PAO'ing Objects Into Living Creatures

[MaxiDuRaritry]

According to the text of polymorph any object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm), you can alter an object into a living creature. When you do so, it gains the average Int score for whatever creature you turned it into (and since it must have Wis and Cha scores to not be considered an object, it must, perforce, gain these as well).

However, nothing in the spell description gives the resulting creature skill ranks, meaning it doesn't gain those, though it still has a (potentially large) Int score, which presents somewhat of a conundrum.

What mental shape is the newly minted creature in when it appears? It may have an Int of 10 (for a human), meaning it's fully sapient and able to speak (if its new body is even capable of such), but what does it know? How does it respond to its environment? Is it the equivalent of a mewling newborn in a young adult body? Is it effectively comatose, not knowing that it's supposed to be able to move in order to respond to its environment? Is it like a war hulk that had (rather stupidly) invested all of its skill points in Int-based skills?

Does it have a personality, or a soul, temporary though they may be?

Any input (and your reasoning for such) is appreciated.

[Venger]

According to the text of polymorph any object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm), you can alter an object into a living creature. When you do so, it gains the average Int score for whatever creature you turned it into (and since it must have Wis and Cha scores to not be considered an object, it must, perforce, gain these as well).

However, nothing in the spell description gives the resulting creature skill ranks, meaning it doesn't gain those, though it still has a (potentially large) Int score, which presents somewhat of a conundrum.

What mental shape is the newly minted creature in when it appears? It may have an Int of 10 (for a human), meaning it's fully sapient and able to speak (if its new body is even capable of such), but what does it know? How does it respond to its environment? Is it the equivalent of a mewling newborn in a young adult body? Is it effectively comatose, not knowing that it's supposed to be able to move in order to respond to its environment? Is it like a war hulk that had (rather stupidly) invested all of its skill points in Int-based skills?

Does it have a personality, or a soul, temporary though they may be?

Any input (and your reasoning for such) is appreciated.

That's a pretty interesting question.

I assume it invests them normally, as a freshly minted monster of whatever sort you turned it into.

All creatures in dnd are automatically able to speak and write their listed languages (assuming they're not barbarians or totemists) so it doesn't need to learn how to speak.

Its mental stats are not at 0, so there's no reason for it to be comatose.

Personality, like the hair or eye color, would presumably be up to the caster's whim, since it has no mechanical impact on gameplay.

You turn into a typical member of that race, so you have a soul as normal until you turn back into a pebble or hamburger or whatever (assuming you just have 1 casting of pao on the thing, and don't zap them twice to make it permanent)

[Duke of Urrel]

According to the rules of the Polymorph Subschool, which appear on page 207 of the Player's Handbook v. 3.5 (2008):


If the subject of a Polymorph spell is slain or rendered unconscious, the spell ends.

Death is the moment when the soul leaves the body (provided that a creature has a dual nature), but it's also the moment when the Polymorph Any Object spell ends. Which happens first? You decide. But even if the soul gets to depart first, it's questionable whether it continues to exist for all eternity even after the abandoned corpse changes back into an inanimate object that should never have had a soul in the first place.

Nonetheless: For as long as a creature created by the Polymorph Any Object spell remains a creature, I believe it has a soul and is affected normally by spells such as the Magic Jar spell and the Trap the Soul spell.

The following recommendation appears on page 88 of the D&D FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (30th of June, 2008):


Now, if the target of [a Polymorph] spell has no class levels (or HD), such as an object affected by Polymorph Any Object, the Sage recommends that the new form be created as a 1st-level commoner, with feats and skills chosen by the DM.

I don't accept the Sage's recommendation as written. By default, when you use the Polymorph Any Object spell to change an object into a creature that normally has a character class, I allow you (as a house rule) to create a first-level warrior with non-elite abilities, using the statistics that appear in the Monster Manual v. 3.5 (2012). Alternatively, if you choose, I allow you to create a first-level commoner with non-elite abilities, feats, and skills chosen by you. For example, I allow you to change a stone into a first-level cook with four ranks in Profession (Cook) skill and the Skill Focus feat applied to this skill.

I also have house rules concerning the question of whether creature freshly created out of an inanimate object can talk. If you use the Polymorph Any Object spell to change any object or creature with an Intelligence score lower than three into a creature whose Intelligence score is three to nine, I allow the creature to gain the ability to understand, and probably also to speak, every language that appears in the creature's description in the Monster Manual. (It makes no difference which languages you yourself can speak.) If you use the Polymorph Any Object spell to change anything into a creature with an Intelligence score of 10 or 11, I allow the creature to gain the ability to read and write in its first language. For every point in the creature's Intelligence bonus, I allow it to become literate in one language besides its first language.

As a house rule, I don't allow a creature that was formerly an inanimate object to have any memory of its existence as an object. Here's the fluff that I use to justify this rule. The only "knowledge" that an object can have is the physical imprint of events upon the matter that comprises it. This imprint becomes conscious in a plant when you cast the Speak with Plants spell, and it becomes conscious in a stone when you cast the Stone Tell spell. However, I believe the imprint is destroyed beyond recognition in an object that is turned into a creature. Consequently, a human who was a stone statue until five minutes ago has a memory that goes back five minutes. She is also able to talk and may function as a first-level cook, shepherdess, washerwoman, hunter, sailor, blacksmith, or warrior, depending on what the spellcaster wanted her to be. She has working knowledge of everything she needs to function as a first-level NPC and possesses all necessary vocabulary. However, she also has no idea what her name is, much less where she comes from, because she knows about nothing that happened before she became conscious five minutes ago.

[Bad Wolf]

For example, I allow you to change a stone into a first-level cook with four ranks in Profession (Cook) skill and the Skill Focus feat applied to this skill.

Now I'm imagining a high-level wizard who briefly creates life to fix him dinner, ignoring the emotional crisis they have when they realise their existential state.

[MoogleMcGee]

Now I'm imagining a high-level wizard who briefly creates life to fix him dinner, ignoring the emotional crisis they have when they realise their existential state.

So Rick and butter bot, gotcha

[Aharon]

Now I'm imagining a high-level wizard who briefly creates life to fix him dinner, ignoring the emotional crisis they have when they realise their existential state.

Like... getting that life-form to pass him butter? :smallbiggrin:

[Acanous]

Now I'm imagining a high-level wizard who briefly creates life to fix him dinner, ignoring the emotional crisis they have when they realise their existential state.

....
Yes... fix him dinner.

I’m thinking of a few more [Vile] uses of the spell, myself.

[Heliomance]

Death is the moment when the soul leaves the body (provided that a creature has a dual nature), but it's also the moment when the Polymorph Any Object spell ends. Which happens first? You decide. But even if the soul gets to depart first, it's questionable whether it continues to exist for all eternity even after the abandoned corpse changes back into an inanimate object that should never have had a soul in the first place.

That has potential for a fascinating NPC, probably a villain. Someone using PAO to manufacture souls, by transfiguring inanimate objects then killing them with a thinuan (sp?) weapon.

Also what happens if you PAO an inanimate object into an undead creature?

[Duke of Urrel]

Also what happens if you PAO an inanimate object into an undead creature?

I don't believe this is possible. The Polymorph Any Object spell is still subject to the following rule from the description of the Polymorph spell.


The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin.

No undead.

I won't comment on the possible psychological distress that a creature may have if it was an inanimate object until recently, except to point out that it may experience no distress at all. Remember that the general rule is that a polymorphed creature keeps the personality of the creature that it was before it was polymorphed. An inanimate object has no personality, but if any element of its former being is preserved in the personality of the creature that it becomes when it's polymorphed, surely it is wondrously indifferent to its strange new life and regards it with equanimity. A human cook would have the following attitude, I think. "I have no idea what my name is, ma'am, but since I'm going to cook for you, maybe you could come up with one. That would make our interactions easier. And we should talk about my wage, too." The creature is Indifferent, not Friendly, but not Unfriendly, either. And I'm pretty sure its alignment is purely Neutral unless its form dictates otherwise.

As for exploitive uses of creatures that were formerly objects, I imagine they are much more often promised pay than they are actually paid. When it's paycheck time, they get polymorphed back into the objects that they were before.

[SangoProduction]

So, can you create living creatures adnosium and sacrifice them to evil gods for infinite [resource]...all without the local townsfolk getting angry at you and sending an adventurer after you?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

So, can you create living creatures adnosium ad nauseum and sacrifice them to evil gods for infinite [resource]...all without the local townsfolk getting angry at you and sending an adventurer after you?Oftentimes, the game makes it REALLY easy to do stuff that NPCs are too dumb to make use of, so they go the hard way. Like sacrifice rules. Even if PAO doesn't work for that, you can always summon/call celestial creatures and sacrifice them. Or the building rules. It costs a fighter hundreds of thousands or millions of gp to do what a wizard can do for free with fabricate and some wall and summoning spells.

[Nifft]

Now I'm imagining a high-level wizard who briefly creates life to fix him dinner, ignoring the emotional crisis they have when they realise their existential state.

"Servitor tears salt the soup."