So what does a Warlock need Concentration for?

[LordBlade]

What abilities of theirs need it? And just how important is it?
Presuming you're not always trying to cast/invoke stuff in melee range, is it as important for them as other casters?

[Venger]

Wands.

Also a couple of your invocations like dark discorporation and summon swarm.

[LordBlade]

How does Concentration work with wands? I never really use them except the odd healing one. :p

[Venger]

Like rogues, umd is warlock's primary class feature. With a dc 20 umd (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/useMagicDevice.htm) you can use a wand of any list. Warlocks get their signature deceive item ability at 4, allowing them to take 10. Assuming you max ranks and have a charisma of at least 14, you will be doing this by level 4, so it's of use to you even if you're just dipping warlock to go into chameleon or what have you.

Using the wand itself does not impose a concentration check, but if you want to cast a spell which has a duration of concentration, then you'll obviously need ranks in concentration

[Nifft]

What abilities of theirs need it? And just how important is it?
Presuming you're not always trying to cast/invoke stuff in melee range, is it as important for them as other casters?

Other casters are also not ~always~ trying to cast/invoke stuff in melee range -- but when you're in melee range and you want to NOT be in melee range, then that one spell/invocation might be disproportionately important.

Defensive invocation for e.g. Flee the Scene is a solid use.

Defensive invocation for Eldritch Glaive is a thing, too.

[Troacctid]

It's very common to need to cast in melee range, so being able to cast defensively is important. Enough enemies have reach that you can't just rely on 5-foot steps to avoid AoOs.

Aside from that, getting caught without Concentration ranks can screw you over hard and prevent you from doing anything in some situations. If you're taking ongoing damage, if you're entangled, if there are distracting environmental effects, if your spellcasting gets disrupted at all, having a decent Concentration could be the difference between acting normally or effectively skipping your turn.


Wands.

Also a couple of your invocations like dark discorporation and summon swarm.
Dark Discorporation is sadly not concentration.

[Zaq]

Presuming you're not always trying to cast/invoke stuff in melee range

As Nifft and Troacctid said, it's not about whether you want to cast in melee range. It's about casting when your opponent wants to be in melee range and happens to have asserted that desire.

While there are a few exceptions (Diamond Mind maneuvers, for one), most of the time you aren't using Concentration because things are going the way you plan. You use Concentration to deal with the fact that things are going poorly (or at least going tougher than you expected).

[RoboEmperor]

Concentration isn't mandatory. I've played lots of sorcerers and clerics with 0 points in concentration because I needed my skill points elsewhere. So while it's nice to have concentration its not mandatory so feel free to ditch it if you want.

[KillianHawkeye]

Concentration isn't mandatory. I've played lots of sorcerers and clerics with 0 points in concentration because I needed my skill points elsewhere. So while it's nice to have concentration its not mandatory so feel free to ditch it if you want.

And I've seen plenty of clerics and warlocks who thought they didn't need Concentration get badly screwed when the situation escalated beyond their control.

Concentration is in the same boat as condoms. It's much better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have any.

[Nifft]

Concentration is in the same boat as condoms. It's much better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have any.

Always carrying condoms yet never being in a condom-wanting situation seems like some kind of hell, to be honest.

[Silva Stormrage]

Also remember that Eldritch blast is fairly close range if you aren't using Eldritch Spear. Usually within charge range at least so even if you don't INTEND to use an invocation in melee you may soon find yourself next to an enemy.

Also enemies can ready actions to disrupt you if need be, readying an action to hit you with an arrow for example would force you to make a concentration check or have your invocation fizzle.

[RoboEmperor]

And I've seen plenty of clerics and warlocks who thought they didn't need Concentration get badly screwed when the situation escalated beyond their control.

Concentration is in the same boat as condoms. It's much better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have any.

Unless the cost of those condoms mean selling your house or your car. Sometimes you just don't have enough skill points to do everything you want to in a game or grab all the PrCs you want and concentration is always 2nd to go. 1st is spellcraft unless you know the campaign is going epic.

Ever play with a 25PB DM? Your Int is gonna suffer.

[weckar]

I would really, really appreciate if we could break that methaphor...

Concentration is not AS big a deal on Warlocks as regular arcane casters as they don't risk losing spells. It's mostly a choice between buffing your AC/DR or your Concentration, as the former prevents needing the latter.

[Mordaedil]

Yeah, please stop using that metaphor, it's borderline inappropriate.

It's more like a safety belt, anyway. If you go driving, you should always put on your safety belt because entirely by no fault of your own you could end up in an accident and a good safety belt can either save you in a situation where you'd otherwise die, but it can't guarantee that you'll be okay either.

[Psyren]

Wands.


How does Concentration work with wands? I never really use them except the odd healing one. :p

It doesn't actually, Venger probably meant scrolls. Wands use spell trigger which does not provoke, thus concentration is unlikely to be necessary.

[Venger]

It doesn't actually, Venger probably meant scrolls. Wands use spell trigger which does not provoke, thus concentration is unlikely to be necessary.

I said wands because I meant wands. I'm perfectly aware using umd to activate a wand imposes no concentration check and said as much in my post. As I explained, you might want to take some spells with the duration of concentration.

[Psyren]

I said wands because I meant wands. I'm perfectly aware using umd to activate a wand imposes no concentration check and said as much in my post. As I explained, you might want to take some spells with the duration of concentration.

Seems pretty niche but all right, sure.

[KillianHawkeye]

Always carrying condoms yet never being in a condom-wanting situation seems like some kind of hell, to be honest.

There are oh so many different kinds of hells. :smallwink:

[Jack_Simth]

but if you want to cast a spell which has a duration of concentration, then you'll obviously need ranks in concentration
Umm... you only need to use the Concentration skill to maintain Concentration on a spell if you're taking damage (or otherwise getting forcibly distracted) while maintaining the spell.

Per the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#duration):
Concentration

The spell lasts as long as you concentrate on it. Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Anything that could break your concentration when casting a spell can also break your concentration while you’re maintaining one, causing the spell to end.

You can’t cast a spell while concentrating on another one. Sometimes a spell lasts for a short time after you cease concentrating.

So if, for instance, I'm out of combat and am using Wall of Fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfFire.htm) to heat a giant pot of water for some strange reason, I can sit there and just think about it for hours & hours until the pot boils away. If someone shoots me with an arrow, on the other hand, I need to make a Concentration check to keep it up.

[Venger]

Umm... you only need to use the Concentration skill to maintain Concentration on a spell if you're taking damage (or otherwise getting forcibly distracted) while maintaining the spell.
Right, like in combat or something.

[Jack_Simth]

Right, like in combat or something.
There's only a handful of spells for which that will be relevant. The vast majority of duration(Concentration) spells either aren't really combat spells anyway (e.g., Silent Image), or hang around for at least a few rounds after you cease concentration (e.g., Wall of Fire has 1 round/level, Summon Swarm and Minor Image both get two rounds, and so on) which will quite often outlast combat whether you maintain them or not.

Or to put it another way: How many spells can you name that meet both of the following criteria:
1) You'll regularly want to use them in combat.
2) They do not persist at all after you quit concentrating.
... now compare that to the number of spells in the game.

[RoboEmperor]

There's only a handful of spells for which that will be relevant. The vast majority of duration(Concentration) spells either aren't really combat spells anyway (e.g., Silent Image), or hang around for at least a few rounds after you cease concentration (e.g., Wall of Fire has 1 round/level, Summon Swarm and Minor Image both get two rounds, and so on) which will quite often outlast combat whether you maintain them or not.

Or to put it another way: How many spells can you name that meet both of the following criteria:
1) You'll regularly want to use them in combat.
2) They do not persist at all after you quit concentrating.
... now compare that to the number of spells in the game.

I'd max concentration solely for Summon Elemental Monolith combo'd with sonorous hum.

[Mordaedil]

I'd max concentration solely for Summon Elemental Monolith combo'd with sonorous hum.

Of course, on a wand.

[Jack_Simth]

I'd max concentration solely for Summon Elemental Monolith combo'd with sonorous hum.
Are all your games high enough that you're using 9th level spells?

Don't get me wrong: I max out Concentration on any 3.5 caster I play (Pathfinder uses a different mechanic), but it's mostly for when things are not going as well as hoped - casting defensively because I ended up in melee range, because I'm taking damage from some other caster's Acid Fog, because the battle's taking place on the deck of a ship and "violent motion" applies, because some muggle got lucky with a readied action and an arrow, et cetera.

[KillianHawkeye]

Of course, on a wand.

Dude, you can't put that on a wand!

[ShurikVch]

Warlock have both Fort and Ref as bad saves
Thus, Martial Study: Action Before Thought and Mind Over Body

[Mordaedil]

Dude, you can't put that on a wand!
Don't yell at me about that.

[Acanous]

There are some things wish loops can’t buy.
For everything else, there’s concentration.

[KillianHawkeye]

Don't yell at me about that.

Don't complain about something I didn't do. :smallannoyed:

[ericgrau]

You'd rather not invoke in melee range, but you don't always have a choice. You might want other skills more, true. But while most skills are nice they aren't as good as ones you can use in combat. Even on a range focus it might be 2nd or 3rd after UMD and spellcraft.

Plus as mentioned readied actions to disrupt, bad weather, unstable ground, etc., etc. Or heck, plenty of monsters have reach. Plenty grapple.

You might think knowledge (arcana) or some such skill is "essential" but really you can live without it. Combat skills like concentration you can't.


Concentration isn't mandatory. I've played lots of sorcerers and clerics with 0 points in concentration because I needed my skill points elsewhere. So while it's nice to have concentration its not mandatory so feel free to ditch it if you want.
Your DM is generous with not having readied actions archers and not using the standard mantra "charge the mage". Or maybe you employ some defensive trick? Though that's fine if the O.P.'s DM is the same way.

[RoboEmperor]

Your DM is generous with not having readied actions archers and not using the standard mantra "charge the mage". Or maybe you employ some defensive trick? Though that's fine if the O.P.'s DM is the same way.

My sorcerers and clerics go minionmancy, so they only need their spellcasting until their minionmancy kicks in, which used to be level 9 unoptimized, but is now level 6, or level 1 in the case of my sorcerer (I love mount spell :P)

In my cleric's case he has sky high AC with fullplate and tower shield (no proficiency, always goes last, but uninterruptable conjure ice beast is totally worth it).

In my sorcerer's case before I started abusing the mount spell, I always had wands of some kind, be it magic missile or glitterdust, and wands do not provoke AoOs so no concentration required.

And once I hit the necessary minionmancy level, it's 100% minionmancy so any interrupted spells is just buffs like haste, not that important.

For nonminionmancers, there are always staves which don't provoke AoOs. There's always a way around things in 3.5. No concentration no minion casters just need to invest in wands and staves for the occasional situation.

And then there's also miss chance equipment, move action teleports, protection from arrows, etc.

[Mordaedil]

Don't complain about something I didn't do. :smallannoyed:
Reading comprehension, please.