An AL thread

[Lolzyking]

I am currently working on a change.org petition to modify the +1 rule that plagues organized play

For those interested the premise will be that a players Choice of race should not impact the their phb+1 decision

The main points is it punishes elemental evil, Volo and the latest book as choices because certain classes (sorcerer ) do not have thematic as archetype choices for their race ( genasi says hi)

Meanwhile there exist a plethora of min max exceptions to the rule already

1 wizard can copy any wizard see spell regardless of +1 choice

2 certificates for powerful races that are normally banned bypass the rule, winged tiefling hex blades and aarakokra kensi sharpshooters are legal.

3 this is legal through shenanigans: yuan ti bladesinger casting boominblade on his shadow blade while rocking a free variant human feat


I would like to hear other arguements and here the non al opinion on the debacle as well

[Naanomi]

So... ‘choose either SCAG or XGtE for subclass, feat, and/or spell options’?

[Lolzyking]

So... ‘choose either SCAG or XGtE for subclass, feat, and/or spell options’?

Yes that's the entire point, as a dm at a flgs I have to allow any legal character to sit at my table , is it fair to tell a player that they can't play a genasi storm sorcerer, a Kenku whisper bard or a aasimar celestial warlock when I have to allow the aarakokra gloomstalker/kensei and the yuanti blade singer with xgte spells and a free feat.

[Naanomi]

Um... I mean... yes? I’ll admit the limitations sometimes seem arbitrary, and do cut off a few iconic and intuitive race/class combinations... but it is all laid out for you, no surprises. I don’t see it as a fairness issue as much as it is a minor annoyance intended to fix a problem that doesn’t exist (yet)

If you have frequent people showing up with rare race or class certs, I’d start being skeptical... most of the actual certs are hard to come by, and the rest are GM rewards and the like that take actual time to earn

Your hypothetical wizard Gish is jumping through a lot of hoops to get that power (and technically doesn’t become a real yuan-ti mechanically, just picks up a lot of potential traits); same with Dark Gifts

At the end of the day, in order to make interchangeable group play work, there are going to be sacrifices... including wonky and obnoxious ones. Consider it encouragement to find a stable play group to move on from AL; I only do AL for convention play really (and I have dozens of characters I’m ok playing, so I never feel jilted by losing access to a few specific combinations)

[Lolzyking]

Um... I mean... yes? I’ll admit the limitations sometimes seem arbitrary, and do cut off a few iconic and intuitive race/class combinations... but it is all laid out for you, no surprises. I don’t see it as a fairness issue as much as it is a minor annoyance intended to fix a problem that doesn’t exist (yet)

If you have frequent people showing up with rare race or class certs, I’d start being skeptical... most of the actual certs are hard to come by, and the rest are GM rewards and the like that take actual time to earn

Your hypothetical wizard Gish is jumping through a lot of hoops to get that power (and technically doesn’t become a real yuan-ti mechanically, just picks up a lot of potential traits); same with Dark Gifts

At the end of the day, in order to make interchangeable group play work, there are going to be sacrifices... including wonky and obnoxious ones. Consider it encouragement to find a stable play group to move on from AL; I only do AL for convention play really (and I have dozens of characters I’m ok playing, so I never feel jilted by losing access to a few specific combinations)

I agree there has to be limitations, and I feel class/feat/spell is fair. Race is more background this edition than ever before and they already let you use any background from any book.

I like organized play, organized play is the only dnd I get to have, so I'm going to try to force common sense into AL.


I would have just made a grass roots alternate dnd 5e organized play group but I was told I would be given a cease and desist If I tried to advertise it.

[Contrast]

I would have just made a grass roots alternate dnd 5e organized play group but I was told I would be given a cease and desist If I tried to advertise it.

Haha what? I mean I'm not a lawyer but that's ridiculous. Whoever told you that is an idiot, if you want to set up a gaming group feel free dude.

[Sariel Vailo]

Yeaaah that phb plus 1 thing sucks. I wanted to be an fallen aasimar oath of the crown paladin, couldnt. It was not even that optimized.

[Lolzyking]

Haha what? I mean I'm not a lawyer but that's ridiculous. Whoever told you that is an idiot, if you want to set up a gaming group feel free dude.
Rhymes with tris Jenkins , meremy dawford and pike pearls

[Moredhel24]

I would have just made a grass roots alternate dnd 5e organized play group but I was told I would be given a cease and desist If I tried to advertise it.

WTF. Can that really happen if you try an organize an Alt AL, how is that different than running home games? If you have a regular group of players, you could always claim that the flgs is allowing you to use their space since you don't have an appropriate place of your own.

Personally don't like the PHB +1 rule or AL in general but can see why that rule is in place. Makes it easier to keep things organized/trackable and fits the 5e concept of KISS.

[Quoxis]

I would have just made a grass roots alternate dnd 5e organized play group but I was told I would be given a cease and desist If I tried to advertise it.

Yup, and Marilyn Manson had part of his ribcage surgically removed to be able to... i guess you know where this is going.
I‘d like to see any case where this has happened, any form of legal advice or at least the source of that rumour before i believe it’s more than just that.

[PeteNutButter]

The rule is dumb and pointless. It saves no time in tracking for the DM as different players will be using different +1s. There are no broken combinations that compare to the strength of options in the PHB. The variant human is going to be the best race for like 90% of characters. You don’t need to nerf the class and spell choices of non-phb races so it’s even harder for them to compete. Just let my Kobold be a gloomstalker, or my aasimar be a redemption paladin, or... etc

All that said, they won’t change the rule.

[Lolzyking]

The point was I was told I would be c&d by wotc staff if I tried to organize alt AL and still use the pre existing al content that we still like and appreciate.

[Contrast]

The point was I was told I would be c&d by wotc staff if I tried to organize alt AL and still use the pre existing al content that we still like and appreciate.

You were told that by high ranking people at WotC? :smallconfused:

Again I'm not a lawyer (I think this forum may even have a rule against giving legal advice) but I can confirm that I am a member of gaming club who run any and all RPGs that take their fancy, including official, unofficial and AL adventures, modified to the whim of the running GM. No threatening letters to date :smalltongue:

[PhoenixPhyre]

If you wanted to actually call it Adventurer's League or claim that WotC was sponsoring it (as in actually calling it official organized play), then you'd be infringing on trademarks. Or if you try to cross-play with real AL on the same characters.

If you want to create a group of people that play AL modules, and don't claim any connection to the real thing, then you're safe.

[Knaight]

Again I'm not a lawyer (I think this forum may even have a rule against giving legal advice) but I can confirm that I am a member of gaming club who run any and all RPGs that take their fancy, including official, unofficial and AL adventures, modified to the whim of the running GM. No threatening letters to date :smalltongue:

We can't give legal advice, but that doesn't mean that we can't make comments on the law outside an advice capacity. In that outside capacity, the whole idea of a WotC C&D sounds downright ridiculous. There's no way that there's an IP violation there, and unlike some companies* WotC isn't particularly likely to send out threatening C&Ds that they don't even have a basis for to accomplish nothing.

Also a C&D can be dealt with by ceasing and desisting.

*Disney.