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Conners
2007-09-08, 05:07 AM
Does anyone have any good startegies for Drow PCs? I'm not quite sure how darkness is best used.

Dhavaer
2007-09-08, 05:11 AM
Darkness is basically a buff spell. You cast it on your belt, or something, and shoot or cast spells at people while making sure they don't get within the radius.

MrNexx
2007-09-08, 05:13 AM
My favorite place to cast "Darkness" (and "Light") are on a crossbow bolt or sling stone, which is then sent towards my enemies at high velocity.

Dhavaer
2007-09-08, 05:15 AM
But then they'd be in the darkness, and you'd have a 20% miss chance when attacking them. 3.5 darkness is something you want for yourself, not put your enemies in.

Threeshades
2007-09-08, 05:45 AM
But then they'd be in the darkness, and you'd have a 20% miss chance when attacking them. 3.5 darkness is something you want for yourself, not put your enemies in.

Cant you see inside it with the Drow's darkvision?


We once used (in 3.0) darkness cast on an arrow and shot it into a guard tower to disable the archers up there and giving us time to take care of the guards on the ground and the other tower first.

But if you can see through it when you have it on yourself in 3.5 then yes, i would cast it on myself.

MrNexx
2007-09-08, 05:54 AM
But then they'd be in the darkness, and you'd have a 20% miss chance when attacking them. 3.5 darkness is something you want for yourself, not put your enemies in.

Yes, but they can't see you at all, so you can reposition for an attack, or strategically withdraw. PLus, when you have numbers on your side, you DO want complete darkness on them. They still can't see (it's not like it's a one-way darkness), and your allies can pick them off as they come out of the sphere, or just fill the sphere with tons of arrows.

Zincorium
2007-09-08, 06:02 AM
Cant you see inside it with the Drow's darkvision?

Specifically no.

But I checked it for what Dhavaer was saying, and technically by RAW, there is no miss chance for using spells or weapons from inside the darkness on things that are outside it. Considering it doesn't actually obscure vision (like fog or such would), only lowers the level of light in it's radius, that kinda makes sense.

Picture yourself at night. All around you are people with flashlights pointed at themselves. They can't see you clearly because you're in darkness. However, you can see them very, very easily. Now, just change the areas of light and darkness so that the only place where light doesn't shine is directly around you.

Kind of odd, but it works.


Yes, but they can't see you at all, so you can reposition for an attack, or strategically withdraw. PLus, when you have numbers on your side, you DO want complete darkness on them. They still can't see (it's not like it's a one-way darkness), and your allies can pick them off as they come out of the sphere, or just fill the sphere with tons of arrows.

Actually, yeah, they can see you (as described above). It didn't work that way previously, so your example would have been perfectly valid if they hadn't updated darkness without telling anyone, and of course you can houserule that is does not, in fact, work as I described, and the fact that it doesn't mention any penalty to attacks from inside to things outside was simply an oversight. I don't think there'd be much argument.

What would work is Fog Cloud, which prevents all vision beyond 5 ft. That'll shut down archers really quickly.

Kurald Galain
2007-09-08, 06:25 AM
Considering it doesn't actually obscure vision (like fog or such would), only lowers the level of light in it's radius, that kinda makes sense.

That's because the 3.5 version of this spell is rather stupid, in that it doesn't actually cause darkness. Of course, if it did, it would be mostly redundant to the various kinds of fog spell, but nevertheless it should be called Dimness instead.

Threeshades
2007-09-08, 06:27 AM
Specifically no.

But I checked it for what Dhavaer was saying, and technically by RAW, there is no miss chance for using spells or weapons from inside the darkness on things that are outside it. Considering it doesn't actually obscure vision (like fog or such would), only lowers the level of light in it's radius, that kinda makes sense.

Picture yourself at night. All around you are people with flashlights pointed at themselves. They can't see you clearly because you're in darkness. However, you can see them very, very easily. Now, just change the areas of light and darkness so that the only place where light doesn't shine is directly around you.

That kind of makes sense. So you cant actually see yourself and whats in the darkness, but you can see whats outside it.

But wouldnt that mean, that someone outside the darkness should be able to see anyone and anything on the opposite side of the darknessed area?

Amiria
2007-09-08, 06:31 AM
The best drow class feature is the 120 ft. darkvision. They have the +2 LA beacuse of their Spell Resistance (which is an overrated ability and often just in the way of beneficial spells).

But take advantage from that darkvisoin. Combine it with a maximized Spot skill. Drow rangers (even when they dual-wield scimitars), rogues and scouts are excellent for this. At night or underground you'll spot your enemies first, retreat, make a short battle plan with your allies, ambush the ememies => spells and ranged weapons from outside their darkvision ... if they have any.

Maybe take that Scout alternative class feature (climb speed) from PHB2 if you play in the Underdark.

Dhavaer
2007-09-08, 06:32 AM
But wouldnt that mean, that someone outside the darkness should be able to see anyone and anything on the opposite side of the darknessed area?

The spell description doesn't say anything about providing concealment when its between two creatures, so yes, you can see something on the other side of a darkness spell from yourself.

Mithhuan
2007-09-08, 07:40 AM
Darkness provides concealment to anything within the spells radius. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkness.htm So you would have the 20% chance to miss attacks. But creatures without dark vision will become blinded in darkness. Which gives total concealment, and penalities to dex and movement http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#darkness

Zincorium
2007-09-08, 07:47 AM
Darkness provides concealment to anything within the spells radius. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkness.htm So you would have the 20% chance to miss attacks. But creatures without dark vision will become blinded in darkness. Which gives total concealment, and penalities to dex and movement http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#darkness

...Which is the same as the difference between light, as from the sun, and Light, the spell. Same name, not the same thing in game terms, and clearly so from their differing mechanical effects.

Darkness provides shadowy illumination, it more or less causes shadows to appear in a specific area. Which also affect creatures with darkvision.

The condition of darkness is the normal lack of light. I'm not aware of any spell which causes this.

UserClone
2007-09-08, 07:49 AM
They have the +2 LA beacuse of their Spell Resistance (which is an overrated ability and often just in the way of beneficial spells).

I am confused by this...are you unaware that a creature can lower and raise its spell resistance at will? As far as I know, the single exception to this is the Forsaker PrC in which the class restrictions force you to try to fight any and all, even beneficial, magic which is used upon you.

Dhavaer
2007-09-08, 07:56 AM
I am confused by this...are you unaware that a creature can lower and raise its spell resistance at will? As far as I know, the single exception to this is the Forsaker PrC in which the class restrictions force you to try to fight any and all, even beneficial, magic which is used upon you.

Lowering SR requires a standard action; making getting buffed in combat a dicey proposition.

UserClone
2007-09-08, 08:03 AM
Oh yeah, I forgot about that tidbit...oh well. Does it require an action to re-raise it, or is that automatic, like you just lower it for the purpose of one spell only?

MrNexx
2007-09-08, 12:32 PM
Ah, yes, I forgot that 3.5 stupified Darkness.

Sornjss Lichdom
2007-09-08, 04:48 PM
use faerie fire for if your in a crowded city when finding a mark for an assassination. or when some one has partial cover basicly destroying it. Dancing light and ghost sound (not one of your Su's but there should be wizard near you) put together can make a tunnel down the way seem full of your reinforcements.

also spend a feat on Highborn Drow, pre 13 wis, and you can use levitate, detect good, and detect magic, as a Su once a day. Take another feat Improved Levitation and you can use levitation for up to ten minutes a day split up how ever you want.

to set a trap in the under dark, levitate up to the top of the ceiling, one that you can fall from and not take any real damage, fill it with darkness, wait for the person to walk below you and drop on them or shot them with posioned hand bows, etc...

thats all I got for now.