Help with a warlock concept

[Hukkle]

Hi everybody !

This post will most likely center around a question that may as well already have been asked a thousand times: [Is Eldritch Blast a must have for warlocks ?] Let me develop that question a bit more :

All warlock concepts/guides I've seen take the eldritch blast. I understand well that this cantrip is the soul of the warlock, however when I decided to create a warlock concept (for a future use who knows ?) that didn't sit well with eldritch blast (on a RP level).

A quick description of it for you to understand .
Race: Aasimar (Scourge)
Class: Warlock 3 / (Rogue 1 ?) / Warlock 19 (or 20)
Background: Charlatan

Go Celestial Patron and Pact of the Tome.
Get Deception/Intimidation/Religion/Sleight of Hand + Investigation if I multiclass Rogue

From that I think you pretty much know where this is going. This warlock will just use his talents and power to trick people. However my problem with eldritch blast is that it doesn't fit him, as in his favorite identity to assume is that of a priest/cleric. And I really see him in the first levels trying to pass for a Cleric around the party he'll be adventuring with. Thanks to the celestial patron he gets the Sacred Flame and Light Cantrip which will be useful for the first two levels since they're cleric cantrips and he's gonna get the Pact of the Tome just to get some other cantrips that will help him better deepen the lie.
So as warlock cantrips he's got : Mage Hand and Toll the Dead. (Sacred Flame and Light as part of the Celestial Patron) and at third level he'll get Resistance, Shillelagh and Spare the Dying as Pact of the Tome Features.

About the Invocations, the reason I also didn't want to take Eldritch Blast is that if I can't spare invocations to improve it.
In the early levels i will surely take something along the line of Mask of Many Faces, Bane (Cleric impersonation), Book of ancient Secrets, Aspect of the Moon (really not sure about this one, it feels off to me), Trickster's escape.
These will be the early Invocations I'll chose. I can maybe spare the Aspect of the Moon invocation to get an Eldritch Blast improvement but then it'll be somehow late. Around level 7 without Rogue 1 and level 8 with it.

To reformulate my question : Is ELdritch Blast a must have or can a Warlock still be relevant without it at high levels ?
But to keep the illusion the only cantrip I could let go is Mage Hand.


And for another question about my concept : Is it really worth taking a level in Rogue to get the expertise in Deception and Investigation ? (Since that's pretty much all I'm taking it for)


Thanks for your answers !

P.S. : If you want more info, ask me and i'll try to answer my best about this concept !

[Brawndo]

To reformulate my question : Is ELdritch Blast a must have or can a Warlock still be relevant without it at high levels ?
But to keep the illusion the only cantrip I could let go is Mage Hand.

Well if you're worried about consistent combat effectiveness, I think Eldritch Blast is on the Warlock list specifically because of the smaller number of spell slots you have (per short rest). I think you'll probably find yourself falling behind in that regard without EB.

Since that might not be your main concern, please add or subtract weight from my statement accordingly. Also don't forget that every time you level, you can change your spell list. Whatever you choose at the beginning, you're not married to it.

Edit: To add that Eldritch Blast opens up some possibilities for battlefield control and very long-range sniping when buffed with Invocations, so that's something to consider.



And for another question about my concept : Is it really worth taking a level in Rogue to get the expertise in Deception and Investigation ? (Since that's pretty much all I'm taking it for)

The Beguiling Influence Invocation would give you proficiency in Deception and Persuasion while still playing a mono-class Warlock, but no Investigation.

If you dip a level of Rogue, the only thing you're ultimately giving up would be the level 20 capstone Warlock ability, which isn't so great that I'd hate to miss it and only even matters if the game AND the character last long enough to make it to 20.

[Unoriginal]

Eldritch Blast is NOT required for a Warlock, at high level or not.

The Fire Newt Warlocks of Imix don't have it, for example, they use Firebolt.

Thing is, Eldritch Blast is the best attack cantrip of the game. Doesn't make the other bad, just less good than the best.

So basically you'll be like a Fighter who uses daggers as their main weapons. Nothing wrong with it, but it's not going to be the best damage output.

So in other word you'll be fine.

[Talionis]

Bladelocks do make for acceptable damage over time. It will be more dangerous to be in melee and you'll have to really invest a lot of invocations and feats into the build in order to get a comparable damage output. You'll only be slightly behind the Eldritch Blast damage. Its one of the very nice things about 5E, you won't fall too much behind in damage by doing what you want to do.

The other option is to refluff the Eldritch Blast. Its force damage, but it could be force "daggers" you "throw" or a "force bow" that fires "force arrows".

[CantigThimble]

Is there any particular reason you have toll of the dead? What's stopping you from swapping that out for eldritch blast?

Even without any invocations, force damage, attack rolls and the ability to split attacks makes eldritch blast the best combat cantrip.

If the problem is flavor, then given that you're a celestial warlock I don't see any problem with flavoring eldritch blast as blasts of divine light.

Also, what invocations ARE you taking?

[Vebadu]

Wrong guys. The best cantrip is Booming blade.

[Vogie]

EB normally is required, due to the charisma scaling available through agonizing blast.

However, the Celestial warlock specifically gives that same scaling to fire & radiant spells at level 6, so you can do effectively the same thing with Sacred Flame, or Fire Bolt (and produce flame, to a lesser extent) via Tome Pact.

You can mimic things like Eldritch Spear invocation with the Spell Sniper feat

[Hukkle]

The Beguiling Influence Invocation would give you proficiency in Deception and Persuasion while still playing a mono-class Warlock, but no Investigation.

If you dip a level of Rogue, the only thing you're ultimately giving up would be the level 20 capstone Warlock ability, which isn't so great that I'd hate to miss it and only even matters if the game AND the character last long enough to make it to 20.

I actually already get the Deception skill proficiency with my Charlatan Background, so I feel that would be half an Invocation wasted. That can still be a solution but I don't really like it.



Is there any particular reason you have toll of the dead? What's stopping you from swapping that out for eldritch blast?

Even without any invocations, force damage, attack rolls and the ability to split attacks makes eldritch blast the best combat cantrip.

If the problem is flavor, then given that you're a celestial warlock I don't see any problem with flavoring eldritch blast as blasts of divine light.

Also, what invocations ARE you taking?

The reason I want toll the dead is becasue I want a double level deception. My warlock wants the party to think he's a Cleric and I want the players to think he's a Cleric (though I know around level 3-4 it becomes really difficult, but hopefully they'll already know by then).
The invocations I am taking will surely be (be reminded that this is only a concept, I have yet to think it through thoroughly) :

Mask of many Faces (deception, trickery, etc no need for an explanation)
Bane (as to better emulate a Priest)
Book of Ancient Secrets (Ritual spells)
Trickster's Escape (I think it's worth taking in order not to be locked down)
Ascendant Step (Because Levitate can always come in handy and coupled with the lvl3 aasimar racial can help in some Performance/Deception rolls)
Ghostly Gaze (That one may change, it's really to go full investigator/nothing escapes my sight that I could get were I to dip rogue)
Shroud of Shadows (Well Invisibility)
Master of Myriad Forms (cf Mask of Many Faces)
Witch Sight (cf Ghostly Gaze)

I may miss one or two but you get the idea.



EB normally is required, due to the charisma scaling available through agonizing blast.

However, the Celestial warlock specifically gives that same scaling to fire & radiant spells at level 6, so you can do effectively the same thing with Sacred Flame, or Fire Bolt (and produce flame, to a lesser extent) via Tome Pact.

You can mimic things like Eldritch Spear invocation with the Spell Sniper feat

Thanks for the Insight, I'll keep it in mind. i actually asked that to really decide upon taking or not EB. however, were I to play such a character I hope that it would be in a RP heavy campaign rather than Battle heavy. So that's why I'm asking. If I were to get fights after fights I'd choose EB without a doubt.

[Vogie]

Thanks for the Insight, I'll keep it in mind. i actually asked that to really decide upon taking or not EB. however, were I to play such a character I hope that it would be in a RP heavy campaign rather than Battle heavy. So that's why I'm asking. If I were to get fights after fights I'd choose EB without a doubt.

Right... but what I'm saying is that you don't need to, because you chose Celestial Tome as your archetype.

Eldritch Blast with Agonizing Blast invocation is a d10 leveled cantrip that you can add your Charisma modifier to

Fire Bolt is a d10 leveled cantrip that you can add your Charisma modifier to.

If you're going into "fights after fights," your character specifically gets another invocation because they don't need Agonizing blast to make their Cantrip keep up.