Celestial Warlock End Game

[Hobb]

Hi!

I'm new to these parts, so apologies if this is in the wrong place.

Started a new campaign recently, and have got a Celestial Warlock as the only and main healer, rolled to be a healer, but didn't want to play the other healing classes on this campaing (3 player campaign with her, and a arcane archer and a barbarian).

Given enough short rests the healing output was ok, but was looking towards higher levels, and I wasn't sure if the Celestial Expended spell list should've also provided other higher level healing options for the Warlock's Mystic Arcanum feature? Possilby selecting two healing or radiant spells for 6th-9th level spells for the Warlock to choose from?

Just thought that upon gaining 5th level spells the Warlock's healing output doesn't increase much past that.

Another consideration, was to possibly add some home-brewed Eldritch Invocations that are a bit more Celestial/Healing based - possibly something along the lines of giving Mass Cure Wounds, once per long rest with a 9th level prerequisite?

Thoughts are appreciated!

[rbstr]

You're usually not going to upset any balance by changing spell lists. So there's no problem with adding some higher level healing as mystic arcanum options. IMO it should have been part of the class to start.

Adding an invocation or two is also fine. Just make sure to compare it to what the other invos can do and keep the spell level and frequency within those bounds.

[Hobb]

Cool thanks for the quick reply,

Regarding invocations I was leaning towards the 9th level conjure elemental, which is the same spell level, and can be cast once per long rest?

[Angelalex242]

I've always thought Celestial Warlocks should have summon angel once per day as a Mystic Arcana.

"I summon my boss!"

[Hobb]

I've always thought Celestial Warlocks should have summon angel once per day as a Mystic Arcana.

"I summon my boss!"

Funnily Enough 7th Level Conjure Celestial was one of the "Expanded Spell List" options I'd written down!

[Greywander]

I haven't played a healer before, but from what I've heard you don't really need a healer in 5e. Generally it's more effective to prevent a character from taking damage in the first place than it is to heal that damage after the fact. That's why Healing Word often seems to be regarded as the best healing spell: it's ranged, usable as a bonus action, only 1st level, and even if the healing is weak it's still enough to pick up a party member from 0 HP. And you get it as a class feature. Just keep yoyoing your party members until you can either kill the bad guys or run away, then take a short rest and spend hit dice to heal.

You can also take Cure Wounds, and cast it immediately before a short rest to save on hit dice.

I'd recommend explore control and support options, either for yourself or for your party members. Locking down one or two monsters while you deal with their friends goes a long way toward reducing the damage you take in a fight. Similarly, status effect that reduces an enemy's ability to fight can also skew things heavily in your favor. If you play it right, you shouldn't even need healing except in the toughest of encounters.

[lordshadowisle]

Having played a celestial warlock, I find it a great secondary healer but not especially great main healer. Lack of healing spell selection is one issue, the other is a lack of spell slots. The latter means that the celestial warlock is generally fine if a short rest is available between combats (especially since Celestial Resilience recharges on SR), but is lacking if multiple encounters are chained together. In particular, there is a sort of unfun tension between using the spell slot for something useful or to reserve it for healing (or revivify).

Without homebrewing, you can give the player some spell-storage magic item (eg ring of spell storing) to "smooth out" their spell slots.

[carrdrivesyou]

The Celestial Warlock gets a more powerful version of Healing Word as a class feature at 1st level. The range is 60t and the die pool are d6s. Additionally, They are bonus action uses; consider the fact that you get so many of them and you have a large healing pool for yo-yo healing. You could also apply invocations and such to EB to keep up with the damage.

[Hobb]

Yeh, usually they're not great main healers, but seeing as it is our only healing outside of Second Wind and Healer's Kits we're trying to tweak it slightly to give it a bit more healing at higher levels.

So far i've added 2 spells from the Cleric Spell List for each Mystic Arcanum spell level, obviously they only get to select one of each of these anyway.

Then regarding Invocations, I've swapped out Conjure Elemental for Mass Cure Wounds, once per long rest, and added it can only be used out of combat (more as a top up spell if story doesn't allow for a short rest just yet type deal xD)

And then for the second Invocation change, I have allowed to add the Charisma Modifier, to each cast of Healing Light (not to each dice spent, as that seems pretty strong?)

Also considering adjusting Agonising Blast to include Sacred Flame, to mix up the cantrip options a bit.

[Greywander]

Then regarding Invocations, I've swapped out Conjure Elemental for Mass Cure Wounds, once per long rest, and added it can only be used out of combat (more as a top up spell if story doesn't allow for a short rest just yet type deal xD)
Eh, I dislike such arbitrary limitations. Give it a casting time of 1 minute and it won't be practical to use in combat, but won't slow you down out of combat, either. That way, there will be no ambiguity over when you are "allowed" to cast the spell, only a question of if you have the time to do so.

Out of curiosity, is there a reason why you wouldn't want to cast it in combat? Would it be a problem to allow it? I mean, you are expending a spell slot, and you can only do it once per long rest. If you really need to blow it during combat, would that be a problem?


Also considering adjusting Agonising Blast to include Sacred Flame, to mix up the cantrip options a bit.
Celestial warlocks already get this as a class feature at 6th level. Not just for Sacred Flame, but for all radiant and fire damage spells. Yes, spells, not just cantrips.

That said, even without Agonizing Blast, the bonus damage to Sacred Flame only makes it comparable to Eldritch Blast, and with Agonizing Blast it falls far behind Eldritch Blast. I discussed some ways to "fix" this in another thread, but people seemed to be resistant to the idea of making Agonizing Blast apply to more than just Eldritch Blast.

Another possibility would be to allow Sacred Flame to deal half damage on a successful save, either as part of Agonizing Blast or as its own invocation.

[Hobb]

Eh, I dislike such arbitrary limitations. Give it a casting time of 1 minute and it won't be practical to use in combat, but won't slow you down out of combat, either. That way, there will be no ambiguity over when you are "allowed" to cast the spell, only a question of if you have the time to do so.

Out of curiosity, is there a reason why you wouldn't want to cast it in combat? Would it be a problem to allow it? I mean, you are expending a spell slot, and you can only do it once per long rest. If you really need to blow it during combat, would that be a problem?


Celestial warlocks already get this as a class feature at 6th level. Not just for Sacred Flame, but for all radiant and fire damage spells. Yes, spells, not just cantrips.

That said, even without Agonizing Blast, the bonus damage to Sacred Flame only makes it comparable to Eldritch Blast, and with Agonizing Blast it falls far behind Eldritch Blast. I discussed some ways to "fix" this in another thread, but people seemed to be resistant to the idea of making Agonizing Blast apply to more than just Eldritch Blast.

Another possibility would be to allow Sacred Flame to deal half damage on a successful save, either as part of Agonizing Blast or as its own invocation.


Very valid points!

The limitation was mostly to avoid changing things too much. So far I've found that our Celestial warlock can heal in combat pretty well, with a small party of only 3, he can already cure wounds on one person and Healing Light another in a single turn. The Mass Cure Wounds was intended more as a out of combat top up when a rest wasn't available. But things might change between now and the 5 levels until it would unlock anyway.

The idea for Sacred Flame was to bring it up to Eldritch Blast, as soon Eldritch Blast will be doing 1D10+CHA twice (as each bolt is its own roll I'm assuming that CHA is added to each one?) Whereas Sacred Flame will just do 2D8+CHA, I figured 2D8+CHA+CHA would bring Sacred Flame closer maybe? Or would that be getting OP?

[rbstr]

CHA mod to healing light is more than doubling the feature's possible healing per day. Might be too strong. But I can see the argument that you might want to buff it some.

How about an invocation like "If you can no healing light die remaining, regain your CHA mod in healing light die when initiative is rolled"?


Very valid points!
The limitation was mostly to avoid changing things too much. So far I've found that our Celestial warlock can heal in combat pretty well, with a small party of only 3, he can already cure wounds on one person and Healing Light another in a single turn. The Mass Cure Wounds was intended more as a out of combat top up when a rest wasn't available. But things might change between now and the 5 levels until it would unlock anyway.
It's fine to make it "out of combat only" but do that by saying the spell has a 1 minute cast time when used via the invocation. In-combat/out-of-combat wording shouldn't really be used.



The idea for Sacred Flame was to bring it up to Eldritch Blast, as soon Eldritch Blast will be doing 1D10+CHA twice (as each bolt is its own roll I'm assuming that CHA is added to each one?) Whereas Sacred Flame will just do 2D8+CHA, I figured 2D8+CHA+CHA would bring Sacred Flame closer maybe? Or would that be getting OP?
That's fine. It's still not as good as EB. You might even let other EB invocations work with Sacred Flame.

[Hobb]

CHA mod to healing light is more than doubling the feature's possible healing per day. Might be too strong. But I can see the argument that you might want to buff it some.

How about an invocation like "If you can no healing light die remaining, regain your CHA mod in healing light die when initiative is rolled"?

The limitation was only applying the limitation to only allowing the modifier per time rolling, rather than per dice rolled. So if you need to use say 5D6 in one bang, you'd get 5D6+CHA, but if you only rolled 1D6, you'd get 1D6+CHA - so lower amounts of dice rolled are buffed a bit more, but bigger heals aren't. Might promote little and often, but especially at higher levels when bigger heals are required to bring people to safe amounts of health, it won't be overpowered maybe?



It's fine to make it "out of combat only" but do that by saying the spell has a 1 minute cast time when used via the invocation. In-combat/out-of-combat wording shouldn't really be used.

Ok, I'll tweak the wording to change the cast time, rather than combat specifics, thanks for the clarification!


[/QUOTE]That's fine. It's still not as good as EB. You might even let other EB invocations work with Sacred Flame.[/QUOTE]

I don't mind if its not as good as EB, I don't mind EB being better, just don't want it to be so much better that it removes other choices entirely. If something has a high AC, Sacred Flame (Or even Toll the Dying?) should be a viable alternative via targeting a Saving Throw. Players often figure out a targets AC (if its kept hidden) and soon work out if attacking that or a saving throw is more "optimal". Plus from a "story" perspective, I daresay dealing Radiant damage is more fitting for said character than Force damage?

Really loving all the help though =)