure what they did there was less "We want our stuff back" and more "We want you to stop shooting people because it's giving us a bad name".

The point is that it demonstrates their ability to apply precise and overwhelming force.

I can't really think of any reason why everyone else would be so ready to accept their claims without objection, other than their ability to do that sort of thing.

[Ibrinar]

The "cyberofans" are basically engaged in might-makes-right.

Under no worthwhile moral or legal system are the Toughs even remotely guilty of robbery.

If it was presented as that I would prefer it.

[Spojaz]

The toughs have been immortal for a few months, and now for some reason they are very interested in setting a long precedent on the matter of "How long does something have to be in storage before it counts as abandoned?".

[DeTess]

The toughs have been immortal for a few months, and now for some reason they are very interested in setting a long precedent on the matter of "How long does something have to be in storage before it counts as abandoned?".

That's... actually a very good point. In some ways, this precedent would be in the interest of a lot of newly immortal people.

[Ibrinar]

Letting people permanently reserve stuff without doing anything is imo a waste of resources. Even if I were immortal I would be against that. If I abandon something for millennia and don't at least get someone to take care of it I wouldn't expect to keep it. And honestly outside of fringe situations like getting stuck in a virtual world if you abandon something that long you probably won't miss it.

[Grim Portent]

Hang on a minute, what were they even uploaded into a computer to escape from anyway?

The place is already an isolated, annie-plantless space station floating in the middle of a nebula. The pa'anuri can't find the place and being in a computer is no safer than being organic when long guns or other more conventional warfare is going on. Computer uploading only helps if the computer is more difficult to attack than the place the people were already living, but this computer is in the same place as they were living so it's no safer than living in the habitat.

[factotum]

Hang on a minute, what were they even uploaded into a computer to escape from anyway?

Iafa was so horrified at what he'd done (basically killed everyone and uploaded them to cyberspace) that he erased his memory of the events. That maybe suggests he realised that it wasn't actually necessary to do it, but only after the event.

[Max_Killjoy]

This is really bugging me.

The old Oafans should direct their issues towards the new Oafans.

[PraetorDragoon]

wait. Was " crazy goddess with the long guns" just defeated off panel?

[Grim Portent]

wait. Was " crazy goddess with the long guns" just defeated off panel?

Yep.

Hell, I think she's technically been beaten off panel twice in so many pages. We didn't see her defeated in Eina-Afa itself or the mobilisation of a fleet to hunt down her drones, just Putzho mentioning in one panel that he could track her drones based on targeting data and then an oafan ship shooting one of her long guns. We've seen none of the actual effort that went into beating her and it makes it seem like she just kind of stopped being a problem.

I'm not sure if she even managed to kill anyone come to think of it.

[HandofShadows]

Iafa was so horrified at what he'd done (basically killed everyone and uploaded them to cyberspace) that he erased his memory of the events. That maybe suggests he realised that it wasn't actually necessary to do it, but only after the event.

Considering an that an ancient Ofan linked to Iafa and decided that Iafa was moving to slow in killing everyone, I don't think Iafa was wrong even in hindsight. I just think that Iafa couldn't take it despite it being the right/only thing to do. https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-07-28

[PraetorDragoon]

Yep.

Hell, I think she's technically been beaten off panel twice in so many pages. We didn't see her defeated in Eina-Afa itself or the mobilisation of a fleet to hunt down her drones, just Putzho mentioning in one panel that he could track her drones based on targeting data and then an oafan ship shooting one of her long guns. We've seen none of the actual effort that went into beating her and it makes it seem like she just kind of stopped being a problem.

I'm not sure if she even managed to kill anyone come to think of it.

Why are we getting a contrived conflict when we had a perfect conflict on our hands?

[lesser_minion]

Unless I skipped a strip, we've seen no exercising of any kind of might. For all we know, the cyberofans simply came out of hiding and stated, 'hi! We're alive! Uh, what happened to our stuff?' and everyone sheepishly said, 'oh, yeah, you probably want that, don't you?' If they have been exercising might, militarily or legally, we might learn about it in upcoming strips, but as of yet we can only guess.

It sounds like they've taken control of the remaining ships, including a lot of long gun corvettes. Putzho was talking about how many long guns they had last week. (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-09-11) The book title itself references maxim 69, "Sometimes rank is a function of firepower" (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2015-03-06).


Considering an that an ancient Ofan linked to Iafa and decided that Iafa was moving to slow in killing everyone, I don't think Iafa was wrong even in hindsight. I just think that Iafa couldn't take it despite it being the right/only thing to do. https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-07-28

The Oafan who took control of the station, then killed and uploaded everyone in the prologue was the big librarian who got resurrected a few books back (contrary to the instructions encoded in his soul-foil). The AI he took control from may also have been the xeno-archaeologist from https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-07-27. Iafa wasn't present in the prologue.

[Max_Killjoy]

The Oafan who took control of the station, then killed and uploaded everyone in the prologue was the big librarian who got resurrected a few books back (contrary to the instructions encoded in his soul-foil). The AI he took control from may also have been the xeno-archaeologist from https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-07-27. Iafa wasn't present in the prologue.


I think most of us are referring to this:

https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-05-27

(A sequence that also establishes that Chinook's madness now is a result of running on the system Iafa designed to hide from its own guilt.)

[lesser_minion]

I think most of us are referring to this:

https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-05-27

(A sequence that also establishes that Chinook's madness now is a result of running on the system Iafa designed to hide from its own guilt.)

People appear to be conflating the original murder-upload that left the Oafans extinct in meat-space with what Iafa did.

The prologue to this book shows the murder-upload (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-07-28), and we can see that Iafa isn't present: the two people responsible are called Mnelalae (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2018-07-27) (who appears to be the xeno-archaeologist from before) and Yaeyoefui (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2015-12-29).

It seems like Iafa came after the Oafans were already extinct in real-space, and "imprisoned" them by confining them to the hardware that Putzho found.

All of that said, I don't know whether or not we know what Iafa was like ten million years ago, so it's still possible that Mnelalae really is the same person. Iafa remade himself (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2014-03-03) when they were reactivating Breath Weapon, and the previous incarnation was implied to be female.

[Rockphed]

T'kkkuts Afa might have called itself something different when it was still sane. (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2014-02-07)

Edit: Something else I found in an archive dive is Karl's shirt (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2014-02-25). I'm trying to figure out how "Failure is mandatory" relates to "A little trust goes a long way."

[memnarch]

...

Edit: Something else I found in an archive dive is Karl's shirt (https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2014-02-25). I'm trying to figure out how "Failure is mandatory" relates to "A little trust goes a long way."

It's got a logic operator that looks like it's "!=", or doesn't equal, but I can't think of a pithy phrase or meaning from saying mandatory failure isn't from having a little trust.

[keybounce]

M70
!=#30

... I don't get it?

Which ones are 70 and 30 again? Wasn't 70 "Failure is a given, how you respond to it is what matters"?

[TaRix]

M70
!=#30

... I don't get it?

Which ones are 70 and 30 again? Wasn't 70 "Failure is a given, how you respond to it is what matters"?

It's the 'cryptic last page' in the Seventy Maxims book, interpreted something like "The end is not the end" or something. I'd remember more but I've misplaced the book.

[factotum]

OK, so the Oafans have found a supposedly hidden UNS battleplate--wonder if that means that Breath Weapon has a tracking device aboard? And presumably they're just there to retrieve the ship and the Toughs can go hang, given the way this plotline has been unfolding.

[Willie the Duck]

Probably. I wonder about what other mission the battleplate is on that it is running dark.