Help with Adapting 3.5e's Positive/Negative Energy effects on Undead to 5e

[Ionathus]

Hi all,

I've been trying to work out how I would transfer "offensive-healing-magic-vs-undead" to 5th Edition, because I think it's a very cool dynamic in 3.5 and it would open up opportunities for divine casters when facing undead.

Currently, my thought is to simply require a spell attack, and roll 3d10 (as for Inflict Wounds) turned into radiant damage against the undead target. This works pretty well for Cure Wounds, and I think Heal/Harm could be adapted as well, but it feels like the equivalency breaks down for things like Mass Heal, which could potentially deal 700 radiant damage to a single target. Even save-for-half feels too powerful there, even if we're giving it the "can only reduce to 1hp" rule from Harm.

On the converse, using Inflict Wounds to heal undead is appealing as a mechanic, but I would probably want to tone it back from 3d10 to 1d8 to balance.

What do y'all think about this? Is 5e just too different of a system for the Positive/Negative energy dynamic to transfer successfully? Do divine casters now have better undead-hurting options than they had back in 3.5e?

Appreciate your input!

[MoleMage]

Hi all,

I've been trying to work out how I would transfer "offensive-healing-magic-vs-undead" to 5th Edition, because I think it's a very cool dynamic in 3.5 and it would open up opportunities for divine casters when facing undead.

Currently, my thought is to simply require a spell attack, and roll 3d10 (as for Inflict Wounds) turned into radiant damage against the undead target. This works pretty well for Cure Wounds, and I think Heal/Harm could be adapted as well, but it feels like the equivalency breaks down for things like Mass Heal, which could potentially deal 700 radiant damage to a single target. Even save-for-half feels too powerful there, even if we're giving it the "can only reduce to 1hp" rule from Harm.

On the converse, using Inflict Wounds to heal undead is appealing as a mechanic, but I would probably want to tone it back from 3d10 to 1d8 to balance.

What do y'all think about this? Is 5e just too different of a system for the Positive/Negative energy dynamic to transfer successfully? Do divine casters now have better undead-hurting options than they had back in 3.5e?

Appreciate your input!

It always bothered me that this was the case, but I feel like the number of Radiant Damage effects helps mitigate it. I would personally just add an alternate use which copies the wording of the corresponding opposite spell (Inflict/Cure Wounds). Mass Heal should probably not be usable this way as there's no Mass Harm, but Heal is fine.

Maybe something like: "Cure Wounds can be cast on an undead target. If you do, treat it as Inflict Wounds, dealing radiant damage instead of necrotic."
"Inflict Wounds can be cast on an undead target. If you do, treat it as Cure Wounds."

[Fire Tarrasque]

Here's a really easy solution:

Just have the ability cast itself reversed.
If you use Cure Wounds on undead, have them do damage as if Cause Wounds, and vice versa.

[Vogie]

Maybe something like: "Cure Wounds can be cast on an undead target. If you do, treat it as Inflict Wounds, dealing radiant damage instead of necrotic."
"Inflict Wounds can be cast on an undead target. If you do, treat it as Cure Wounds."

Or add some sort of rider.

Inflict Wounds
Make a melee spell attack. On a hit, the target takes 3d10 necrotic damage.
Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell heals such a creature of the same amount of damage, rather than harming it. The next time the creature is hit with an attack, the creature has vulnerability to all of that attack's damage.
At Higher Levels: The value increases by 1d10 for each slot level above 1st

Cure Wounds
A creature you touch regains 1d8 + your spellcasting modifier of hit points. This spell has no effect on constructs.
Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell damages such a creature of the same amount, rather than healing it. The next time the creature is hit with an attack, the creature has resistance to all of that attack's damage.
At Higher Levels: The value increases by 1d8 for each slot level above 1st.

That way it still has an "inflict" or "cure" vibe, even though it's doing the opposite to the undead