Trouble Making and Theming an AL Sorcerer

[Rashagar]

So I've been thinking about a new character for Adventurer's League play. I always used to love spontaneous casters and metamagic in previous editions (Pathfinder's oracle being my absolute favourite anything) but the limited spell selection for sorcerers feels very painful in this edition. So how do you go about making your sorcerer? I've read a bunch of guides on the topic but do you start with the theme? Or by deciding what metamagic you'll be picking? How far ahead do you plan your spell picks?

I had thought a dwarf sorcerer would be a lot of fun, with maybe a level of cleric for a mystic theurge/pathfinder oracle feel, but when I was trying to figure out what spells I'd pick leveling up it just felt like I would be better off being a straight cleric, and I found the spells I was picking made for a very generic feeling list.

I'm also not sure how much you need to min-max stats in AL, like does starting with a 14 in charisma mean you can't really do debuffs effectively?

I'm almost certainly overthinking this but I'd like to hear how people have gone about deciding on their sorcerers' capabilities. All I know so far is that I don't really want to go the lightning damage route. And that however I theme my character he'll definitely be taking the Shield spell.

[TheUser]

Always start with metamagics in mind.

From their build an array of spells to work with.

Multi-classing can help the spell crunch if you're in a bind.

I'd assume you are going for a diviney feel so Divine Soul? That's a good start; they get a bonus spell and can also trade that spell out for a different cleric spell later.

A single Cleric multi-class level will give you a minimum of 4 level 1 spells to add to your list and medium or heavy armor proficiency depending on what type of cleric.

[Kyrinthic]

Note that, to an extent, all casters are spontaneous casters in this edition. Even wizards, while they can change their known spells over a long rest, their slots arent tied to specific spells.

That said, multiclassing is the way to get more spells, that or going with divine soul sorcerer to open up the cleric lists. I play a dwarven wizard, and a single level of forge cleric gives a lot of very strong options at all levels (cure wounds, bless, shield of faith), letting me free up some spells known for more potent slots on the other side. And of course full plate, and as a dwarf, there is no penalty to wearing it even if your strength is low. Tempest cleric might be worth a 2 level dip instead if you are going lightning theme, as there are strong synergies for a storm sorcerer.

In 5th edition, multiclassing casters gets you slots when you dont have spells, but upcasting means those remain useful. Maybe you wont get the level 4 spell until a few levels later, but you get the slot the same time as any other caster, and thats another lightning bolt at +1 die. You wont feel the burn of multiclassing too bad as long as you stick with full caster classes.

[Vogie]

You'll want to have as much Charisma as possible to keep your DC's high enough to buff and debuff.

I think Divine Soul Sorc is the closest to give that Mystic Theurge feel - You have the combined spells feature from 1, the ability to quicken spells into bonus actions starting at Sorcerer level 3 gives that Spell Synthesis feel.

If you'd like more spell slots you could MC into Cleric, if you have the wisdom, but I'd actually suggest going Bard or Warlock. That gives you a Single stat that you need to focus on, Charisma, instead of spreading things out.

Lore Bard- this will also give you just shy of twice the spell slots per level, also refreshing off long rests. While the spell list is largely Arcane in nature, it has a bit of divine-styled or cleric-equivalent spells, as well as the ability to pick up ANY spells at levels 6 & 10. The Inspiration/Cutting Words feature also feels very similar to the +2 to you /-2 to them half of the Spell Synthesis feature of the Mystic Theurge.
Celestial Warlock - This will give you the same amount of spell slots per level as sorcerer does, but they refresh on short rests. This allows you to use the Flexible casting Sorcerer feature to "bank" unused Warlock slots into sorcery points prior to a short rest, then use those points to create more spell slots after the rest is over. While the warlock spell list is largely Arcane in nature, the Celestial patron specifically expands the warlock list with divine-styled or cleric-equivalent spells that you can choose.

[Kyrinthic]

You'll want to have as much Charisma as possible to keep your DC's high enough to buff and debuff.

I think Divine Soul Sorc is the closest to give that Mystic Theurge feel - You have the combined spells feature from 1, the ability to quicken spells into bonus actions starting at Sorcerer level 3 gives that Spell Synthesis feel.

If you'd like more spell slots you could MC into Cleric, if you have the wisdom, but I'd actually suggest going Bard or Warlock. That gives you a Single stat that you need to focus on, Charisma, instead of spreading things out.

Lore Bard- this will also give you just shy of twice the spell slots per level, also refreshing off long rests. While the spell list is largely Arcane in nature, it has a bit of divine-styled or cleric-equivalent spells, as well as the ability to pick up ANY spells at levels 6 & 10. The Inspiration/Cutting Words feature also feels very similar to the +2 to you /-2 to them half of the Spell Synthesis feature of the Mystic Theurge.
Celestial Warlock - This will give you the same amount of spell slots per level as sorcerer does, but they refresh on short rests. This allows you to use the Flexible casting Sorcerer feature to "bank" unused Warlock slots into sorcery points prior to a short rest, then use those points to create more spell slots after the rest is over. While the warlock spell list is largely Arcane in nature, the Celestial patron specifically expands the warlock list with divine-styled or cleric-equivalent spells that you can choose.


Full multiclass, stick with the Cha caster, but be super careful about the warlock, it wont advance your spellcasting the same way. If you want to dip, getting platemail from cleric, and choosing spells that aren't offensive saves means you can get away with a relatively low wisdom.

Divine soul is tricky because, despite having access to a better list of spells, you are still saddled with the sorcerer's painful number of spells known. If you want to have divine flavor throughout, its a solid choice, but giving up extra lightning damage would feel unfortunate. And even with divine soul, cleric dip for 4 useful spells known and heavier armor has value.

[Rashagar]

Thanks for the thoughts and advice everyone. Been thinking about it a good while now and yeah, I think my character is going to go for the 1 level dip in life cleric with Divine Soul sorcerer and go for a sort of dwarven spiritual leader theme, although I'm still kind of struggling to figure out how best to make use of the sorcerer part.

So far my character looks like: Hill Dwarf, 12 10 16 10 14 14, heavy armour, shield, 8 hp/level, all good.
Taking Twinned Spell asap for Cleric spells like cure, healing word, shield of faith, prot from evil, sanctuary, guiding bolt, all a lot of fun options and feels like a very versatile support character.
Taking Heighten Spell at Sorcerer level 10 to take advantage of concentrationless Bestow Curse, and Disintegrate feels like a strong option, and by then I'd have upped my Cha/DCs a bit too.
Between those levels though, yeah, picking sorcerer spells that fit both thematically and mechanically while actually making enough good use of metamagic to justify being a sorcerer in the first place is proving more puzzling than I'd expected.
The only spells I'm sure about are Shield, Absorb Elements and Counterspell.

Among my many many options,
Catapult: seems really fun and quite dwarven, as well as fairly versatile. Would you replace this at higher levels? When?
Max's Earthen Grasp: very dwarven, repeatable attempts so lower DC doesn't matter as much, but between bless, shield of faith, prot from evil and potentially haste later that's a lot of competition for concentration.
Spiritual Weapon: makes really good use of bonus actions, making Quicken Spell less necessary, and combos with things like restraining. Not sure how it compares to sorcerer damage options.
Prayer of Healing: cost effective option to make use of the Empowered Healing divine soul reroll ability.
Bestow Curse: should definitely happen either early or later when I can take Heighten Spell.
Haste: I should probably have it if I'm aiming to be a support sorcerer even if I might not always get to make use of it (expensive to twin, AL meaning party composition isn't set, if I need to tank I most likely won't be casting it), but at least I finally came up with a flavour that makes it seem fitting for a dwarf (like a berserk fury/battle prowess blessing).
Greater Invisibility: Really good as a defensive twinnable option as well as a utility option, though the level 2 one has better utility and scales by target. I know it and Enlarge are Deurger tricks but still doesn't feel particularly flavourful to me.

Cleric Spells:
1: Bless, Cure, +3 others depending on adventure/party/mood
Sorcerer Spell Selection by Level:
1 Shield, Catapult, x1
2 x2
3 Max's Earthen Grasp, -x1 +Spirit Weapon
4 x3, -x2 +Prayer of Healing (scales to make use of 3rd level slots)
5 Haste, -x3 +Counterspell
6 x4, something scaling to make use of 4th level slots
7 x5, -Max's Earthen Grasp +Water Sphere(reflavoured? Seems a straight upgrade over Max's)
8 x6, something scaling to make use of 5th level slots
9 x7
10 Bestow Curse (definitely by this level, maybe earlier)
11 Disintegrate

That would leave me with just 4 spells to pick for a final loadout, and I haven't even fit Absorb Elements or Greater Invisibility in there yet. Or more cleric stuff like Death Ward. I also haven't picked my other level 3 metamagic choice.
Quicken Spell: would let me do something other than Spiritual Weapon or Healing Word while using Earthen Grasp/Water Sphere/(potentially Enervation), not sure what that potential something would be without putting more instant damaging options in there, but instant damaging options would also benefit from;
Empower Spell: feels like it would be particularly good if I was trying to focus on the dwarfness more by taking Erupting Earth (I can just imagine rolling like 5 damage total for that spell without Empower to fall back on).
Distant Spell: for Cure and Bestow Curse if I'm taking the latter earlier could be an option.
The last option I can see would be Subtle Spell, which yeah would be good with Enhance Ability or Invisibility or, I don't know, when I don't want anyone to know I'm the one healing everyone, which could also be fun.
If I could think of a way to make use of Animate Dead type spells with metamagic that could be very funny, but I can't really, and where would I possibly fit them in the spells known.

So, definitely overthinking this by this stage, but still interested in opinions and advice. How would you round out the spell choices? Would you make changes? What final metamagic option would you take and why?

[AttilatheYeon]

Play around with different build ideas. You can respec until you’re level 5. Also have you considered Arcane clerics? That might suit you’re concept better, unless the character has to be a sorc.