Tortle armor

[username1]

So one of my players is playing a tortle(Found on DMs guild Tomb of Annihilation supplement). Because of their shells and and strange shaped limbs in the rules of the race it says tortles cannot wear armor of any kind. However his shell gives him base ac of 17 and he may use a shield putting it at 19. He is asking me if he could get special made armor that would fit him. Im wondering what you guys think about this. If he can i would charge him way more than he has at this point, but he still at some point would acquire the gold. His ac of 19 is the highest at the table which is another reason i am reluctant.

[Naanomi]

My default would be no; but I could imagine circumstances I would allow ‘tortle full plate’ to override their base AC

[GlenSmash!]

So one of my players is playing a tortle(Found on DMs guild Tomb of Annihilation supplement). Because of their shells and and strange shaped limbs in the rules of the race it says tortles cannot wear armor of any kind. However his shell gives him base ac of 17 and he may use a shield putting it at 19. He is asking me if he could get special made armor that would fit him. Im wondering what you guys think about this. If he can i would charge him way more than he has at this point, but he still at some point would acquire the gold. His ac of 19 is the highest at the table which is another reason i am reluctant.

If I went this route I would explain that in 5e wearing armor would not add to the possible 17-19 given by Tortle, but would be a new AC calculation that completely replaces Tortle armor just like every other armor calculation in the game.

[jaappleton]

Well, let's see here.

If he's looking to increase his AC, there's ways to do it besides making armor.

Bracers of Defense is Rare, would grant +2
Cloak of Protection is Uncommon, grants +1 to AC and +1 to all Saves

Now, aside from that? If you want armor?

Fine. Kill something and harvest its hide. Something tough enough that it's actually be an upgrade over the natural armor of a Tortle. An Umber Hulk, for example. And find a smith that can actually work with it to make it into armor for yourself, while not hindering your movement.

Also, high AC doesn't mean an invulnerable character. Force 'em to make saving throws.

[Seekergeek]

I mean, sure? It would have to be full plate before it is better than the shell he's currently enjoying and getting custom full plate made is going to be hugely prohibitive from a time prospective by the crafting rules. By RAW it takes one work week per 50gp of value of the item to craft (per the crafting rules in Xanathar's Guide). Off the rack full plate costs 1,500gp. That's 30 weeks. So it's going to take more than half a year to have it made - probably longer if you're also going to increase the cost. Getting a custom set of plate made that is also magical (presumably the entire reason he would want to bother with the investment) is going to get even more expensive, even more time consuming, and even more difficult. +1 armour is categorized as rare, +2 is very rare, and +3 is Legendary. Rare adds 10 weeks to the crafting time and 2,000gp to the cost, very rare adds 25 weeks to the crafting time and 20,000gp to the cost, and legendary adds 50 weeks to the crafting time and 100,000gp to the cost. Keep in mind those gp costs are the wholesale costs if the character is going to do it themselves. A "retailer" isn't going to do it to break even - they will likely charge more or send the PCs on a quest as a means of payment.

All that is to say that the RAW costs and time constraints probably make the marginal gain unattractive.

[Unoriginal]

If he wants to spend 1500 gp or more for have his AC one point higher, I suppose.

[MagneticKitty]

In the official supplement expanded racial feats for exotic races there's a tortle feat for 18 a.c.
Called tortle defense. Google it.

[username1]

I can't find that feat. Can you send me a link?

[GlenSmash!]

In the official supplement expanded racial feats for exotic races there's a tortle feat for 18 a.c.
Called tortle defense. Google it.

The expanded racial feats were released by D&D Beyond not WotC. As such they are 3rd party not official.

It's easy to forget that since D&D Beyond also sells official content.

Edit: Not that I am against them. If they work for you table that is great.

[nickl_2000]

I can't find that feat. Can you send me a link?

It's actually called Tortle Protector, but it's still not technically WotC

[thoroughlyS]

Because of their shells and and strange shaped limbs in the rules of the race it says tortles cannot wear armor of any kind. Technically, the Natural Armor trait just says they are "ill-suited" to wearing armor and receive no benefit from wearing any. That doesn't meant they can't wear armor, which is an important distinction if your player just wants to wear armor for the aesthetic. If they want to slap on some Scale Mail because they think they'll look cool, they shouldn't need a new set to be custom made, they just treat it more like clothing than armor. Do note, they would still suffer the following penalties, if applicable:

nonproficiency penalties (disadvantage on any ability check, saving throw, or attack roll that involves Strength or Dexterity, and you can't cast spells)
disadvantage on Stealth checks
speed reduction (if you do not meet Strength requirements)

[Bloodcloud]

Allowing him to pay 1 500 gp to raise his AC to 18-20 would be entirely balanced. Basically custom armor parts to cover the limbs I guess. Price is for RnD and unique piece.

[Willie the Duck]

So one of my players is playing a tortle

Can I ask a maybe stupid question? Not having to either 1) wear armor, or 2) use one of the other common ways of getting a high AC, such as monk or barbarian pretty much is the tortle's 'thing' or 'schtick.' Why did they want to play a tortle, if not for this reason? I mean, yes yes, there are plenty of roleplay reasons to want to play a turtle-creature, but then being limited to AC 19 doesn't sound like a real problem. What is their reasoning.

Beyond that, from a pure mechanics and 'pay for what you get' perspective-tortle 'get' a really nice starting armor class, and 'pay' for it by never being able to rise above it (through normal means, as has been mentioned, Monk, Barbarian, spellcaster, Bracers of Defense and Cloak of Protection are all options here). Trying to get the later-level highest-AC while having gotten the lower level quickly high AC sounds a little like wanting cake and eating it to.

That said, I really dislike as a DM to say 'don't bother going down this avenue, I will not support it.' I much prefer saying something like 'if you want to dedicate your character to this goal, and they spend time, energy, gold, adventure hooks, etc. on what I've already indicated is going to be marginal gains, but you want to go ahead for RP reasons' and then give them something like an 18 AC armor after much adventuring (roughly commensurate with the effort I would make someone go through if purpose-seeking out specifically a Cloak of Protection in my 'no you can't buy magic items, you have to make, find, or seek one out' campaign.

OTOH...


His ac of 19 is the highest at the table which is another reason i am reluctant.

Yes, continue to be. I get it if he had the lowers AC and was being chewed up every battle. At highest? No. Your AC is great. If you're still getting hit to much, improve your tactics.

[Lombra]

Can I ask a maybe stupid question? Not having to either 1) wear armor, or 2) use one of the other common ways of getting a high AC, such as monk or barbarian pretty much is the tortle's 'thing' or 'schtick.' Why did they want to play a tortle, if not for this reason? I mean, yes yes, there are plenty of roleplay reasons to want to play a turtle-creature, but then being limited to AC 19 doesn't sound like a real problem. What is their reasoning.

Beyond that, from a pure mechanics and 'pay for what you get' perspective-tortle 'get' a really nice starting armor class, and 'pay' for it by never being able to rise above it (through normal means, as has been mentioned, Monk, Barbarian, spellcaster, Bracers of Defense and Cloak of Protection are all options here). Trying to get the later-level highest-AC while having gotten the lower level quickly high AC sounds a little like wanting cake and eating it to.

That said, I really dislike as a DM to say 'don't bother going down this avenue, I will not support it.' I much prefer saying something like 'if you want to dedicate your character to this goal, and they spend time, energy, gold, adventure hooks, etc. on what I've already indicated is going to be marginal gains, but you want to go ahead for RP reasons' and then give them something like an 18 AC armor after much adventuring (roughly commensurate with the effort I would make someone go through if purpose-seeking out specifically a Cloak of Protection in my 'no you can't buy magic items, you have to make, find, or seek one out' campaign.

OTOH...



Yes, continue to be. I get it if he had the lowers AC and was being chewed up every battle. At highest? No. Your AC is great. If you're still getting hit to much, improve your tactics.

People play characters beyond mechanics sometimes. One may just want to play a turtle-person, without thinking about shticks

[Temperjoke]

I wonder if it would be possible to have metal plates riveted to his shell to supplement the armor? It would add to his weight, and would definitely slow him down, but that could be used to justify adding a couple of points to his AC.

[bobofwestgate]

I would say that they would lose the benefits of being able to withdraw into their shell if they were wearing armor. They would lost a lot of mobility and there's limited space inside the shell.

[Willie the Duck]

People play characters beyond mechanics sometimes. One may just want to play a turtle-person, without thinking about shticks

I very specifically mentioned roleplay reasons because I knew someone would bring it up.

[Elminster298]

My personal opinion would be to allow the full plate armor value to override the natural armor if it was "grafted" to the shell and arm/leg scales. This would make the armor so it can't be removed except under extreme circumstances and with damage taken. Lots of things can be refluffed with very mi or changes to RAW.

[Davrix]

I would suggest having custom armor made that allows for resistance to one type of non magical damage, such a s slashing or bludgeoning damage while they wear the armor.

[JungleChicken]

The before mentioned defensive magic items work if just AC numbers are what is being sought.

I wouldn't have a problem with a very expensive custom work around (or possibly found exotic item) Maybe not traditional armor but something akin to a set of metal plates loosely connected by chain links in a shell pattern so it's worn more like an animals armored barding that gives a +1 or +2

Not so much a set of armor but more a metal quilt. heh

[holywhippet]

Bracers of Defense is Rare, would grant +2
Cloak of Protection is Uncommon, grants +1 to AC and +1 to all Saves


Having a ring of spell storing helps. Just load it with shield of faith and 3 shield spells (assuming the character isn't already a caster). Or haste and 2 shield spells. Or just 5 shield spells.

[Matrix_Walker]

Am I a bad person for reading the title of this thread and thinking of armor made from tortle shell?

[leogobsin]

The only armor that would be of any benefit for a Tortle would be Plate. In the PHB, barding for mounts costs 4x the price of standard armor, it seems pretty reasonable to apply that to Tortle armor too. That would be 6,000 gold for Plate armor, which feels like a sufficiently large amount to me.

[Nod_Hero]

Am I a bad person for reading the title of this thread and thinking of armor made from tortle shell?

If you are then we're in the same clubhouse...

[holywhippet]

Am I a bad person for reading the title of this thread and thinking of armor made from tortle shell?

Act of infamy, or the ultimate disguise attempt?

[nickl_2000]

Act of infamy, or the ultimate disguise attempt?

Why not both?

[Matrix_Walker]

Act of infamy, or the ultimate disguise attempt?

Infamy possibly, or perhaps necessity... But I hadn't delved into the story aspect, it was more of a quick mental image.

[furby076]

sure, why not? It makes sense too. Even if he gets leather armor stacked onto his shell, that improves his defense. maybe the type of armor he gets does damage reduction? Leather = reduce bludgeon by 1-3 points. Scale reduces slash damage by 1-3 points. Plate reduces piercing by 1-3 points. Kind of different than just increasing ac and lets the player customize. i would tell the player it may be a bit costly...not just for the material, but to have it fitted so he could wear it appropriately. Maybe 500-1000...again, mainly for the labor, not the material. I also wouldn't sweat the player for penalties like weight, speed, etc. It just becomes pedantic. If its stealth based character or character without proficiency i would let them know that might have some impact if they go with plate or scale.

As for increasing AC, as oters have mentioned, there are plenty of other ways (magic items, increasing dex, feats).

[furby076]

The only armor that would be of any benefit for a Tortle would be Plate. In the PHB, barding for mounts costs 4x the price of standard armor, it seems pretty reasonable to apply that to Tortle armor too. That would be 6,000 gold for Plate armor, which feels like a sufficiently large amount to me.

thats extreme. so this player has to pay 6000 gold to get the same thing someone else pays 1500 for? That's overkill imo. I think providing damage reduction to specific type would be suitable

[qube]

thinking about it - there's actually an interesting problem: an inability to wear armor gives you one less item slot. Not AC, but magic seems an "issue".
(a fighter could wear an adamanitine armor, Tortles can't)