Which way would you go? Warrior / Wisdom based Caster (NOT Paladin)

[jaappleton]

So I have this idea for a Warrior / Divine Caster. Not a Paladin, that part is important.

Starting at lv10.

So, something with extra attack. I'm thinking Fighter (Battlemaster or Samurai), or maybe Ranger (Though I think Fighter adds more), and either Cleric (Light) or Druid (Most likely Land).

Essentially, something with Extra Attack, and Wisdom based spellcasting from either Druid or Cleric. This character will wield a Heavy 2h Weapon, and have GWM, so getting access to Faerie Fire or similar effects is pretty important. Its for that reason that I'll likely be going with Samurai or Battlemaster.

The point is to be able to have a good amount of abilities that replenish on a Short Rest, and on a Long Rest, while adding in spellcasting to deal with threats I couldn't typically handle with just a weapon.

Druid gets me Guardian at Nature in two more levels, which is huge. Also gets me Absorb Elements, and possibly Haste depending on what Land I choose.

Cleric, especially Light, gets me Warding Flare, Channel Divinity, Revivify, and Light nets me Fireball.

Honestly, I have a difficult time seeing the advantage of going Ranger over Fighter, regardless of the Ranger archetype.

[sithlordnergal]

I have a similar build actually with a Fighter 6/Druid x. I use a shillelagh quarterstaff, and I plan to snag Polearm Master to gain a nice 1d4 bonus attack every turn. It's actually pretty fun, as I can focus purely on Wisdom since I use it for spellcasting and attacks.

Though I am torn between being a Land Druid for Haste, or a Shepard Druid for stronger Conjure Animals and party buffs. I think I will go Land Druid for Haste

That said, you want to go Fighter over Ranger. Fighter gives you instant access to a Fighting Style, Action Surge, an extra ASI/Feat, and access to Battle Master. And trust me, Battle Master is a very strong archtype.

[hymer]

Honestly, I have a difficult time seeing the advantage of going Ranger over Fighter, regardless of the Ranger archetype.
Hordebreaker and Whirlwinf Attack with a big, two-handed weapon sounds pretty enticing. :smallsmile:
That's not to say fighter isn't better (I wouldn't know one way or the other), just that there are some bright spots for ranger.

[Sorlock Master]

Go cleric. Druids can't wear Metal armor.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Honestly, I have a difficult time seeing the advantage of going Ranger over Fighter, regardless of the Ranger archetype.
Fighter gives you Action Surge and, say, Battle Master maneuvers; Ranger gives you another two levels of worth spell slots, four spells known off a good list (Hunter's Mark, Absorb Elements, Zephyr Strike, Healing Spirit...) and some excellent all-day subclass abilities-- Hordebreaker, say, or Planar Warrior. I'd probably go with Ranger for the slots alone.

[jaappleton]

Fighter gives you Action Surge and, say, Battle Master maneuvers; Ranger gives you another two levels of worth spell slots, four spells known off a good list (Hunter's Mark, Absorb Elements, Zephyr Strike, Healing Spirit...) and some excellent all-day subclass abilities-- Hordebreaker, say, or Planar Warrior. I'd probably go with Ranger for the slots alone.

Grod the Giant is strong... but also wise. The spell slot aspect of MCing is something I hadn't considered.

Though it also means I have less keying off a short rest. Fighter, with action surge, allows me to Faerie Fire and wreck with my weapon in the same turn. Which is VERY tempting. But having more slots is nothing to sneeze at, too.

EDIT: Fighter also nets me Con save proficiency.

[sithlordnergal]

Go cleric. Druids can't wear Metal armor.

Actually, incorrect. It says Druids tend to dislike wearing metal armor, but there are no mechanical issues. Unlike in 3.5, you don't lose spells or class abilities while wearing metal armor.

Heck, my Fighter/Druid uses metal armor, and I play in AL so the DM can't do house rules. So by RAW there is nothing preventing a Druid from wearing metal armor other then "it is considered taboo".

EDIT: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-march-2016

That link even explains that there are no mechanical downsides to a druid wearing metal unless the dm or the player makes something.

[jaappleton]

Actually, incorrect. It says Druids tend to dislike wearing metal armor, but there are no mechanical issues. Unlike in 3.5, you don't lose spells or class abilities while wearing metal armor.

Heck, my Fighter/Druid uses metal armor, and I play in AL so the DM can't do house rules. So by RAW there is nothing preventing a Druid from wearing metal armor other then "it is considered taboo".

EDIT: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-march-2016

That link even explains that there are no mechanical downsides to a druid wearing metal unless the dm or the player makes something.

We're deviating off the topic, but I flavor any Druid 'metal' armor as being made of bone or similar material. They're Druids, they'd certainly have knowledge of how to make the most of creature hides and the like. Of course, something like Plate requires something a bit... heartier than your average creature, and perhaps the cooperation of a good smith or someone similar.

And since I'd be starting at lv10, that's more than in the cards.

[GorogIrongut]

Though it also means I have less keying off a short rest. Fighter, with action surge, allows me to Faerie Fire and wreck with my weapon in the same turn. Which is VERY tempting. But having more slots is nothing to sneeze at, too.

EDIT: Fighter also nets me Con save proficiency.

Xanathar's gave Rangers access to a spell called Zephyr Strike as a bonus action. That spell, while different accomplishes a lot of those things without being a once per rest limitation. Combine Zephyr Strike with Gloom Stalker and your character will hit pretty hard.

If you take ranger to level 7 you get Str/Dex/Wis save proficiency. Combine that with Resilient Con and you've got the Big 3 covered.

[Specter]

Ranger/War Cleric.

War Cleric nets you Divine Favor, which gives you good damage, and doesn't need to be transferred like Hunter's Mark. Plus some bonus actions attacks for emergency.

Plus, you get to upscale slots like crazy: Ranger 8/Cleric 12, you still get 8th-level slots.

[Matrix_Walker]

Actually, incorrect. It says Druids tend to dislike wearing metal armor, but there are no mechanical issues. Unlike in 3.5, you don't lose spells or class abilities while wearing metal armor.

Heck, my Fighter/Druid uses metal armor, and I play in AL so the DM can't do house rules. So by RAW there is nothing preventing a Druid from wearing metal armor other then "it is considered taboo".

EDIT: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-march-2016

That link even explains that there are no mechanical downsides to a druid wearing metal unless the dm or the player makes something.

No no no.

The book is explicit. A Druid WILL NOT wear metal armor. That is the RAW.

The link explains that it was largely a flavor decision and that a GM may house rule differently if he they like.

[alchahest]

I would think that a druid who multiclasses is not being fully committed being a druid anyways and since there's no penalty or distinction for it, would be able to wear metal armor.

Also it's a silly distinction, metal is no more or less natural than leather or cloth. all are processed forms of raw materials. Is it more, or less natural to pound a heated rock to make armor than it is to skin an animal and treat it's skin with chemicals to make armor? It is especially weird when you consider they make use of metal for harvesting plants for their spells and rituals (a sickle for the mistletoe for example)

[nickl_2000]

Wisdom based Warrior.

Variant Human Fighter (or Ranger). Level 1 feat MI: Druid to get Shillelagh and Magic Stone and Either Healing Word or Goodberry for your level 1 spell. Max wisdom, Dex to 14 for Medium armor and run with it. Take Polearm Master and cheese it one handed with a Shield.

[RickAsWritten]

I'll throw Cavalier 5/Grave Cleric 5 into the ring. Use Bless to nullify that pesky -5, and also, pair that juicy Channel Divinity vulnerability with Action Surge for a holy smite that will leave Paladin's shaking in their sanctimonious boots.

[Vogie]

Infection Fighter - Gloom Stalker Ranger 7 / Circle of Spores Druid 3
Get in the thick of things with both extra damage and a pair of actions starting up. You gain the ability to throw poison as a reaction, and you gain shillelagh, Chill Touch and Ray of Enfeeblement to help control the field and augment your damage. Wisdom is not only your spellcasting ability, it also increases your initiative and proficiency in Wisdom saving throws via Iron Mind

Firebender- Radiant Sun Soul Monk 7 / Light cleric 3
Stay at range and launch a flurry of 1d6 radiant flares upon your enemies, all of which have advantage thanks to Faerie Fire. You can either cast Burning hands as a spell (via domain), or use ki points to cast it as a bonus action for AOE damage. As long as you use the Radiant Sun Bolts, you can even wear armor (use of martial arts in melee range will deactivate if you do so, though)

[cerin616]

Infection Fighter - Gloom Stalker Ranger 7 / Circle of Spores Druid 3
Get in the thick of things with both extra damage and a pair of actions starting up. You gain the ability to throw poison as a reaction, and you gain shillelagh, Chill Touch and Ray of Enfeeblement to help control the field and augment your damage. Wisdom is not only your spellcasting ability, it also increases your initiative and proficiency in Wisdom saving throws via Iron Mind

Firebender- Radiant Sun Soul Monk 7 / Light cleric 3
Stay at range and launch a flurry of 1d6 radiant flares upon your enemies, all of which have advantage thanks to Faerie Fire. You can either cast Burning hands as a spell (via domain), or use ki points to cast it as a bonus action for AOE damage. As long as you use the Radiant Sun Bolts, you can even wear armor (use of martial arts in melee range will deactivate if you do so, though)

I was going to suggest monk druid. You meditate with nature and learned to join with it flavor. Druid gives a pile of utility, monk lets you punch stuff. Arguably some fo the armor and attack stuff stack with wildshape.



No no no.

The book is explicit. A Druid WILL NOT wear metal armor. That is the RAW.

The link explains that it was largely a flavor decision and that a GM may house rule differently if he they like.

Here is an SRD reference for you. Druids dont wear metal.

Armor: Light armor, medium armor, shields (druids will not wear armor or use shields made of metal)

[KorvinStarmast]

So I have this idea for a Warrior / Divine Caster. Not a Paladin, that part is important.

Starting at lv10.

Essentially, something with Extra Attack, and Wisdom based spellcasting from either Druid or Cleric. This character will wield a Heavy 2h Weapon, and have GWM, so getting access to Faerie Fire or similar effects is pretty important.
We have a barb, GWM, 2-H weapons who MC'd into wild shaped druid in our group. He is effective.
I suppose that a land druid who is more spell focused would also be decent.

[Maxilian]

Grod the Giant is strong... but also wise. The spell slot aspect of MCing is something I hadn't considered.

Though it also means I have less keying off a short rest. Fighter, with action surge, allows me to Faerie Fire and wreck with my weapon in the same turn. Which is VERY tempting. But having more slots is nothing to sneeze at, too.

EDIT: Fighter also nets me Con save proficiency.

Then why not just go with EK Fighter? It gives you spell slot + all the short rest goodies, it even let you get Advantage for that -5 to hit but +10 damage thing from GWM with a familiar without much sacrifice -while giving you the extras for scouting and such things-, and if you go with lvl 7 you get some extra flavor (and more damage), letting you use spells such as BB/GFB or Thorn Whip. (The familiar would only work with one of your attack though)

[Maxilian]

We have a barb, GWM, 2-H weapons who MC'd into wild shaped druid in our group. He is effective.
I suppose that a land druid who is more spell focused would also be decent.

What's the point of GWM + Wildshape, not like you can use them together (unless you WS into a Ape or something that can use a weapon)

[Vogie]

What's the point of GWM + Wildshape, not like you can use them together (unless you WS into a Ape or something that can use a weapon)

Raging GWM Ape certainly sounds fun

[nickl_2000]

Raging GWM Ape certainly sounds fun

Especially is you cast Enlarge on it. That just feels right in many, many ways.

[Willie the Duck]

Wisdom based Warrior.

Variant Human Fighter (or Ranger). Level 1 feat MI: Druid to get Shillelagh and Magic Stone and Either Healing Word or Goodberry for your level 1 spell. Max wisdom, Dex to 14 for Medium armor and run with it. Take Polearm Master and cheese it one handed with a Shield.


I'm rather partial to a Strength based GWM-style fighter also maxing wisdom and taking Magic Initiate (Guidance, Sacred Flame/Toll the Dead, and Healing Word/Bless) as their ranged option instead of throwing javelins.

[KorvinStarmast]

What's the point of GWM + Wildshape, not like you can use them together (unless you WS into a Ape or something that can use a weapon) He uses the GWM in human shape, switches to wild shape for various reasons in combat (sometimes just to soak up damage). The spells he uses at the moment are as often CC as not, if he adds another level and gets to 5 that third level spell thing will be interesting. I'll ask him if he wants to try Ape Shape next time we play. (He's been plagued by RL lately, can't seem to make it to the games ... )

[Citan]

So I have this idea for a Warrior / Divine Caster. Not a Paladin, that part is important.

Starting at lv10.

So, something with extra attack. I'm thinking Fighter (Battlemaster or Samurai), or maybe Ranger (Though I think Fighter adds more), and either Cleric (Light) or Druid (Most likely Land).

Essentially, something with Extra Attack, and Wisdom based spellcasting from either Druid or Cleric. This character will wield a Heavy 2h Weapon, and have GWM, so getting access to Faerie Fire or similar effects is pretty important. Its for that reason that I'll likely be going with Samurai or Battlemaster.

The point is to be able to have a good amount of abilities that replenish on a Short Rest, and on a Long Rest, while adding in spellcasting to deal with threats I couldn't typically handle with just a weapon.

Druid gets me Guardian at Nature in two more levels, which is huge. Also gets me Absorb Elements, and possibly Haste depending on what Land I choose.

Cleric, especially Light, gets me Warding Flare, Channel Divinity, Revivify, and Light nets me Fireball.

Honestly, I have a difficult time seeing the advantage of going Ranger over Fighter, regardless of the Ranger archetype.
For your character concept I'd see two combos going well...

Tempest Cleric 4-5 + Eldricht Knight 5-6: Booming Blade synergy, Spirit Guardians otherwise (5/5), could be a very fearsome heavy armor and GWM character. Possibly going for 4/6 instead for extra ASI feat so you pick GWM and boost STR or combo it with Sentinel.
Normal fights: hack away with a Bless.
Tough fights (protector): pop up Spirit Guardians and go in the front line, relying on Shield / Second Wind to keep up as much as possible.
Tough fights (slayer): unleash a Maximized Booming Blade paired with an Extra Attack (Action Surge).

Grassland Druid 5 + Gloomstalker Ranger 5:
Wild Shape + Pass Without Trace to scout away or set a deadly ambush (with bonus Initiative and Extra Attack on nex, use Rope Trick to get short rests for you and party, and be otherwise the master of adventuring with all the Druid prepared spells (Goodberry, Conjure Animals, Speak With Animals, Longstrider, etc), picking otherwise Ranger exclusives or just must-have spells (Hunter's Mark, Absorb Elements, Ensnaring Strike).
When you really need to push shove, you can use either Haste, or Plant Growth, or BOTH (so that even if you are also affected by it -until you get next level of Druid at least-, it's not such a big deal).
Of course, if you don't like the Ranger spells much or don't care about Rope Trick, you could also downgrade it to Gloomstalker 3 (for the "first round" and Initiative goodies).

I'd go with the latter myself, simply because it's so much more awesome in terms of versatility... But if your first focus is hitting hard, you can't go wrong with the former which has, among other merits, to strain your concentration slot much less than the Druid/Ranger combo.
Or you could mix and match as you see fit the two above suggestions, for example Grassland Druid 5 / Gloomstalker Ranger 3 / Fighter 2 (big nova on first round OR Haste yourself on first turn and still get full action).

Cannot really go wrong whatever way you go. ^^

[Finieous]

EK 5/War Cleric 5 (dump Int, focus on defensive wizard spells, e.g., shield and absorb elements, plus find familiar). I'm not a huge fan of war cleric on its own, but it combos great with EK. You're relying on Extra Attack at this level, you get bonus action attacks for your GWM, and you get Channel Divinity to land extra power attacks. You've got spiritual weapon and spirit guardians to load on more damage, although you can never go wrong with bless and GWM. Best of all, the future is bright. You get another ASI at EK 6, War Magic at EK 7, ASI at EK 8, Eldritch Strike at EK 10, Extra Attack at EK 11. You get a second Channel Divinity at C 6, 4th level spells at C 7, ASI and Divine Strike at C 8, 5th-level spells at C9. When Eldritch Strike comes online at EK 10, you've got some nasty save-or-suck cleric spells to use with it.

EK11/C9 still gives you five ASIs, so you should be able to max Str and Wis and still take GWM, even as a nonhuman.

[Ivor_The_Mad]

I think that a samurai/cleric would be cool. I love the new samurai class (for fluff reasons). I agree with Finieous I think that EK would be really effective.

[jaappleton]

Seems War is getting a lot of love for the Domain pick.

Tempest is also getting some love. Originally I liked Light for access to Fireball, but maximized Shatter is also appealing since its only a 2nd level slot to do the pretty much the same average damage as Fireball with a 3rd level slot.

Any thoughts on the Order Domain? Making people fall prone with their channel divinity could be a good way to get Advantage on attacks every short rest.

I'll be brutally honest; I'm not a SCAG cantrip person. I'd much rather do multiple attacks instead of one big, hit or miss, that's it. This is somewhat mitigated with EK 7, however, because of the bonus action attack.

Do you find its better to go with Bless, to get a bonus to hit, or something like Faerie Fire for Advantage?

[Talionis]

I like Hordebreaker (even more attacks/turn) on Ranger, getting Ranger 5 gets you Extra Attacks and gets you casting slots and it gets you spells known. I feel like you'll want to get to Fighter 6 for the extra ASI. But only doing 5 Ranger allows you to go into either Cleric or Druid for the rest of your career, and move up that full caster spells as fast as possible. You'll also get a 9th level slot and 8th level spells at level 20 with the 5 Ranger/15 Cleric.

If you really want Battlemaster for theme it is fun. I am less keen on Battlemaster because I feel like I burn through my dice and then am unable to do anything interesting. In other words, I never feel like I have enough resources to use/ short rest. I feel like it is much worse than Ki on a Monk. So even though I like the idea of Battlemaster, I don't like the execution. It can be much more fun if you short rest a lot.

[Finieous]

Any thoughts on the Order Domain? Making people fall prone with their channel divinity could be a good way to get Advantage on attacks every short rest.


It's an action. It lasts until the end of your next turn, but it's still an action. Nothing is as good as additional attacks for a GWM/SS build, and this is kind of the negative flipside of that. Something like Guided Strike is a freebie. In a big fight, you cast bless, you use Order's Demand, and finally on Round 3 you can start swinging at stuff. That's a long time to wait. :smallbiggrin:



I'll be brutally honest; I'm not a SCAG cantrip person. I'd much rather do multiple attacks instead of one big, hit or miss, that's it. This is somewhat mitigated with EK 7, however, because of the bonus action attack.


No reason to use it before EK 7. You won't want to use it when you think you can drop an opponent and trigger a bonus action attack with GWM, so that will require some tactical decision-making. And you won't want to use it when you use War Priest (if War Domain). Otherwise, no particular reason not to use it from EK7 to EK11.



Do you find its better to go with Bless, to get a bonus to hit, or something like Faerie Fire for Advantage?

Advantage is always great, but the nice thing about the relatively scarce standard bonuses is that they stack with each other and with Advantage from other sources. Otherwise, it comes down to AC; bless is better when you need a big number on the d20 to hit.

[jaappleton]

It's an action. It lasts until the end of your next turn, but it's still an action. Nothing is as good as additional attacks for a GWM/SS build, and this is kind of the negative flipside of that. Something like Guided Strike is a freebie. In a big fight, you cast bless, you use Order's Demand, and finally on Round 3 you can start swinging at stuff. That's a long time to wait. :smallbiggrin:



No reason to use it before EK 7. You won't want to use it when you think you can drop an opponent and trigger a bonus action attack with GWM, so that will require some tactical decision-making. And you won't want to use it when you use War Priest (if War Domain). Otherwise, no particular reason not to use it from EK7 to EK11.



Advantage is always great, but the nice thing about the relatively scarce standard bonuses is that they stack with each other and with Advantage from other sources. Otherwise, it comes down to AC; bless is better when you need a big number on the d20 to hit.

Very solid points all around.

Especially the one regarding Advantage. The Paladin in the party is Sword n Board with Shield Master, so knocking people down happens fairly often. Being on mop-up duty is a great way to trigger the bonus attack of GWM.