[3.5] Extra Spell Cheese

[Luckmann]

First of all, let's settle that FAQ is not RAW and that there never was an errata to change the Extra Spell feat, despite there being ample time and opportunity to do so. Different tables may judge differently and homebrew is a thing, but this discussion has been done many times.

Instead, let's discuss the potential repercussions of Extra Spell RAW: What are some of the best picks you can think of with Extra Spell? :smallbiggrin:

Personally, the thought of starting this thread came from my realization that I could use Extra Spell to snag Haste from the Trapsmith spell-list in order to qualify for Swiftblade as a Duskblade, casting Haste as a 1st-level spell.

I'm not even necessarily asking for cheesy stuff, either. Definite bonus points for things that are simply cool or innovative, or ideas for qualifying for different prestige classes and such.

[Kalkra]

You might find this (http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=12661.0) link useful.

[Cosi]

The only real utility of RAW Extra Spell is doing Artificer/Chameleon list plundering. Just learning cure serious wounds as a Wizard is not really a think you care about. Also I guess some 3.0 PRCs that check a specific spell known. Get planar binding as a 4th level spell simply because Demonologists are a class that exists.

The best thing I can think of for off-list plundering is getting body outside body on a Theurge build with access to Persist Spell. Getting three or four mini-mes per cast with full access to your Binding as an Anima Mage is the kind of thing that might be good enough, for example. That's kind of marginal though, because you could just be a Wu Jen, and the list is not terrible.


Personally, the thought of starting this thread came from my realization that I could use Extra Spell to snag Haste from the Trapsmith spell-list in order to qualify for Swiftblade as a Duskblade, casting Haste as a 1st-level spell.

This doesn't work. Swiftblade is very clear that you have to spend all your 3rd level spell slots casting haste. Yes, the designer has said it shouldn't say that, but I think "the designer said it in an unofficial context" ranks lower than "the FAQ" on the canon totempole.

[Kalkra]

Heighten Spell?

EDIT: Duskblade, nevermind.

[RoboEmperor]

First of all, let's settle that FAQ is not RAW and that there never was an errata to change the Extra Spell feat, despite there being ample time and opportunity to do so. Different tables may judge differently and homebrew is a thing, but this discussion has been done many times.

Instead, let's discuss the potential repercussions of Extra Spell RAW: What are some of the best picks you can think of with Extra Spell? :smallbiggrin:

Personally, the thought of starting this thread came from my realization that I could use Extra Spell to snag Haste from the Trapsmith spell-list in order to qualify for Swiftblade as a Duskblade, casting Haste as a 1st-level spell.

I'm not even necessarily asking for cheesy stuff, either. Definite bonus points for things that are simply cool or innovative, or ideas for qualifying for different prestige classes and such.

The existence of PrCs such as Recaster and Wyrm Wizard are proof that extra spell does not grab spells outside the class's spell list.

As for the topic on hand, I go to extreme lengths to grab Surge of Fortune on my arcane casters. A forced natural 20 means there is literally a 0% chance of a planar binding going wrong, and a 100% success chance if you have the necessary charisma modifier.

Other spells I would grab is Lesser Planar Binding and Planar Binding from the Demonologist spell list to get access to these spells 4 levels earlier than normal.

[PhantasyPen]

"Best picks" kind of depends on what class you're playing as and what you're trying to do, but in general? I rather liked the time I "stole" Divine Might for my Abjuration wizard, and I'm quite fond of Flame Blade for the Duskblade.

[heavyfuel]

This doesn't work. Swiftblade is very clear that you have to spend all your 3rd level spell slots casting haste

Is there a rule that says you can't spend your 3rd level spell slots by casting 2nd level spells though? There isn't.

You just have to wait until lv 9 to qualify, but you still do.

[Jormengand]

Swiftblade is very clear that you have to spend all your 3rd level spell slots casting haste.

What, all zero of them? Shouldn't be hard, I think.

[Luckmann]

This doesn't work. Swiftblade is very clear that you have to spend all your 3rd level spell slots casting haste. Yes, the designer has said it shouldn't say that, but I think "the designer said it in an unofficial context" ranks lower than "the FAQ" on the canon totempole.Crud, you're right. For some reason I had gotten it into my head that it just said previous level or something, but it explicitly calls out 3rd level.

Still, honestly tempted to take it twice, especially retraining is allowed - first at lvl 3 to qualify and then at lvl 1. Fits with the flavor of becoming a swiftblade, too.
Heighten Spell?

EDIT: Duskblade, nevermind.Oh, please don't get hung up on that. Duskblade->Swiftblade was just my first idea (and doesn't even work, really, although it's still a solid way to qualify, just not as good as I first thought), but any cool ideas are fair game.

Edit:
Is there a rule that says you can't spend your 3rd level spell slots by casting 2nd level spells though? There isn't.

You just have to wait until lv 9 to qualify, but you still do.That's an extremely good point.