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SpanielBear
2018-06-14, 09:09 AM
Hello there,

Apologies for yet another warlock-themed thread. I promise this is of more general interest than it first appears!

So, my current character is a level 3 GOO tomelock with spell sniper, which means I have currently six cantrips. Trying to make spell choices fun and in character more than out-and-out optimisation, my list currently stands:

Eldritch blast (repelling)
Mage Hand
Chill Touch
Mending
Vicious Mockery
Thorn Whip
*

This feels like a pretty decent list for what I want my character to be- debuffer/manipulator with some useful out-of-combat tricks. However, looking at my class progression I still have two more cantrips to pick, one right around the corner at level 4.

So here is my question- What cantrips have you found yourself a)using regularly, b)having fun with, c) "Oh my god I can't believe you haven't already got this"? Bearing in mind I am limited to the warlock spell list and not planning on multi-classing.

My current thoughts are:

Poison Spray. This is would be my 'safe' choice- it's a damage cantrip that works on con, which enemies with good wisdom may be vulnerable to. I seem to roll badly on spell attacks, so save vs. spells are attractive. Also, possible warcasting shennanigans. But honestly, I already have 4 damaging cantrips and I'd only go with this if I don't feel enthused by another choice.

Friends. Pros- the mental manipulation is right in my patron's bailwick. Out of combat utility is a nice touch. Cons- I'm not likely to get mask of many faces for a while, if ever, and so I'll have to deal with an angry npc head on when the spell runs out.

Prestidigitation. Pros- loads of potential effects. Plays into my character's background as someone new to magic and finding their feet wth it. Cons- are those effects particularly meaningful? How much will they allow me to help the party/progress a story?

Honourable Mention: Minor Illusion. Yes, this is a great spell with tons of use. However, another party member is an Arcane Trickster, and I want to steer clear of illusion spells in general so as not to step on their toes.

So yeah. Throwing this out there, what cantrips have you enjoyed, what advice would you give? Anecdotes welcome! I love the warlock so far, and part of the fun is finding ways to stretch my at-will abilities as far as possible, so I can save the spells for crunch time.



*For those interested, my spell list currently is Hex, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Armour of Agathys and Suggestion. I also have Eldritch Sight, and given I'm Tomelock, Book of Ancient Secrets is my next invocation auto-pick.

Sigreid
2018-06-14, 09:16 AM
I've been using mold earth to prepare battlefields and defensible camps/mini forts.

SpanielBear
2018-06-14, 09:21 AM
I've been using mold earth to prepare battlefields and defensible camps/mini forts.

See that's good, but unfortunately I don't think it's on the Warlock spell list. To clarify, my free "Any spell list" Tome cantrips have already been picked and I don't think I can change those ones out. Also I'm quite happy with them. :smallsmile:

If you can think of a way to get that kind of effect with a Warlock cantrip though, I'm all ears!

Sigreid
2018-06-14, 09:23 AM
I couldn't remember if it was on the list or not. Sorry about that.

nickl_2000
2018-06-14, 09:38 AM
Alright, so from my reading you get
2 Warlock
1 Spell Sniper
3 Tome cantrips that count as warlock.

Warlock:
Eldritch blast (repelling) is the obvious choice since it's the warlocks bread and butter
Mage Hand

Spell Sniper - This needs to have an attack roll and be Cha based
Chill Touch/Firebolt/Ray of Frost

Chill touch has a nice rider and does necrotic damage
Firebolt can light things on fire (always good)
Ray of Frost not really needed since you can get the same thing from EB and an invocation, plus you can hit with EB from a silly long distance


You have good damaging spells at this point, other than the possible lack of a melee cantrip if you take warcaster.

3 Tome choices
Mending - a good utility cantrip to fix stuff and hide where you were
Prestidigitation - You said this fits your characters backstory, so its a wonderful choice
Viscous Mockery - Your only save based cantrip for high ac opponents
Thorn Whip - You can move people towards you with Grasp of Hadar, but this, primal savagery, or shocking grasp work well with Warcaster
Guidance - Concentration, so it could be an issue with Hex. However, this spell is cast ALL the time outside of combat
Friends - Social tier as long as you don't mind them hating you afterwards
Mold Earth - Can be used to control the battlefield and go under doors. A good utility cantrip
Shape Water - Less useful than mold earth, but still solid utility
Control Flames - Probably isn't worth it for you.
Light - since you have a feat at level 1 I assume that you are a variant human. Could be helpful so you can see
Produce Flame - Can take care of vision issues and give you fire damage so spell sniper can be used for something else
Gust - Decent control cantrip
Spare the dying - only if you have no cleric



If it were me I would go
EB
Prestidigitation
Chill Touch/Firebolt (probably firebolt since I like the option of setting stuff on fire)
Viscous Mockery
Guidance
Mold Earth

Then you can pick up Friends at level 4 when you get your next cantrip.

I would skip Mage Hand and Minor Illusion since the AT can do those and it leaves you more options.


Just my two coppers

nickl_2000
2018-06-14, 09:40 AM
See that's good, but unfortunately I don't think it's on the Warlock spell list. To clarify, my free "Any spell list" Tome cantrips have already been picked and I don't think I can change those ones out. Also I'm quite happy with them. :smallsmile:

If you can think of a way to get that kind of effect with a Warlock cantrip though, I'm all ears!

Okay, so what cantrips do you have set verses free to change?

kamap
2018-06-14, 09:57 AM
You can combine minor illusions, make a door together or one provides a vision of a dog hidden in the shadows, the other one lets it growl menacingly or making a band together one plays the guitar the other the drums, ...

Prestidigitation is fun for out of combat situations:
Aakh I've got goblin brains spattered all over my nice clothes. "prestidigitation"
Its a freaking hot day and there is no cooled beer around only luke warm water. "prestidigitation, prestidigitation" now that luke warm water is cooled and tastes like beer.
Wanna poison someone without them tasting it. "prestidigitation"
On those cold lonely nights atleast you'll have a warm bedroll.
Want to time an hour color something with prestidigitation and wait till the color fades.
Give a start singal to someone, give them something colored with prestidigitation and later on when you want to signal them, cancel the prestidigitation and the color poofs away.
So many fun things to do with prestidigitation.

SpanielBear
2018-06-14, 09:59 AM
Okay, so what cantrips do you have set verses free to change?

The ones listed are set- Mending, Vicious Mockery, Mage Hand, Eldritch Blast, Chill Touch, Thorn Whip.

I picked these up a few sessions ago and I've had fun using them. Our DM is very generous and would probably let me swap some out, but that would honestly feel a bit weird. Plus, like I say, they're fun!

I picked up Mage Hand before our thief decided he wanted to go Arcane Trickster. In all honesty, I can see more opportunities for synergy with us both having it, especially if one is invisible and we co-ordinate. But outside of that, I want to give him space to do his thing and illusions aren't really my patrons style- it's not exactly subtle. My mage hand is a tentacle.

Other party members- Moon Druid, Ancients Paladin and Battlemaster Fighter.

So yeah, it's specifically the level 4 cantrip I'm looking at, something that will be relevant and fun to use, not just another dice to roll at people.

Prestidigitation would fit my character, but I guess my problem with it is its quite open ended? I can foresee a lot of discussion about what is and is not permissible with it, which could bog things down. Hence why I was asking what other people did with it if they used it, to get some ideas.
Same with Friends tbf, the npc turning hostile after use is a pretty big downside. I get why, it'd be a very powerful cantrip otherwise, but I m eager to hear some tricks for its use (other than mask of many faces which isn't a bad trick, I just would have to be at least level 11 to access it...).


You can combine minor illusions, make a door together or one provides a vision of a dog hidden in the shadows, the other one lets it growl menacingly or making a band together one plays the guitar the other the drums, ...

Prestidigitation is fun for out of combat situations:
Aakh I've got goblin brains spattered all over my nice clothes. "prestidigitation"
Its a freaking hot day and there is no cooled beer around only luke warm water. "prestidigitation, prestidigitation" now that luke warm water is cooled and tastes like beer.
Wanna poison someone without them tasting it. "prestidigitation"
On those cold lonely nights atleast you'll have a warm bedroll.
Want to time an hour color something with prestidigitation and wait till the color fades.
Give a start singal to someone, give them something colored with prestidigitation and later on when you want to signal them, cancel the prestidigitation and the color poofs away.
So many fun things to do with prestidigitation.

Oooh I like these! Especially the timing and signalling ideas.

nickl_2000
2018-06-14, 10:04 AM
The ones listed are set- Mending, Vicious Mockery, Mage Hand, Eldritch Blast, Chill Touch, Thorn Whip.

I picked these up a few sessions ago and I've had fun using them. Our DM is very generous and would probably let me swap some out, but that would honestly feel a bit weird. Plus, like I say, they're fun!

I picked up Mage Hand before our thief decided he wanted to go Arcane Trickster. In all honesty, I can see more opportunities for synergy with us both having it, especially if one is invisible and we co-ordinate. But outside of that, I want to give him space to do his thing and illusions aren't really my patrons style- it's not exactly subtle. My mage hand is a tentacle.

Other party members- Moon Druid, Ancients Paladin and Battlemaster Fighter.

So yeah, it's specifically the level 4 cantrip I'm looking at, something that will be relevant and fun to use, not just another dice to roll at people.

Prestidigitation would fit my character, but I guess my problem with it is its quite open ended? I can foresee a lot of discussion about what is and is not permissible with it, which could bog things down. Hence why I was asking what other people did with it if they used it, to get some ideas.
Same with Friends tbf, the npc turning hostile after use is a pretty big downside. I get why, it'd be a very powerful cantrip otherwise, but I m eager to hear some tricks for its use (other than mask of many faces which isn't a bad trick, I just would have to be at least level 11 to access it...).

Alright, so you can only choose from the Warlock list and you have some pretty solid combat choices already in Chill Touch, VM, and EB. I personally don't like friends since it makes enemies in the long run, but that's a play style things for me. The reason why you mention prestidigitation being a problem is why I love it. You can mess with the figher and make his beer warm, you can clean the dirty window that you are trying to peak through to scout, as well at the stuff mentioned before.

I would go with prestidigitation personally over friends.

Sinon
2018-06-14, 10:08 AM
If you can reconsider your non-warlock options, I like Guidance - free bonus to any skill check, as long as you aren't concentrating on something else.

It isn't flashy, but you will use it a lot.

For warlock cantrips, Friends does have a downside, but if you're using it to Intimidate people, they're still intimidated, even if they are now hostile. (Hostile doesn't mean irrational.) Also, if you want to take Mask of Many Faces, you can avoid that hostility fairly easily.

MilkmanDanimal
2018-06-14, 10:24 AM
If you can reconsider your non-warlock options, I like Guidance - free bonus to any skill check, as long as you aren't concentrating on something else.

It isn't flashy, but you will use it a lot.

For warlock cantrips, Friends does have a downside, but if you're using it to Intimidate people, they're still intimidated, even if they are now hostile. (Hostile doesn't mean irrational.) Also, if you want to take Mask of Many Faces, you can avoid that hostility fairly easily.

Guidance is IMO the best non-combat cantrip in the game, as it's eternally useful in almost all situations.

Warlock list-wise, Minor Illusion is just handy; you can make an illusion of a box around yourself to hide or make a noise off in the far corner to distract people. It's just useful. I also like Prestidigitation, but it's really more of a fun flavor thing. I have a character with it who really only uses it to clean up when they get dirty, but it fits the concept.

SpanielBear
2018-06-14, 10:38 AM
Guidance is IMO the best non-combat cantrip in the game, as it's eternally useful in almost all situations.

Warlock list-wise, Minor Illusion is just handy; you can make an illusion of a box around yourself to hide or make a noise off in the far corner to distract people. It's just useful. I also like Prestidigitation, but it's really more of a fun flavor thing. I have a character with it who really only uses it to clean up when they get dirty, but it fits the concept.

I definitely see the benefit of guidance, and did think about it. It's even touch, which combined with a Tome of Rituals familiar could be really tricksy.
Problem I ran into was how to make it fit. My warlock's patron is an eldritch... thing. It's possibly not even aware of the warlock, all he did was read the wrong book and learn some weird symbols. When he draws them in the air, you get soundless whispers, tentacles of pure nothingness forcing their way through cracks in the weave and a lingering smell of ozone. He's convinced himself that the only way to keep his patron placated and 'asleep' is to try to keep it entertained, so it enjoys the dream and doesn't want to wake. Thanks to eldritch sight and being able to physically see the weave he's picking up some spell-skill of his own, which is why mending and prestidigitation would be a good fit. But guidance? Harder to resolve. Also, the paladin is *very* concerned about where all my power comes from, and may not appreciate being caressed by a guiding tentacle...

nickl_2000
2018-06-14, 10:45 AM
I definitely see the benefit of guidance, and did think about it. It's even touch, which combined with a Tome of Rituals familiar could be really tricksy.
Problem I ran into was how to make it fit. My warlock's patron is an eldritch... thing. It's possibly not even aware of the warlock, all he did was read the wrong book and learn some weird symbols. When he draws them in the air, you get soundless whispers, tentacles of pure nothingness forcing their way through cracks in the weave and a lingering smell of ozone. He's convinced himself that the only way to keep his patron placated and 'asleep' is to try to keep it entertained, so it enjoys the dream and doesn't want to wake. Thanks to eldritch sight and being able to physically see the weave he's picking up some spell-skill of his own, which is why mending and prestidigitation would be a good fit. But guidance? Harder to resolve. Also, the paladin is *very* concerned about where all my power comes from, and may not appreciate being caressed by a guiding tentacle...

Guidance does necessarily need to be a gentle guiding touch. Guidance is simply a divine method of making someone do better. For example, my moon Druid patronizingly pats them on the back and tells them "you can do better than that."

You could also threaten them into doing better. A threatening eldritch tentacle around their neck may encourage them to try a little bit harder at something.

Vogie
2018-06-14, 12:15 PM
Something random to think about - Magic Stone. It's on the Warlock Cantrip list.

While yes, it is another damaging cantrip, it allows you to create thrown weapons that scale off your spellcasting modifier... that you can give to your party. That way you can effectively hand out weapons if everyone gets disarmed. And, depending on how your DM rules it, a thrown magic stone by a rogue may be allowed to sneak attack.

Greywander
2018-06-14, 03:22 PM
I know you said you don't want to switch out any of your spells, but I just wanted to point a couple of things out:

First, you can have as many as four cantrips not on the warlock list: 3 from tomelock, 1 from spell sniper. Maybe you don't want that many, but it would be good to consider your options.

Second, Thorn Whip seems redundant (and underpowered) if you ever intend to get the Grasp of Hadar invocation. I'm AFB, but IIRC it's the same effect but from 120 feet away. But maybe you want to save an invocation slot, or maybe you just really like the flavor of the spell (it does fit thematically with a GOO lock).

I'd argue that Guidance is actually incredibly flavorful for a GOO lock. You've tapped into a eldritch source of unfathomable knowledge, driving you to the edge of insanity. This gives you (or anyone you bestow such knowledge to) an uncanny insight into everything you do. Bam, there's your Guidance.

Prestidigitation or Minor Illusion are also solid choices. And yes, you can team up with the Arcane Trickster to do two illusions at once, or one image and one sound. That said, there's also an invocation for at-will Silent Image, so you might not want Minor Illusion if you go for that (however, Silent Image, as the name would suggest, can't create sound).

SpanielBear
2018-06-14, 03:56 PM
I know you said you don't want to switch out any of your spells, but I just wanted to point a couple of things out:

First, you can have as many as four cantrips not on the warlock list: 3 from tomelock, 1 from spell sniper. Maybe you don't want that many, but it would be good to consider your options.

Second, Thorn Whip seems redundant (and underpowered) if you ever intend to get the Grasp of Hadar invocation. I'm AFB, but IIRC it's the same effect but from 120 feet away. But maybe you want to save an invocation slot, or maybe you just really like the flavor of the spell (it does fit thematically with a GOO lock).

I'd argue that Guidance is actually incredibly flavorful for a GOO lock. You've tapped into a eldritch source of unfathomable knowledge, driving you to the edge of insanity. This gives you (or anyone you bestow such knowledge to) an uncanny insight into everything you do. Bam, there's your Guidance.

Prestidigitation or Minor Illusion are also solid choices. And yes, you can team up with the Arcane Trickster to do two illusions at once, or one image and one sound. That said, there's also an invocation for at-will Silent Image, so you might not want Minor Illusion if you go for that (however, Silent Image, as the name would suggest, can't create sound).

So the thorn whip is mainly about the invocation slot. Initially we didn't have anything to build from except PHB and SCAG, which limited my choices a tad. Then with regard to future progression, Book of Ancient Secrets is a must (we need identify, and rituals in general open up a lot of options) and I should pick up Agonizing Blast fairly soon to keep my damage scaling. I could swap out Eldritch Sight, but that has been pretty useful. So realistically, I wouldn't be picking up Grasp before level 9. Add to that that it would be competing with Devil's Sight and Whispers of the Grave which are both strong and fun options, as well as Thorn Whip being able to drag goblins screaming into the arms of a Paladin, Fighter or an angry Bear from level 3, it was hard to resist.


Both you and nckl_2000 have strong flavour for Guidance which I hadn't thought of- I like the idea of it being threatening! Buuuut I wasn't joking about our paladin. They are playing up being a servant of life and growing things very strongly, which is great and makes a fun dynamic, but they do have (in character) serious reservations about necrotic tentacles from beyond the weave. The rogue's background is having stolen something from a wizard so they're also understandably wary of wibbly stuff that's beyond their control, and the druid is an *incredibly* stuck up Wood Elf noble who's on the run from Something Bad They Did And Will Never Speak Of,and is still fuming about the time we suggested he turn into a donkey. The fighter is pretty phlegmatic by contrast, but by that point it was diminishing returns. It's a really fun group, especially from a narrative perspective, but a bit dysfunctional still while we sort out interpersonal party dynamics!

From what's been said, I'm leaning towards the prestidigitation, although if the rogue is happy to work as a double act Minor Illusion is back in the running. I think Friends is out. It's so situational that odds are if it is really needed, chances are I'll be able to spare a spell slot for Suggestion which has less fallout.

Crgaston
2018-06-14, 04:41 PM
Frostbite is a con save and gives the target disadvantage on their next attack in addition to the cold damage.

Create Bonfire is a concentration cantrip that you can use your thorn whip or Repelling Blast to move enemies into, and its a Dex save.

Greywander
2018-06-14, 05:46 PM
Frostbite is not only redundant with Vicious Mockery, it's also worse in almost every way except damage. CON vs. WIS save, cold vs. psychic damage, and gives disadvantage only on weapon attacks (I think? I'm AFB) vs. all attacks.

One thing about both Guidance and Create Bonfire is that they require concentration. As a warlock, you might be using your concentration to maintain a 24 hour Hex (once you're high enough level, at least).

Prestidigitation or Minor Illusion seem to be the best choices for you. You could drop one of your current cantrips to get both, in particular maybe Chill Touch. What was your reasoning behind Chill Touch, and have you actually used it? It's a good damage cantrip, but seems redundant with Eldritch Blast. It's rider is a game changer when it comes up, but it will be very rare that you need it. Do you really need both?

SpanielBear
2018-06-14, 05:56 PM
Frostbite is not only redundant with Vicious Mockery, it's also worse in almost every way except damage. CON vs. WIS save, cold vs. psychic damage, and gives disadvantage only on weapon attacks (I think? I'm AFB) vs. all attacks.

One thing about both Guidance and Create Bonfire is that they require concentration. As a warlock, you might be using your concentration to maintain a 24 hour Hex (once you're high enough level, at least).

Prestidigitation or Minor Illusion seem to be the best choices for you. You could drop one of your current cantrips to get both, in particular maybe Chill Touch. What was your reasoning behind Chill Touch, and have you actually used it? It's a good damage cantrip, but seems redundant with Eldritch Blast. It's rider is a game changer when it comes up, but it will be very rare that you need it. Do you really need both?

I came to the same conclusion about Frostbite too. Bonfire is an option, possibly, but again it's another damage cantrip. The synergy with push/pull is nice though.

Regarding chill touch, yeah the rider was why I picked it, and as it happens yes I have used it. There was a weird Gulthias tree/treant thing, not sure how homebrewed it was but stopping it from regrowing the branches we lopped off made it a better shout than eldritch blast at the time. Definitely situational, but given our druid is a bear more often than not, it's good if I have a regen stopper on stand-by.

Greywander
2018-06-14, 06:03 PM
And it looks like you don't have a wizard or sorcerer in the party who could take it instead. Although the Arcane Trickster could probably pick it up. But yeah, if someone has to have Chill Touch, I guess it makes the most sense for it to be you.

That being the case, have you thought about ditching Eldritch Blast? There are 5 different invocations that enhance it, which is great, but if you decide not to use it that means you can get other invocations instead. That said, Repelling Blast can be a blast (ba dum tsh).

SpanielBear
2018-06-14, 06:13 PM
And it looks like you don't have a wizard or sorcerer in the party who could take it instead. Although the Arcane Trickster could probably pick it up. But yeah, if someone has to have Chill Touch, I guess it makes the most sense for it to be you.

That being the case, have you thought about ditching Eldritch Blast? There are 5 different invocations that enhance it, which is great, but if you decide not to use it that means you can get other invocations instead. That said, Repelling Blast can be a blast (ba dum tsh).

I hadn't, but repelling blast is too fun to drop. Assassins on roof-tops, goblins in front of spiked barricades, people on bridges... Our DM has been generous in giving us space to shine with our toys from time to time. Admittedly, that doesn't help when I keep rolling low to hit, but it does feel good when it works!

Mercurias
2018-06-14, 07:12 PM
I would choose Minor Illusion and Prestidigitation. Even if your Arcane Trickster friend good with illusions, you having Minor Illusion and potentially the Misty Visions invocation put you at least on their level.

It doesn’t need to be a contest or about hogging limelight. You could easily help one another out.

If your Arcane Trickster friend drops a Silent Image of a wall to hide you and a guard is about to discover you? Minor Illusion a sound to distract them, then give your buddy a fistbump.

Your Trickster friend running low on funds? Use Prestidigation and Silent Image to draw the attention of a crowd while they use Mage Hand to pick every picket they can get to.

Tag team when making distractions. One of you use Minor Illusion for creating a pool of blood, and the illusion up yells and other sounds of distress.

Crgaston
2018-06-14, 08:13 PM
Frostbite is not only redundant with Vicious Mockery, it's also worse in almost every way except damage. CON vs. WIS save, cold vs. psychic damage, and gives disadvantage only on weapon attacks (I think? I'm AFB) vs. all attacks.

One thing about both Guidance and Create Bonfire is that they require concentration. As a warlock, you might be using your concentration to maintain a 24 hour Hex (once you're high enough level, at least).

Prestidigitation or Minor Illusion seem to be the best choices for you. You could drop one of your current cantrips to get both, in particular maybe Chill Touch. What was your reasoning behind Chill Touch, and have you actually used it? It's a good damage cantrip, but seems redundant with Eldritch Blast. It's rider is a game changer when it comes up, but it will be very rare that you need it. Do you really need both?

I agree about Vicious Mockery vs Frostbite, but the OP did mention wanting a Con save option to Wis saves earlier in the thread.

Regarding concentration, Create Bonfire and Hex, I have only played a Warlock to L9 and found myself not using Hex precisely because it precluded concentration on anything else, It can very easily eat up all your slots if you’re getting hit often, or want to cast any other concentration spell.

A cantrip that lets you use your concentration resource and synergizes with your ability to force movement is a great action economy booster on a Warlock IMO.

And with 3/4 of the OP’s spells known being concentration...

Edit: AND, it can be used to force movement itself. Drop it on someone engaged in melee with your Pally or BM and they have to chose between staying and making the Dex save or moving and potentially drawing the OA.

Joe the Rat
2018-06-14, 08:43 PM
Toll the Dead is fun, but you've already got the Wis Save covered.

My vote on Create Bonfire is as a light source and a way to start a fire. for which Prestidigitation is more versatile.
But it also pairs nicely with push/pull effects.

You could always enhance your moving toolkit with Infestation.



Second, Thorn Whip seems redundant (and underpowered) if you ever intend to get the Grasp of Hadar invocation. I'm AFB, but IIRC it's the same effect but from 120 feet away. But maybe you want to save an invocation slot, or maybe you just really like the flavor of the spell (it does fit thematically with a GOO lock). Even with grasp as an option, thorn whip is soooo on brand. And satisfying. And 60' long with spell sniper. And is less likely to kill your party members if you use it to drag them out of harm's way. It's also a melee spell attack - you don't suffer disadvantage from having an adjacent enemy.

I finally got a chance to use it on my tomelock, and immediately dropped a necromancer into a well. Good times.

Greywander
2018-06-14, 09:51 PM
And is less likely to kill your party members if you use it to drag them out of harm's way.
How do you figure? Thorn Whip damage scales up to 4d6, but Eldritch Blast can be split, dealing only 1d10 (or 1d10 + 5 with Agonizing Blast) in order to pull someone.

That said, if I were the DM I'd probably allow the player to "downcast" or "unscale" their cantrips if they want to.

Edit: Now that I'm back to my books, I had to check if Spell Sniper would even apply to Thorn Whip, since it's a melee attack. It does!
Of course, Eldritch Blast would have a range of 240 feet with Spell Sniper (600 if he gets Eldritch Spear too), allowing you to pull someone from so much further away (where they would least expect it).

Talionis
2018-06-15, 10:58 AM
Does your party need Spare the Dying? Stabalizing party members can be useful. You probably don't need more damage... I would look to things like Friends, Guidance, Spare the Dying, Prestidigitation, Mold Earth, Shape Water, etc.

SpanielBear
2018-06-15, 02:43 PM
Does your party need Spare the Dying? Stabalizing party members can be useful. You probably don't need more damage... I would look to things like Friends, Guidance, Spare the Dying, Prestidigitation, Mold Earth, Shape Water, etc.


We have a druid and a paladin, so healing duties are pretty well covered. I did think about it and it's a good shout, but debuffing and battlefield control is a niche my character seems to fit pretty well in this group. Hence Vicious Mockery and Thorn Whip. Mending is because of fluff more than anything, and also it's a utility spell that falls under "Nice to have, very occasionally outstanding."

Dr. Cliché
2018-06-16, 08:33 AM
Prestidigitation is a nice tool.

Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade are very useful if you end up needing a decent melee attack (though better with Mobility or Cunning Action).


If your Tome-Cantrips are still up for debate, then I'll throw Primal Savagery into the mix. Not an amazing spell in terms of damage (though acid is nice), but I absolutely adore the flavour of your hand turning into a claw for the attack.