View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Class Symmetry musings

2018-06-11, 06:37 PM
One of my personal gripes with a lot of game systems is that they will provide classes which lack Symmetry. What I mean by this is that, for example, if a game or RPG has three key stats: Strength, Agility, and Intelligence, I like to see multiple options for each stat. I find it frustrating if only one Strength class appears, and also if every Intelligence class is the same ranged AoE mage with different elements mixed in.

In the context of DnD 5e, specifically spellcasting, there is currently a lack of symmetry in my opinion. We have at present:

2 full spellcasters using Charisma (Bard, Sorcerer), both of which use spells known
2 full spellcasters using Wisdom (Druid, Cleric), both of which are prepared.
1 full spellcaster using Intelligence (Wizard), which is prepared but from a limited list.
1 pact caster using Charisma (Warlock). This is a unique enough class that adding too much symmetry would interfere with its unique tendencies.

1 half caster using Wisdom (Ranger), which uses Spells known.
1 half caster using Charisma (Paladin), which prepares spells.

2 third casters, both using Wizard's Intelligence spellcasting (Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight)

To that end, in the interest of symmetry, I would like to see or make:

A full caster using Intelligence, preferably using spells known.
A third caster using Wisdom and a third caster using Charisma, which use spellcasting from the existing full caster lists. Arcane Trickster should have been Bard from the beginning anyway.
A half caster using Intelligence, which can be either spells prepared or spells known.

The following are softer requests, given the rather narrow gap between spells known and spells prepared in 5e, and the unique nature of the Warlock.

A full caster using Charisma which prepares spells.
A full caster using Wisdom which uses spells known.
A full pact caster using a stat other than Charisma.
A half pact caster, using any stat.
A third caster using Warlock progression or progression from the above full pact caster.

Most of these could honestly just be refluffs with minor changes (druids could go to spells known with minor tweaks, Arcane Trickster can use Bard or Sorcerer as its base caster instead), but I eventually will get around to making some of the other ones once I have a concept that stands enough apart from existing 5e classes. Mostly I wanted to post this here so that it's all written down, but I'm curious if this is a thing that has bothered other people also and if anyone has ideas for class archetypes to fill certain bullet points.

2018-06-12, 06:12 PM
Certainly there have been many musings about the diminished value of INT in 5e apart from INT being semi-needed for the only 3rd casters.

It is also off that 3rd casters get cantrips, yet half casters do not.

2018-06-12, 08:49 PM
Symmetry for the sake of symmetry is how we got the Great Wheel cosmology and 4e.

Is there a gap in playstyles for these proposed classes? A niche both in mechanics and in thematics? Or would it be better, if needed, to allow flexibility in casting stats (letting Warlocks choose either INT or CHA at level 1, for example)?