Is that another WLD thread? (ha! as if....)

[Yael]

So, I'm planning on running the World's Largest Dungeon on roll20 soon, either for the rollcon (I think that's the name, I just knew about it), but now that I'm reading through it, I can clearly see how flawed it is, especially on some stuff like the early levels. And considering how summoning is basically banned, so is researching for spells and stuff, I'd like to know if someone could share some insight on running the game, some experiences (as DM or players, both are useful), and if some places need special attention to be fixed (I'm working on the non-existent loot, for example.)

Thanks! :smallbiggrin:

[Acanous]

So, I'm planning on running the World's Largest Dungeon on roll20 soon, either for the rollcon (I think that's the name, I just knew about it), but now that I'm reading through it, I can clearly see how flawed it is, especially on some stuff like the early levels. And considering how summoning is basically banned, so is researching for spells and stuff, I'd like to know if someone could share some insight on running the game, some experiences (as DM or players, both are useful), and if some places need special attention to be fixed (I'm working on the non-existent loot, for example.)

Thanks! :smallbiggrin:

Psionic characters help a good deal.
Especially if you have psi/magic opacity. They can manifest monsters, change damage types to suit the current need, and later on get access to psychic reformation, which is dang near required later on, to make up for lack of down time.
Clerics also do very well, but you knew that. A DMM persist cleric, psion, bard and crusader are what you’re really looking for to start this dungeon off. As they level, you might see stuff like DMM persist cheese, dark chaos shuffling, the bard going Virtuoso into Sublime Chord and becoming a T1 caster with cool shennanigans, and the Crusader could end up a Ruby Knight... but that’s actually OK for the endless dungeon. Because of the severely limited resources and lack of down time, most of the really broken stuff just doesn’t work. By the time they can actually hate chain or Wish loop or create a fast time area, they’re far enough in that you really don’t care so much anymore.

Anyhow, the important stuff there is: ability to gain spells/powers without resources, the ability to heal endlessly without spellcasting, the ability to adapt to the changing dungeon with a rather fixed build and very little prep time, and of course, as always, the ability to hit all the relevant skill checks.

(The lack of a rogue can really hurt, but your bard can dip and change it out later. Or your crusader, doesn’t hurt having the extra d6.)

[Fizban]

Might I suggest searching for the past threads for "world's largest dungeon" and "WLD" ? 'Cause there's been plenty of threads. Narrowing those down to those I've posted in, we have (and stuff I talked about):
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?556288-World-s-Largest-Dungeon (wherein the OP has an oversized caster-heavy party)
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?530004-3-0-3-5-Hardest-Adventure-Modules (wherein I'm reminded of some nasty tricks)
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514175-WLD-Survival-Advice (necromancer wizard spell selection)
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?502186-World-s-largest-dungeon-character (cleric options, positioning, ancestral relic, hints, summoning ban)
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?218343-Surviving-the-World-s-Largest-Dungeon-3-5 (wherein there are some lists of things for the DM to think about and I argue with the OP about the point of a megadungeon)
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?212580-WLD-help (from back in 2011, wherein I see the dungeon as blatantly trying to screw you and offer some basic "must-haves" before extoling the virtues of Trapsmith and Ancestral Relic [after I show up on page 3])

In reverse-chronological order so newest first. As I mention on page 2 of Hardest Adventure Modules, the thing is that WLD is already designed around the fact that it's a megadungeon, built with only core materials. The PCs do not need to be (and really should not be) "WLD characters" at all- they only need to fulfill the standard party of frontliner, trap guy, Cleric, and "arcanist." Though I was reminded of a number of gotchas in the early areas that my group never encountered, I still think that if you're searching for traps and run when you're outmatched it's more than doable with a bog standard core party (at least until fight one of the endbosses), no need for infinite ammo or guaranteed magic items or super combos, as long as you actually work as a unit rather than a bunch of squabbling murder-hobos.

If you normally run a game where you must regularly customize and optimize monsters and encounter situations in order to challenge the PCs, then you're essentially going to have to either re-write literally the entire dungeon, or run it so completely flat that the players will overconfidence themselves into their own challenges. A megadungeon is actually the perfect example of a situation where the PCs can pick their battles and show up as rested as they want (unless the DM lays down some hard limits to stop them), which is both part of why a standard core-only party with those poor magic items can run it, and part of why an optimized party will crush it. Either way, it cannot be stressed enough how it says right there in the book that normal xp rules should not apply, and the only reliable way to make sure the PCs are the right level for an area is to level them up when the DM says so.

[Mike Miller]

Fizban has excellent advice.

Also, I just finished a campaign of this on roll20. If you want a more in-depth analysis of what you are about to undertake, send me a PM. I am at work so I can't give a good response now.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Summoning is a very important tool in the WLD. Because the writers were stupid, it's a free source of distraction fodder, food, shapechanging study material (if required), and pets, especially if you have ways to befriend animals and other critters (Handle Animal, Diplomacy, and charm/dominate spells).

The WLD "bans" BFC spells like web, when a spellbook in the early game contains web...

*Sigh*

[Kesnit]

I ran WLD from Sections A through J. To keep from driving myself and my players nuts, I added some houserules and tweeks.

The biggest tweek is that I added a one-way sled to the first room. Non-living stuff (read: loot and dead bodies) can go in and out, but living (which includes undead) cannot lave on the sled. I envisioned a town has grown over the portal whose economy is based on stuff adventurers have sent out. This allows the PCs to sell stuff they don't need, and get stuff they want. I also added slotless items that would teleport PCs from anywhere in the dungeon to the starting room and then back. (Think Town Portals from Diablo, but with no use limit.) The first room was safe, but no natural healing, spell recovery, etc. could happen there. (This would allow the party to wait for an order if they wanted, but kept them from going back there every night to sleep.)

I started the PCs at LVL 4, which is way overlevel for Section A, but it keeps them from dying. Leveling was done each time they moved to a new section.

I highly recommend your party have a way to deal with traps. The standard Bag of Tricks will not work. I also recommend looking at encounter traps from Complete Scoundrel. Most all of the traps are "find trap/disable trap" variety, and it is nice to mix it up some.