How Long Can A Skeleton Run?

[Palanan]

For living creatures, how long they can run is tied to their Constitution score. But undead, by definition, have no Constitution score.

So, how would you rule this? Can a skeleton run indefinitely? Or can it not run at all?

[ngilop]

For living creatures, how long they can run is tied to their Constitution score. But undead, by definition, have no Constitution score.

So, how would you rule this? Can a skeleton run indefinitely? Or can it not run at all?

I think the rules kinda leave this out and what I am about to say is more of a houserule than an actual in a book on page XX paragraph XX kinda thing.


But, for me the run action is a creature pushing its body further/harder than what is the norm for that particular creature.

Since Undead do not have actual functioning biology they really can't push past. what they have when they are created is what they have at any time, barring outside influence. SO while they have immunity to fatigue and exhaustion, they also have no constitution so they cannot push past to get into the 'im fatigueing my body to exceed limits' aspect of running.

Again, that is just how I have always done it. I think Running involves a constitution check and since they have no consituion they are not able to perform actions based on that particular ability.. COuld be wrong though.

[Elkad]

It's not defined anywhere.

Either they can run forever, or can't run at all. Up to the DM. My ruling is yes.

Same with anything else with Con:null. If they can run, Phantom Steed peaks out at 110mph at CL12

[rferries]

From 3.5 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#nonabilities):


Any living creature has at least 1 point of Constitution. A creature with no Constitution has no body or no metabolism. It is immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save unless the effect works on objects or is harmless. The creature is also immune to ability damage, ability drain, and energy drain, and automatically fails Constitution checks. A creature with no Constitution cannot tire and thus can run indefinitely without tiring (unless the creature’s description says it cannot run).

Assuming this carries over, they can run forever.

[PrismCat21]

Replying to both posters above.
Edit: 1st two posters

Modes of Movement
While moving at the different movement scales, creatures generally walk, hustle, or run.

Walk
A walk represents unhurried but purposeful movement (3 miles per hour for an unencumbered adult human). A character moving his speed one time in a single round, is walking when he or she moves.

Hustle
A hustle is a jog (about 6 miles per hour for an unencumbered human). A character moving his speed twice in a single round, or moving that speed in the same round that he or she performs a standard action or another move action, is hustling when he or she moves.

Run (×3)
Moving three times speed is a running pace for a character in heavy armor (about 7 miles per hour for a human in full plate).

Run (×4)
Moving four times speed is a running pace for a character in light, medium, or no armor (about 12 miles per hour for an unencumbered human, or 9 miles per hour for a human in chainmail.)

All running is, is focusing on movement above anything else.
Can a skeleton hustle? Attack and move in the same round? Why not then, run?

You can run no matter what you're Con score is. Only continuous running require a save.
Due to having no Con score, they can run indefinitely.

[Bronk]

For living creatures, how long they can run is tied to their Constitution score. But undead, by definition, have no Constitution score.

So, how would you rule this? Can a skeleton run indefinitely? Or can it not run at all?

Reading through the section on running, you can run for a number of rounds equal to your con score, which skeletons don't have, and run isn't a special ability that devolves to charisma for undead.

It follows that up to say that you can continue running with a fort save, but although they can make fort saves, they can't continue something if they haven't started yet.

I don't think they can run at all.

[Psyren]

From 3.5 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#nonabilities):



Assuming this carries over, they can run forever.

I would say this is the most relevant rule. The default is that Con-less creatures can run forever unless something says they can't. Skeletons don't have a prohibition, thus they can run forever.

Zombies meanwhile can't, because they can't take the necessary full-round action to run.

[Bronk]

I would say this is the most relevant rule. The default is that Con-less creatures can run forever unless something says they can't. Skeletons don't have a prohibition, thus they can run forever.

Zombies meanwhile can't, because they can't take the necessary full-round action to run.

I can't find a similar section about nonabilities in the pfsrd though... Is it there? You'd know better than I would about Pathfinder.

[Telonius]

Well, there is this in Pathfinder's Undead Type (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/):


No Constitution score. Undead use their Charisma score in place of their Constitution score when calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special ability that relies on Constitution (such as when calculating a breath weapon’s DC).

I'm not sure if "being able to run" counts as a "special ability that relies on Constitution," but it would get us out of the never/infinity paradox.

[Psyren]

I can't find a similar section about nonabilities in the pfsrd though... Is it there? You'd know better than I would about Pathfinder.

That entire section never made it to Pathfinder, but nevertheless it's probably as close as we're going to get.

[DrMotives]

The original Dark Sun books actually had giant vehicles powered by mindless undead. The inside of the wheel were essentially hamster wheels that the undead would walk tirelessly to drive through the desert. So undead being tireless is pretty consistent for a while.

[Rynjin]

Reading through the section on running, you can run for a number of rounds equal to your con score, which skeletons don't have, and run isn't a special ability that devolves to charisma for undead.

It follows that up to say that you can continue running with a fort save, but although they can make fort saves, they can't continue something if they haven't started yet.

I don't think they can run at all.

Wrong logic.

They have no Con, therefore they get no rounds of running before they need to make Fort saves to continue running. However undead are both:

"Not subject to nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Constitution, Dexterity, and Strength), as well as to exhaustion and fatigue effects."

Which are the only downsides to running past your limit/failing your save AND possess:


Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).

Basically: they are immune to Fort saves, and even if they were and failed, they're immune to the condition running past their limit would apply.

[Nifft]

Skeletons are very skinny, and thus resemble distance runners.

Therefore they have aesthetic justification to run forever.

[Bronk]

That entire section never made it to Pathfinder, but nevertheless it's probably as close as we're going to get.

It's okay that Pathfinder has slow skeletons. It's a living game, right? They can change it back if they want. Unless... I suppose it could be an aesthetic choice to differentiate itself from 3.5?


Skeletons are very skinny, and thus resemble distance runners.

Therefore they have aesthetic justification to run forever.

And yet, where would a distance runner be without being able to drip sweat everywhere?

I admit though, hydrating would look just like the skeleton from The Last Unicorn. Now that guy was slow!

[Nifft]

And yet, where would a distance runner be without being able to drip sweat everywhere?

It's just a dry run.

[Andor13]

Skeletons are very skinny, and thus resemble distance runners.

Therefore they have aesthetic justification to run forever.

"Why do you run, Skeleton?"
"I feel alive!"

[Seharvepernfan]

Yeah, I was bothered by this when I first realized it. Necro armies just sprinting everywhere day and night. Also, golems can run; that was a scary thought. Apparently zombies get AoO's as well.

[Psyren]

*
It's okay that Pathfinder has slow skeletons. It's a living game, right? They can change it back if they want. Unless... I suppose it could be an aesthetic choice to differentiate itself from 3.5?

They're not "slow" really, they have pretty much the same move speed they did when alive. Running pretty much only matters overland/for long distances anyway.

Besides, absent the 3.5 rule, the rule Rynjin quoted would take precedence.

[Andor13]

Yeah, I was bothered by this when I first realized it. Necro armies just sprinting everywhere day and night. Also, golems can run; that was a scary thought. Apparently zombies get AoO's as well.

"For the dead travel fast." - Bram Stoker

[erasedisknow]

Here's how I'd personally rule it, albeit, the way my brain works, it is somewhat of a silly answer.
For Skeletons specifically, it can run forever, but it has to occasionally make a DEX check to avoid tripping, and if it does trip, it has to make a reflex save to avoid either dying due to its bones scattering or having to take a brief pause to put itself back together.:xykon:

[Gnaeus]

Now I understand why it took 6 seasons for the walkers to reach the Wall.