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View Full Version : DM Help Alternate World War I: World Building/System Help



Xenopax
2018-06-21, 06:17 AM
Basically WWI didn't stop when it did in our history. It technically never ended. The world has gone to hell. It's going to be like a survival game using the 40k rpg system. I need help with ideas for what the world is like now. I was thinking of having it happen in an alternate 2018. Suggestions?
EDIT: Here's a Google Doc (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cRvuN573-YRKg7tUQb6ZZo8CN59n9gdxoX2_6sPrU1c/edit?usp=sharing) for some of the changes to the Black Crusade system. Credits to Blackwindkaze for making this for a Fallout game.

DCraw
2018-06-23, 06:51 PM
A few things to consider:

How has technology developed? War is certainly a great stimulus for tech development, but it does shape the direction of progress. The space race wouldn't have happened during a (hot) war, for instance, as neither side would have had the resources to spare. Ballistic missile research would have continued though, and there may well have been battles in space / weaponisation of satellites, but we would not have gone to the moon.

How active is the War? Neither side had the population to support the meatgrinder approach for much longer than they did, so an ongoing war would probably have devolved into a stalemate, or tech might had changed the nature of the war to allow for a slower burn.

What happens to Russia? Do they still surrender in 1917 after the Revolution? Are they drawn back into the War once they've stabilised? Does the ongoing War affect the Trotsky/Stalin power struggle?

Remember that with an ongoing WW1, there would likely be no Nazi regime and no WW2 - these were both causally related (though not exclusively caused by) the fallout from the end of the War.

Similarly, what happens with America? How do they develop once they are drawn in fully? Depending on what happens with Russia there may or may not have been a Cold War, as the USSR would be an ally in the ongoing War.

What happens to Britain? Does the breakup of the Empire continue as scheduled, or does the ongoing war create enough patriotism to hold things together? Alternately, does the economic strain force more of the colonies to seek independence sooner / more completely? In Australia, for instance, historically we still saw Britain as the Mother Country in the early 40's, but if WW1 kept going, and Britain kept treating us the way they did during that war, it may have forced a split.

What happens in Asia? They weren't part of the main fighting in WW1, but there would probably still be conflict between China and Japan. Is this enough for Mao to rise? If they can stay out of the fray, do they become an industrial powerhouse in the way that the US did by avoiding the worst of the destruction from WW2?

Mechalich
2018-06-23, 07:44 PM
How active is the War? Neither side had the population to support the meatgrinder approach for much longer than they did, so an ongoing war would probably have devolved into a stalemate, or tech might had changed the nature of the war to allow for a slower burn.

Yeah, I think you have to have some sort of armistice for WWI to avoid ending prior to 1920 in some fashion. There's just no other way around it. Ironically, the primary way to prolong WWI is to have the US remain outside of the war, which would allow Germany to hold on for a longer period of time.

What you could do, instead, is up the virulence of the 1918 Spanish Flu. If the lethality of this pandemic is increased to kill the majority of the infected, you could conceivably talk about a death toll killing close to 500 million, or roughly a fourth of the global population. That would certainly be sufficiently destabilizing to result in an armistice, with active conflict not resuming for a decade or so. You could also allow the various powers to fortify extensively during this period, which would make it difficult to achieve a decisive victory in a renewed conflict.

However, you still have the problem of sustaining a great powers war once nukes inevitably get developed. The general situation here is that the first country to develop nukes builds a few dozen and conquers the world sometime in the mid-1950s. So you'd need a specific circumstance to avoid that happening.

Xenopax
2018-06-23, 10:53 PM
Sorry for not replying earlier. GITP kept bugging out on me

A few things to consider:

How has technology developed? War is certainly a great stimulus for tech development, but it does shape the direction of progress. The space race wouldn't have happened during a (hot) war, for instance, as neither side would have had the resources to spare. Ballistic missile research would have continued though, and there may well have been battles in space / weaponisation of satellites, but we would not have gone to the moon.

How active is the War? Neither side had the population to support the meatgrinder approach for much longer than they did, so an ongoing war would probably have devolved into a stalemate, or tech might had changed the nature of the war to allow for a slower burn.

What happens to Russia? Do they still surrender in 1917 after the Revolution? Are they drawn back into the War once they've stabilised? Does the ongoing War affect the Trotsky/Stalin power struggle?

Remember that with an ongoing WW1, there would likely be no Nazi regime and no WW2 - these were both causally related (though not exclusively caused by) the fallout from the end of the War.

Similarly, what happens with America? How do they develop once they are drawn in fully? Depending on what happens with Russia there may or may not have been a Cold War, as the USSR would be an ally in the ongoing War.

What happens to Britain? Does the breakup of the Empire continue as scheduled, or does the ongoing war create enough patriotism to hold things together? Alternately, does the economic strain force more of the colonies to seek independence sooner / more completely? In Australia, for instance, historically we still saw Britain as the Mother Country in the early 40's, but if WW1 kept going, and Britain kept treating us the way they did during that war, it may have forced a split.

What happens in Asia? They weren't part of the main fighting in WW1, but there would probably still be conflict between China and Japan. Is this enough for Mao to rise? If they can stay out of the fray, do they become an industrial powerhouse in the way that the US did by avoiding the worst of the destruction from WW2?
I was thinking of them getting much further than we are in weaponry but not so far in other tech. Las and Plasma are a thing but are really rare to find and hard to get ammo/Recharges for. So they'll still be using mainly flame/SP. Genetics might be a thing too.
The war is all but dead. The Goverments on each side don't really exist anymore but there's a bunch of soldiers who don't really realize it. So it's more raiding groups. Some of the bigger cities still send troops to fight against whoever they were fighting in the war. So it really depends on where you are.
America becomes an Xenophobic super state. The American people were disgusted by what happened to the world so they basically blocked themselves off. You can still immigrate in but you have to prove why they need you. Mexico has been annexed into the states and Some of Canada. America is much more advanced than the rest of the world because it hasn't been through as much war. They send in helicopters with scientists and armed soldiers every so often all over the world.
Russia is split. In this AU the Tsar got away and started up a revolution against Lenin. So most of it is communist and a much smaller part is is Royalist. The Communist portion is poorer but has more people. The Royalist part is richer and has better weapons but is smaller.
Britain has become a bunch of mini empires. The Royal family has split up. The actual heirs hold the majority of the land but it's still a small portion. I haven't worked on Britain much because i couldn't really think of anything for it.
Japan ended up hiring it's people out as soldiers/workers for money to buy food. There were too many people and not enough land to support them all. Approximately half of the population of Japanese are sent out of Japan. The Samurai caste doesn't really exist anymore. The last emperor ended up selling most of them out and executed the rest. Japanese mercenaries are renowned across the eastern half of the world for their loyalty. The workers never really caught on.
China never became communist. They are fighting Russian communists and Indian insurgents. Japan and China came to an armstice when India sent a massive army against them in a bid to gain more land. China took Korea too. They are ruled by a dual system. The emperor has one vote an all of their congress has one vote. Any ties are solved through some game of chance so that the heavens may decide the Victor.
Most of the British colonies ended up free. Britain didn't have the man power to hold them. Australia ended up becoming even more of a wasteland. The British were driven out through an armed revolt. The chemicals and destruction ended up rendering what little fertile land as sterile. Sydney is the only city left and is constantly under fire from the Tribes and other countries. Imagine Australian Cadia. Sydney Mercs are well known and are wanted all across the Southern Hemisphere for their skills in hand to hand combat along with fortresses (both attacking and defending)
India ended up becoming a theocracy. The holy trinity of the Hindu gods ended up merging with a few other religions and made a single religion that everyone is demanded to follow. I haven't worked out the details but basically, you're supposed to do 3 things. Create, sustain, destroy. This is done in 3 year cycles. Crafting items is seen as a holy art and Indian made art goes for a high price. The first year is devoted to creation of tools weapons whatever. For the second year, Farmers all over India farm the crops and sustain life. They gather food for 3 years. And warriors are sent out every 3rd year to destroy everything in their paths until they die or they run out of weapons. There are 3 leaders who each lead for a year with support from the other 2. The Head Artisan, The Raja and the General (names subject to change)

Yeah, I think you have to have some sort of armistice for WWI to avoid ending prior to 1920 in some fashion. There's just no other way around it. Ironically, the primary way to prolong WWI is to have the US remain outside of the war, which would allow Germany to hold on for a longer period of time.

What you could do, instead, is up the virulence of the 1918 Spanish Flu. If the lethality of this pandemic is increased to kill the majority of the infected, you could conceivably talk about a death toll killing close to 500 million, or roughly a fourth of the global population. That would certainly be sufficiently destabilizing to result in an armistice, with active conflict not resuming for a decade or so. You could also allow the various powers to fortify extensively during this period, which would make it difficult to achieve a decisive victory in a renewed conflict.

However, you still have the problem of sustaining a great powers war once nukes inevitably get developed. The general situation here is that the first country to develop nukes builds a few dozen and conquers the world sometime in the mid-1950s. So you'd need a specific circumstance to avoid that happening. Yeah the USA stayed out of the war. Didn't touch it (the Government didn't atleast).
Good idea on the Spanish Flu! I might make it something created by France/Germany instead though.
Nukes were being developed in America, Australia and Germany. Americas were finished. Australia destroyed their research facilities when they rebelled. Germany had their research destroyed by the US so that they wouldn't become a threat. So only the US has Nukes. Opinions? I still need to do Germany and France (along with expansion of Britain)
Also I'm thinking of having people like Hitler and Gandhi still be there but different to go with the setting. Like Gandhi could have been one of the Rajas of India and Hitler could have been something for Germany (once i get it figured out). Good idea or will I get hate?

The Glyphstone
2018-06-23, 11:59 PM
Are you looking for anything approaching logical plausibility, or is Rule of Cool predominant in your design goal? That will heavily shape advice.

Xenopax
2018-06-24, 02:18 AM
The rule of cool only applies as long as it can be justified. And I don't want to lose the theme. So stuff like super soldiers (as in captain America type) and clockwork mechanical replacement arms are good but (taking fallout for an example) Super Mutants wouldn't be. So mostly the former.

Pleh
2018-06-24, 09:41 AM
Big question: did we ever develop nuclear bombs? That was a bigger technological definition of history than most of what happened in the first war.

The scientific principles that developed nukes was mostly there during that first war. About the only thing that could prevent them becoming manifest in the AU is if research is diverted elsewhere, but that's unlikely if research is still heavy into military applications (which it kinda has to be if plasma weapons are a thing).

So what regions are still struggling through nuclear winter?

Xenopax
2018-06-24, 09:58 AM
America has nukes and has stopped anyone else from getting access to them. Not saying that they were 100% successful but no where else is known to have them. Nuclear reactors are a thing and so is small scale radiation weaponry. Nuclear Reactors are Much rarer (a few cities in a developed country may have them) but rad weapons are seen more. People don't take kindly to you using them though. There's also a small thing called radiation sickness.

Summary: None but a few former research areas are Hiroshima, Nagasaki level except smaller.