KOTOR Saga Edition - Building a ranged droid

[heavyfuel]

So my last character died, and I'm thinking of having a Droid as my next character. Unfortunately, it seems impossible to have a decent character who isn't a jedi.

Seriously, Jedi get all the cool tricks. They have so many defenses and because they add level instead of 1/2 level to damage, they also get the best offense. Force Powers that target Will are damn near irresistible and only a really bad roll (like a 1 or 2) on their UTF skill will make it fail.

I wanted to make the Droid focused on ranged weapons.

A Droid mostly because they are immune to Mind Trick which translates to "stay out of the combat for 10 rounds running in fear cuz that's balanced somehow" and Ranged weapons because I can try to kite the lightsaber dudes, but since every single jedi gets the deflection thing making it twice as hard to hit them, I'm not sure it's worth it. While we don't fight jedi exclusively, there are usually a few of them plus they are always the bosses.

So, is it possible to make a character that can actually do stuff in combat with a blaster? We are currently level 8.

Thanks!

[The Glyphstone]

Is this Saga edition, or is KOTOR a ruleset in its own right? If the former, IIRC flamethrowers and grenades are the default anti Jedi weapons.

[GodEnigma]

Assuming this is Saga Edition from 1/2 level thing but I don't recall jedi getting thier full level over 1/2 for everyone else unless I missed something somewhere.

On to your question I'm afb atm but I found a droid solider put out way more damage on average than our party jedi. I forget the extacts of the build at the time as it was some years back, but I do recall it using a feat chain to shell a fair handful of dice using full auto on weapons. I'll have to go back and check when I get back to my books though.

As to the jedi and thier tricks... in saga defelection is a talent they have to take, a good one mind you, but one less talent they can spend elsewhere and I want to say it only worked once a turn or some such. As to the UtF that be kinda bad if certain feats are allowed... UtF can become rediculously good if for example a person takes skill focus for it early on but it does level out after awhile. Of course this si assuming player made jedi the statblocks might look different in truth we never fought many jedi or sith.

In the end it shoud be very doable to make a blaster user but I'll have to double check a bit later.

[CharonsHelper]

1. Use the Force can be OP for the first several levels - mostly if anyone nabs Skill Focus for it. I would suggest a houserule either nerfing or not allowing Skill Focus until level 7-9ish. However, since you're already at level 8, this doesn't seem like a huge problem for your table.

2. If I recall - droids can actually be rather OP as they get all sorts of gadgets/gizmos for little to no cost relative to the meat-bags. Frankly - as GM I'd be dubious about allowing one.

3. Aside from the aforementioned Use the Force - in Saga Edition the Jedi are pretty much balanced with other combat focused characters, though both will be noticeably better in a fight than a more skill based class such as a Noble. However, those support characters can still pull their weight in combat and do more outside of it.

4. General tactical note: in Saga Edition everyone who isn't a Jedi should be hugging cover virtually all of the time - and even Jedi should use cover when they can.

[heavyfuel]

Is this Saga edition, or is KOTOR a ruleset in its own right? If the former, IIRC flamethrowers and grenades are the default anti Jedi weapons.

It's Saga but we're using the Kotor book as well.

Will take a look at flamethrowers, they seem promising.


Assuming this is Saga Edition from 1/2 level thing but I don't recall jedi getting thier full level over 1/2 for everyone else unless I missed something somewhere.

On to your question I'm afb atm but I found a droid solider put out way more damage on average than our party jedi. I forget the extacts of the build at the time as it was some years back, but I do recall it using a feat chain to shell a fair handful of dice using full auto on weapons. I'll have to go back and check when I get back to my books though.

In the end it shoud be very doable to make a blaster user but I'll have to double check a bit later.

It is Saga indeed.

I saw a build recently on the 3.5 forum about a melee droid dealing really high damage, but we already have 2 melees in the group, so I'm looking for ranged one.

If you remember anything, I'm very interested in help with this build


1. Use the Force can be OP for the first several levels - mostly if anyone nabs Skill Focus for it. I would suggest a houserule either nerfing or not allowing Skill Focus until level 7-9ish.

2. If I recall - droids can actually be rather OP as they get all sorts of gadgets/gizmos for little to no cost relative to the meat-bags. Frankly - as GM I'd be dubious about allowing one.

3. Aside from the aforementioned Use the Force - in Saga Edition the Jedi are pretty much balanced with other combat focused characters, though both will be noticeably better in a fight than a more skill based class such as a Noble. However, those support characters can still pull their weight in combat and do more outside of it.

4. General tactical note: in Saga Edition everyone who isn't a Jedi should be hugging cover virtually all of the time - and even Jedi should use cover when they can.

Unfortunately, houserulling is not up to me this game, otherwise I would.

If Droids are OP, they're no more OP than UTF that's for sure. And do you remember the specifics on what made them OP?

[GodEnigma]

If Droids are OP, they're no more OP than UTF that's for sure. And do you remember the specifics on what made them OP?

As I recall droids had a few different ways of building "playable ones" and one of those options droids powers were more or less limited by money than anything else. Thus if you had the credits you could build a real mosnter out of a droid. As an example we once had an astromech droid made out of cortosis weave (the stuff that turns off lightsabers when struck) becasue someone had the funds to do it, and that said nothing of some of the more destructive additions that probably shouldn't have all fit on the droid but there as there were no rules really stopping it then we had bascailly Boba-D2.

[CharonsHelper]

If Droids are OP, they're no more OP than UTF that's for sure. And do you remember the specifics on what made them OP?

By level 8 UTF shouldn't be all that bad, even with Skill Focus.

And as Enigma said - the rules for building droids are way too wide open - so to have one be a PC the GM should be looking over your shoulder to keep you from making anything too wacky.

As to defending against Use the Force - if you're going to be fighting a lot of Jedi/Sith etc., you should probably snag the Unstoppable Force feat - giving +5 bonus to Fortitude Defense and Will Defense against any attack or effect requiring a Use the Force check.

The Misfortune Talent "Stymie" is also pretty awesome when up against force users as it can give a -5 to any skill as a swift action (I believe the tree can be taken by either a Scoundrel or Bounty Hunter). If force users are few and far between it's mediocre, but giving a -5 to Use the Force on a Sith Sorcerer boss is freakin' awesome for burning your swift action.

Between the two of them a foe will be at -10 with Use the Force so that even with Skill Focus they'd have to roll pretty well to do much to you.

Of note though: You seem to be stuck on Mind Trick's ability to make a target flee, but remember that the force user has to be a higher level to actually use it at all. If they try it and turn out to be the same/lower level, they just burned a power and wasted their turn no matter what they rolled. And if it DOES hit you, your buddy can just poke you to snap you out of it.

At low levels Force Lightning is kinda OP simply for doing 8d6 damage with 4d6 on a miss (no table worth the time WOULDN'T houserule that for a level 1-3 character - obviously the designers didn't think about anyone snagging it that early) but it shouldn't be too bad by level 8. Force Grip can be rough if there was theoretically a 1v1 scenario, but in a group your buddies can just shoot them to break their concentration.


Final note - Deflect is good, but it's not actually nearly as good as you might think if you run the #s. (Even besides doing nothing against grenades/flame etc.)

If theoretically you have a 50% chance of hitting a Jedi and their Use the Force roll is the same as your attack roll (both for simplicity), it would seem that your chance to hit them would drop to 1/4 (with 1/2 * 1/2). Wrong! It's because as the shooter, you only roll once, and so the Jedi will only ever try to deflect an above average roll. On an average hit, they only have a 25% chance of successfully deflecting, meaning that with Deflect you still have a 37.5% chance of hitting.

That makes Deflect comparable to a +2-3 Reflex against the first hit, and all but worthless against anything but mooks after that. That means that standing in the open with a lightsaber & Deflect still isn't as good as getting that +5 Reflex for hugging cover - not to mention that that helps against AOEs.

Now - if a character has a jacked up Use the Force score it can be much better, especially since those builds tend to have rather sub-par Reflex scores (Since they're going with CHA & WIS, they don't jack up their DEX and likely don't spend the feats & talents needed to make armor viable), so they need it. Frankly - I wouldn't bother taking Deflect on a Jedi combat beast since I'm either using a DEX build or wearing heavy armor to jack up my Reflex.

Edit/Final Tips: Everyone in Saga Edition should embrace multi-classing, ESPECIALLY anyone who isn't a Jedi. Bounce around between the classes to pick up the Talents you want (though you can overdo it and lose too much BAB).

Also - anyone who isn't jacking up their DEX will eventually need to snag the two armor talents (lets you still add your level to Reflex in armor & get 1/2 the armor bonus) to keep your Reflex from falling behind, and they're not bad choices for anyone - though I think droids might have different rules for the whole armor thing.