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Thrawn4
2018-06-18, 02:37 PM
Hello everyone.
Seeing as I have delved again into Star Wars Legend and as there are currently some threads about star wars rpgs, I would like ask about your favourite method of dealing with the dark side in an rpg. The way I see it, there are several approaches:

1. heroic
Used in Star Wars D6, the players are basically expected to follow the light side. The DM can still tempt them with dark side points which provide a huge bonus during one situation, but if a character earns enough dark side points, they may turn into NPCs unless they do something very self-less. Works well if the players want to be the good guys.

2. balance
This approach gives certain amounts of boni, for example certain force powers being cheaper for dark side or light side users.

3. bipolar balance
Used in the Kotor games, this approach gives certain amounts of boni, for example certain force powers being cheaper for dark side or light side users; additionally, those devoted to the light/dark side get additional boni. This can be good if you are of the opinion that dedicated Jedi/Sith should be more powerful, less so if you think that training and experience should be the determinator. Also, this approach is slightly min-maxi and encourages players to play steretypes.

4. fluff
Dark and light side use the same mechanics and are separated by fluff only.

5. dark side numbers advantage
Basically, the dark side IS more powerful/cheaper etc. However, the GM provides some other advantages to the light side, e. g. more allies/friends/better reputation.


Personally, I cannot decide and would like to hear your opinions.

Xuc Xac
2018-06-18, 02:56 PM
The Dark Side looks more powerful when you compare numbers but it's less effective in the long run because of the psychological disadvantages that come with it.

Every Sith "mastermind" that we see plotting and scheming is eventually undone when they stupidly throw away literal decades of planning because they can't resist gloating and giving a villainous monologue.

Palpatine spent several decades (before Anakin was born until Anakin was an old man) plotting. Then he gets killed by Anakin because he wanted to gloat and then got ticked off and tried torturing Luke to death. Gaining power from anger and hate is good for a frenzied berserker with a short lifespan, but it's not good for things like logical tactics and strategy.

If you use the dark side, you get more raw power, but you pay the price in idiocy and inefficiency.

Nifft
2018-06-18, 03:09 PM
6. The Dark Side is more powerful very briefly, after which it turns out to have been a trap. Using it is tempting, but risky in that you might cripple yourself.

Mechanically, this might be something like... when you are currently on the Light Side, then you can use the Dark Side of the Force to get a larger bonus than usual, but only when you risk moving part-way to the Dark Side. Once you're too far onto the Dark Side, you lose access to the normal Light Side bonus, and you don't get that larger Dark Side bonus any more since the Dark Side has you trapped right where it wants you.

Thrudd
2018-06-18, 03:22 PM
Depends on how you think the Dark Side should work in-universe. The movies seem to imply that there is a behavioral component- it isn't just that you get to use different powers, your morality actually changes. Either using the Dark Side powers turns you into a psychopath/sociopath, or being those things is what lets you use dark side powers, or both, in a perpetual cycle (which is why it "forever controls your destiny"). That's basically the WEG version. So a player would need to role play this in a rather specific way- using the force in anger tips you toward the dark side, which lets you use dark side powers but also requires you to start acting more evil. And, you can't use dark side powers unless you are doing it with anger and evil intent.

Thrawn4
2018-06-18, 03:26 PM
6. The Dark Side is more powerful very briefly, after which it turns out to have been a trap. Using it is tempting, but risky in that you might cripple yourself.

Mechanically, this might be something like... when you are currently on the Light Side, then you can use the Dark Side of the Force to get a larger bonus than usual, but only when you risk moving part-way to the Dark Side. Once you're too far onto the Dark Side, you lose access to the normal Light Side bonus, and you don't get that larger Dark Side bonus any more since the Dark Side has you trapped right where it wants you.

Well the trap-thing is not going to be balanced, and actually puts people at a disadvantage... so I guess it's like the heroic approach where you should play light side?

Thrawn4
2018-06-18, 03:30 PM
Depends on how you think the Dark Side should work in-universe. The movies seem to imply that there is a behavioral component- it isn't just that you get to use different powers, your morality actually changes. Either using the Dark Side powers turns you into a psychopath/sociopath, or being those things is what lets you use dark side powers, or both, in a perpetual cycle (which is why it "forever controls your destiny"). That's basically the WEG version. So a player would need to role play this in a rather specific way- using the force in anger tips you toward the dark side, which lets you use dark side powers but also requires you to start acting more evil. And, you can't use dark side powers unless you are doing it with anger and evil intent.

To me it sounds like WEG fluff (tempted by the dark side) but mechanics-wise it's more "5. dark side numbers advantage" as it provides boni but you have the disadvantage of acting evilly which might put NPCs off.

Darth Ultron
2018-06-18, 04:08 PM
I have always used the first one. I like good force powers and evil force powers...but also like the temptation to use dark and evil force powers.

I don't really go for the ''become an NPC'' idea....but more that in-universe you will suffer lots of social effects.

I also often add 'taint' and other evil effects from dark force powers...but I do this in all games. I like the idea of using power has a cost.

I use the idea that Dark Side Powers are quick, easy, direct and violent. So they can just about only be used for death and destruction.

Force Powers are more slow, complex, open and universal.

Telekinesis is a good example:

The Force can be used to move a object of any size anywhere, slowly.
The Dark side of the Force can be used to hurl and throw objects quickly and with great force or to quickly destroy an object.
Both can do very minor ones like 'hit a button' or 'flip a switch'.

S@tanicoaldo
2018-06-18, 07:53 PM
I'm running a Star wars game right now and the main appeal of it for me was using the dark side.

To me the dark side is not really evil that's too cheesy the dark side is raw emotion while the "Light" side is stoic control.

The dark side is all about embrace the chaos and embrace the emotional energy.

Picture that time you were very angry with someone and di or said something that hurt the person deeply or maybe revealed a secret or something.

You knew that was a bad thing to do, you knew that was wrong and that would make the person sad but you were so overwhelmed by your anger that you did it anyway, and it felt good, it felt right it felt pleasurable.

That's the intoxicating aspect of the dark side we are emotional beings but we can’t' let our emotions take over us because we do irrational things.

After some time you realized that what you did was wrong maybe you deeply hurt the person or even ruined their reputation and now you feel guilty but try not to think about. That's the dark side.

And all emotions can take someone to the dark side not only negative ones, love make people do crazy things, even murder sometimes.

And the dark side is powerful in the short run, picture a small kid being bullied by another larger and stronger kid, one day he got so tired and angry that he punches the larger kid and breaks his nose, it feels good and the anger surprised the other kid and he was able to get the best of him, but that's the short run the larger kid will face the smaller kid and this time he will be prepared to kick his ass.

The light side kid would not be bothered since he know that in the great scheme of things this provocation is nothing, he can't make it it but he can control how it affects him and he doesn't let it get to him, so in the long run he is the most powerful.

Dark side means a large burst of raw power but not real power. It means using your emotion to channel the force and letting your emotions take over.

While the light side means power and wisdom in the long run, it means controlling your own emotions and letting reason be the guide of your decisions.
So basically the dark side is all about the risks of letting fear and emotions take the best of you.

Ironically that’s exactly what the star wars fans are doing nowadays. :smallbiggrin:

Lapak
2018-06-19, 09:39 PM
I'm fond of the interpretation of the Dark Side from the Shadows of the Empire novel, where either side of the Force can be used for just about anything, but using it for something that was out of alignment with the side of the Force you embraced was difficult and sustaining it was impossible. For example, Darth Vader used the Dark Side to heal himself, allowing him to function without his suit's life support. But his power source was anger, hatred and rage - so as soon as he faltered, all that work was undone. 'Not feeling happiness or relief when you've just freed yourself from constant agony and disability' was too big an ask, so he lost his grip on the Force within a minute or two. The Dark Side is good for doing damage, for taking immediate action, for confronting an enemy. Doing anything that lasts, or doing anything subtle, is easier for Light Side users. A useful contrast is their mind powers. Compare how the Light Side folks do a mind trick versus how Kylo Ren breaks into people's heads and steals information.

So I guess my preferred mechanics would look something like this:

Any power can be employed with the Dark Side of the Force, but:
- All aggressive powers, combat or otherwise, get a bonus when employed with the Dark Side.
- All powers used against someone or something seen as a hated enemy also get a substantial bonus when employed with the Dark Side; this stacks with the prior bonus.
- Each scene in which someone uses the Dark Side tilts the Force user to the Dark Side; this is either permanent or at least really hard to reverse.
- Force Users get a scaling malus based on their Dark Side tilt to the use of powers that are beneficial OR have a long-lasting effect.
- Force users with a Dark Side tilt also get a scaling malus to the use of ANY powers unless they are acting based on hatred, anger or rage.