The best Sorcerer Gish?

[Longcat]

Let's discuss Gishes that utilize Sorcerer as part of their build. IMO, Sorcerer brings these things to a Gish build:
-Access to SCAG melee cantrips.
-A base AC of 13+Dex if you go Dragon.
-Access to Cleric spells based on Charisma (if going Divine Soul)
-Metamagic, especially Quicken Spell.
-A selection of useful utility spells like Shield, Absorb Elements, Misty Step, Fly and Mirror Image.

Classes that work well with Sorcerer:
-Warlock: Hexblade gives us access to a Charisma SAD build, with bonus proficiencies in medium armor and shields.
-Bard: Valor and Swords Bard get access to Extra Attack and medium armor.
-Paladin: Heavy Armor, Fighting Style, Divine Smite and Charisma synergy.
-Fighter: Heavy Armor, Fighting Style, Action Surge.

Among those options, I believe Hexblade/Sorcerer and Paladin/Sorcerer make for the best sorcerer based gishes. The former is completely Cha SAD with at least 1 level of Hexblade, and with at least 3 or 5 levels of Hexblade, can wield even heavy weapons or gain an extra attack. The latter can be really tanky and has access to excellent burst even in a more defensive setup such as Longsword+Shield and Defensive fighting style. If your DM allows for GWF to reroll smite dice, it becomes viable as well.

What are some of your favorite Sorcerer gish builds?

[Dualswinger]

Another note about Warlock multiclassing is access to Eldritch Smite, which your sorc slots can act as a battery for, making a Paladin dip almost pointless

[B0nes]

Another note about Warlock multiclassing is access to Eldritch Smite, which your sorc slots can act as a battery for, making a Paladin dip almost pointless

There is a critical difference between Paladin and Warlock smites. Paladin smites can be used with sorcerer spell slots but the Warlock smite must use Warlock slots.

[Dualswinger]

There is a critical difference between Paladin and Warlock smites. Paladin smites can be used with sorcerer spell slots but the Warlock smite must use Warlock slots.

....well how about that. I missed that. Thank you

[MightyK]

Among those options, I believe Hexblade/Sorcerer and Paladin/Sorcerer make for the best sorcerer based gishes.

Or even all three: Hexplade 1 / pala 2 / Sorc X

[nickl_2000]

If you are allowed to use UA, the stone sorcerer is a very effective single class gish. I have a player playing on in my game who uses a reach weapon, spell sniper, and booming blade (often twinned) and will often lay down massive damage each turn.

[CTurbo]

^I was going to suggest Stone Sorcerer

[Fire Tarrasque]

There's the new Giant Soul sorcerer from UA.
Sorcadin or Hexblade Sorlock is probably best

[Longcat]

Sadly, I'll have to stick to official sources for this one, so no UA.

[Nifft]

Let's discuss Gishes that utilize Sorcerer as part of their build. IMO, Sorcerer brings these things to a Gish build:
-Access to SCAG melee cantrips.
-A base AC of 13+Dex if you go Dragon.
-Access to Cleric spells based on Charisma (if going Divine Soul)
-Metamagic, especially Quicken Spell.
-A selection of useful utility spells like Shield, Absorb Elements, Misty Step, Fly and Mirror Image.

Classes that work well with Sorcerer:
-Warlock: Hexblade gives us access to a Charisma SAD build, with bonus proficiencies in medium armor and shields.
-Bard: Valor and Swords Bard get access to Extra Attack and medium armor.
-Paladin: Heavy Armor, Fighting Style, Divine Smite and Charisma synergy.
-Fighter: Heavy Armor, Fighting Style, Action Surge.

Among those options, I believe Hexblade/Sorcerer and Paladin/Sorcerer make for the best sorcerer based gishes. The former is completely Cha SAD with at least 1 level of Hexblade, and with at least 3 or 5 levels of Hexblade, can wield even heavy weapons or gain an extra attack. The latter can be really tanky and has access to excellent burst even in a more defensive setup such as Longsword+Shield and Defensive fighting style. If your DM allows for GWF to reroll smite dice, it becomes viable as well.

What are some of your favorite Sorcerer gish builds?

What ability scores do you have?

Hexblade is great in situations where you have overall poor ability scores, or just one good score. Medium armor + attack with Cha means you can get away with low Str and low-ish Dex.

But if you've got a very high Str and Cha, then Hexblade isn't worth taking. Paladin+Sorc alone, or some other Warlock options, might serve you better.

[Longcat]

Default point buy for me. Starting level is 9.

[Daithi]

I like Fighter-11/Sorcerer-6/Warlock-3

The Warlock-3 gives Hexblade with Pact of Blade (glaive), and Eldritch Blast, Booming Blade, and Hex.
The Fighter-11 gives 3 attacks, plus action surge, and 3 ASIs (Polearm Master, Great Weapon Master).
The Sorcerer-6 gives Quicken/Twinning to double Eldritch Blast and Blooming Blade.

The Hexblade adds CHA modifier and proficiency bonus to hits, 1d6 for Hex, and 3d8 for Booming Blade (at 20th level). The glaive itself is 1d10 and the Great Weapon Master adds another +10. So one hit is--


1d10 (glaive) + 1d6 (hex) + 3d8 (BB) + 6 (prof) + 5 (CHA) + 10 (GWM) = 43.5 aDPH

This is average damage per hit, and you get 3 attacks. However, you can also use Quicken or Twinning to double this for 6 attacks. We can make this 8 attacks with a twinned/quickened action surge. The polearm master feat also gives you a bonus attack. This is a total of 9 attacks, and 9 x 43.5 = 391.5 avg. DPR. There is also the possibility of an opportunity attack when some comes within reach, which polearm master also provides (the Sentinel feat could even add a reaction attack).

So, for an up close melee attack, you are a powerhouse of damage. Extra attacks, Quickening/Twinning, and additional damage riders just freaking pile up. However, you are also a powerhouse of damage at long range as well. This is because Eldritch Blast also synergizes with extra attacks and Quickening/Twinning.


4d10 (EB*4) + 4d6 (Hex*4) + 20 (5 CHA*4) = 56 aDPH

This is average per Eldritch Blast casting (4 bolts at 17th level), but you can use Quicken or Twinning to double this damage to 112. You also get 3 attacks as a fighter and an action surge attack, so we can multiply this by 4, which gives us 448 avg. DPR.

A couple quick notes:
Whenever possible, take the Twinning metamagic as it only costs 1 sorcery point. Quicken costs 2 sorcery points. As a 6th level sorcerer you only 6 sorcery points, so this is going to be nova damage and not something you can sustain. However, even without the quicken/twinning, you'll still be wreaking havoc.

Also, when you Twin Eldritch Blast or Booming Blade need to attack a different opponent, so you won't get to apply the Hex damage on those attacks.

Eldritch Knight is probably the best fighter sub-class for this build. It gets its own spells, which can be useful in their own right, but more importantly can be converted to sorcerer points for more quickening/twinning. At 7th level the Eldritch Knight also gets a bonus attack. However, Polearm Master also gets a bonus attack, and you can only take one of these bonus attacks, so pick your favorite.

Lastly, no mention of various smites have been mentioned. This is because they all require concentration and only last 1 minute. Hex on the other hand lasts an hour or more. Yet, a lot of battles never last 10 rounds, so they may actually be viable. Two things that aren't viable are Shadow Blade and Green Flame Blade. Shadow Blade gets summoned, and an hour is required to bond to your Pact weapon. So not really viable. It would also negate taking Polearm Master and Great Weapon Master, and we really don't want to loose these and their benefits. Green Flame Blade doesn't target one opponent, so it can't be Twinned, which nerfs it for our build.

[I hope I haven't screwed this build up somewhere, but it is certainly possible. I never played the build. I've just put it together on paper.]

[Aleister VII]

At 7th level the Eldritch Knight also gets a bonus attack. However, Polearm Master also gets a bonus attack, and you can only take one of these bonus attacks, so pick your favorite.


Do you mean war magic? PAM bonus attack is more reliable IIRC.

[Daithi]

Do you mean war magic? PAM bonus attack is more reliable IIRC.

Yeah, the war magic feature was what I was referring to. It lets you make a weapon attack as a bonus action when you cast a cantrip (e.g. Booming Blade) as your action. Or you can use the Polearm Master feat for the bonus action. Either way it is another attack, but you only get one bonus action, so its one or the other. I don't think it matters too much which one you choose, but I may be missing some subtlety.