RickAllison
2018-06-23, 06:05 AM
I like dinosaurs a lot, some might even say too much. I am setting up a new Pathfinder PC as a summoner with a fondness for dinosaurs, but this is my first summoner so I'm looking for some help. I've read through several guides, but I would rather like to keep to a somewhat realistic dinosaur to justify all my extra points for half-elf and Wild Caller. A few of the high points for a T-rex's predicted hunting habits:
The University of Maryland's Thomas R. Holtz Jr. has proposed that Tyrannosaurus attacked prey like canids and hyaenids do; seizing and killing prey with the jaws, with limited use of the forelimbs for capture and dispatch.
This sounds very much like Grab linked to bite. Also, to go with nomenclature from Saph's guide, this sounds more like a Chomper than a Pouncer.
They propose that the powerful bite forces of adults may have allowed them to act as large prey specialists and thereby alleviate competition with younger tyrannosaurs.[7] The juveniles according to the scientists were long-legged runners, but had relatively shallow skulls that were incapable of anchoring the muscles necessary to generate an adult Tyrannosaurus' bite force. However when the animals grew their jaw muscles grew exponentially to the point that these muscles were huge even for animals of their size.
Great excuse for varying the strengths of the eidolon through the earlier levels when points and evolutions are limited. Larger T-rexes could pull off the high-power bite with more feats and evolutions, while younger ones could profit stick with a strategy more focused on multiple, smaller attacks. It is notable that raptors tended toward low-strength, but fast bites and complemented them with claws.
In a lecture on 2013, Thomas Holtz Jr. would point out that torsion is encountered when biting into struggling prey and Tyrannosaurus resistance to torsional loads showed that it used a 'puncture and pull' method as opposed to the 'bite and slice' of many other theropods. He would also elaborate that like many reptiles, many dinosaurs did not have a hard palate. Tyrannosaurus, however had a hard palate, just like mammals and crocodiles.[5] Holtz along with James O. Farlow would also support freelance researcher Gregory S. Paul's suggestion that Tyrannosaurus could have used hit-and-run attacks on its prey.
The two hunting methods here are interesting. The "bite and slice" strategy looks to be focused on ripping out tendons or arteries, harrying the prey until a decisive blow could be struck. The "puncture and pull" method looked to hinge on the incredibly powerful sense of smell that led many paleontologists to speculate on T-rex as a primary scavenger. The T-rex could hunt megafauna because it didn't need to fight it the entire way. If it got one big bite in, the heavy bleeding the prey would incur would both weaken it as it fled and mark its trail for the predator to follow. Bleed seems like a good evolution for this, as well as Scent.
David A. Krauss and John M. Robinson proposed that Tyrannosaurus could have used a hunting strategy similar in concept to “cow tipping” against Triceratops, where the Tyrannosaurus would ambush and knock the Triceratops over to fall on its side. This strategy, according to the Krauss and Robinson could explain the unique characteristics of Tyrannosaurus. Tyrannosaurus' small, yet strong arms could have been adapted to grasp onto the back of Triceratops while pushing with its pectoral region, its large clawed feet would have given it better traction, its large head could have been used to tip the Triceratops over and its large mouth and bone piercing teeth would have made bites to the side more efficient and deadly. When the Triceratops had fallen over to its side, Tyrannosaurus would then bitten it at the rib cage; killing it. Krauss and Robinson backed up their proposal through physical analyses; finding that Tyrannosaurus moving at moderate speed could have generated enough force to topple Triceratops and would have only taken 2–3 seconds. Their study suggested that a Tyrannosaurus impacting the Triceratops at a conservative estimated speed of 7.5 meters per second would have enabled it to topple Triceratops without injuring itself, though there could be some variance depending on the sizes of the animals (Tyrannosaurus could have attacked a smaller Triceratops).
It looks like the short, T-rex arms are perfect for either Rake to reflect the added damage from the grapple, or pincers to aid in grappling. Tripping sounds like it was done in place of an attack, and for good reason. Whether you crawl away or stand up, trying to get away from prone leads to an opportunity attack from the T-rex, which leads to a bite, which leads to a grab.
Tyrannosaurus was once proposed to have had infectious saliva used to kill its prey. This theory was first proposed by William Abler.[58] Abler examined the teeth of tyrannosaurids between each tooth serration; the serrations may have held pieces of carcass with bacteria, giving Tyrannosaurus a deadly, infectious bite much like the Komodo dragon was thought to have.[59] However, Jack Horner regards Tyrannosaurus tooth serrations as more like cubes in shape than the serrations on a Komodo monitor's teeth, which are rounded.[60] All forms of saliva contain possibly hazardous bacteria, so the prospect of it being used as a method of predation is disputable.
Poison is fun, and T-rex could probably grab it if they wanted to spare the points. Further adds to only needing to get a single bite in...
Also thanks to this shaky empirical evidence, it seems likely that while the T-rex could theoretically use Swallow Whole, even a Medium creature is looking a little cramped. Thus I think I might hold out on trying to incorporate that in (though it may be something if I have spare evo points).
https://archosaurmusings.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/img_5520.jpg
So based on predicted hunting strategies of the T-rex, I am primarily looking for builds that focus on one big attack with some nasty secondary effects. Something like a chomper with grab and bleed, Trip would be nice. Combat Reflexes might be a good feat for this, to capitalize on a prey's weakness. I see three possible builds, each with its own perks.
The first would be a constrictor-serpentine. Grab legs to boost speed and focus on the big bite with added damage. If I wanted to keep the spirit of this, my DM did okay taking Racial Heritage: Serpentfolk, so I could take that and Final Embrace to get a better Grab and Constrict without any evolutions on a different base form.
The second would be a quadruped. The arms of the T-rex do not behave like many bipeds, and so it would be fitting to have the front "legs" running claws, rake, and rend while the back legs provide the locomotive force. The hunting style would match, and pounce could work well for the ambush hunting. Lie in wait, then pounce-charge at slightly higher speeds. When you get there, have a Gore attack as a headbutt that you can trip through either the combat maneuver or the evolution, bite for massive damage, then lock in with the claws to rip through with lots of smaller attacks. Evolution-expensive, but a half-elf Wild Caller can afford it once the evolutions start opening up.
The third and perhaps the most true-to-form would be a biped. This one more than any other seems ripe for Combat Reflexes. Reach, bite, and trip evolutions on the bite. Getting up from prone can be done in the grapple to avoid an opportunity attack at the cost of a move action, grapple can be escaped for a standard action, but leaving the 10 or 15' reach will mean risking going right back to square one. And if you teleport away, better hope that it is far enough away not to just charge.
Abilities: Rolled array of 16 16 14 13 9 8. As I like being the face and that is rather skill-heavy, I lean towards dumping two of my physical stats due to my archetypes, with slightly higher Int to make up for few skill points and an inability to grab the Skilled evolution for Aspect like most summoners.
Race: Half-elf. Multitalented is useless for me, so either Arcane Mastery or Fey Thoughts to pick up face skills. If I go with Combat Reflexes, Keen Senses and Adaptability will be replaced with Eye for Opportunity.
Class: Summoner, with DM-approved Synthesist and Wild Caller racial archetype. Taking alternate FCB for +1/4 evo point per level.
Skills: UMD is a must, as is Spellcraft since I am probably going to get Craft Wondrous Items since that includes all of my most important gear. I will have at least a few points in Handle Animal and Knowledge (Nature). I will probably throw a few points into Linguistics later to pick up languages for my other summons or languages that keep popping up in our games. Diplomacy and Intimidate are going to be mainstays, but personality-wise I'm not as concerned about Bluff. Intimidate can probably be neglected more as Intimidating Prowess could turn the 30+ Strength into a boost for the check.
Feats: This is where I have the most difficulty. Craft Wondrous Items could be awesome and another PC is focused on more general crafting so I can get wands through him. My DM has OKed Leadership and my character is interested in bringing his culture back from the brink of extinction so that is a compelling option. Other than that, the feats are rather dependent on what choices I'm going to be making. While my DM did OK natural attacks and such being met by the eidolon form, unless I can produce a rule otherwise I have to meet ability score requirements in caster-form to take a feat. I know that having a temporary bonus to abilities for 24 hours is treated as permanent, but I don't know if that also applies to replaced scores for a synthesist. If it does, I would love to see the rule so I can dump Strength. It feels weird to boost my Strength when I am only using the feat at a time when I meet the requirements.
Quadruped Pouncer: I don't really like this concept as it is so common, but it is very effective. Power Attack is a must as my damage is more distributed; the loss to attack isn't as bad while the bonus damage is on each hit. Much as I don't want to admit it, this build puts most of the onus on evolution points which is provided in spades by half-elf and Wild Caller, so I am more free to spend my feats on Augment Summons, social feats, and similar. It might win out just for that reason.
Biped Chomper: Combat Reflexes to dish out the hurt is the biggest one, then just do what I can to increase damage. Power Attack is one option, Weapon Focus, Ability Focus if I go poison. If I wanted to really dish out the pain and opportunity attacks, Combat Expertise/Dirty Fighting+Improved Trip=>Greater Trip for an extra attack on a trip, then Improved Unarmed Strike+Feral Combat Training=>Vicious Stomp. If I trip you, I can now pile on two attacks.
Constrictor: This one hurts. Final Embrace is required, either to grab/constrict to equal size or to get it after DM-approved Racial Heritage (serpentfolk) on a non-serpentine. If I do go that route, I could also spring for Serpentine Compression, which gives the compression ability so that even an Enlarged Huge eidolon can fit in a PC-sized hallway. And as an added bonus, the caster-form could squeeze through inches-wide cavities without making a check, which is just fun. If you want to maximize damage, Dirty Fighting=>Improve Grapple=>Greater=>Rapid would be nasty, and so would Final Embrace Master if it didn't require 17 Strength.
So how does the Playground think I should play a T-rex? Evisceration by laceration? Lockdown through chow-down? Or constrict 'til their breath quits?
The University of Maryland's Thomas R. Holtz Jr. has proposed that Tyrannosaurus attacked prey like canids and hyaenids do; seizing and killing prey with the jaws, with limited use of the forelimbs for capture and dispatch.
This sounds very much like Grab linked to bite. Also, to go with nomenclature from Saph's guide, this sounds more like a Chomper than a Pouncer.
They propose that the powerful bite forces of adults may have allowed them to act as large prey specialists and thereby alleviate competition with younger tyrannosaurs.[7] The juveniles according to the scientists were long-legged runners, but had relatively shallow skulls that were incapable of anchoring the muscles necessary to generate an adult Tyrannosaurus' bite force. However when the animals grew their jaw muscles grew exponentially to the point that these muscles were huge even for animals of their size.
Great excuse for varying the strengths of the eidolon through the earlier levels when points and evolutions are limited. Larger T-rexes could pull off the high-power bite with more feats and evolutions, while younger ones could profit stick with a strategy more focused on multiple, smaller attacks. It is notable that raptors tended toward low-strength, but fast bites and complemented them with claws.
In a lecture on 2013, Thomas Holtz Jr. would point out that torsion is encountered when biting into struggling prey and Tyrannosaurus resistance to torsional loads showed that it used a 'puncture and pull' method as opposed to the 'bite and slice' of many other theropods. He would also elaborate that like many reptiles, many dinosaurs did not have a hard palate. Tyrannosaurus, however had a hard palate, just like mammals and crocodiles.[5] Holtz along with James O. Farlow would also support freelance researcher Gregory S. Paul's suggestion that Tyrannosaurus could have used hit-and-run attacks on its prey.
The two hunting methods here are interesting. The "bite and slice" strategy looks to be focused on ripping out tendons or arteries, harrying the prey until a decisive blow could be struck. The "puncture and pull" method looked to hinge on the incredibly powerful sense of smell that led many paleontologists to speculate on T-rex as a primary scavenger. The T-rex could hunt megafauna because it didn't need to fight it the entire way. If it got one big bite in, the heavy bleeding the prey would incur would both weaken it as it fled and mark its trail for the predator to follow. Bleed seems like a good evolution for this, as well as Scent.
David A. Krauss and John M. Robinson proposed that Tyrannosaurus could have used a hunting strategy similar in concept to “cow tipping” against Triceratops, where the Tyrannosaurus would ambush and knock the Triceratops over to fall on its side. This strategy, according to the Krauss and Robinson could explain the unique characteristics of Tyrannosaurus. Tyrannosaurus' small, yet strong arms could have been adapted to grasp onto the back of Triceratops while pushing with its pectoral region, its large clawed feet would have given it better traction, its large head could have been used to tip the Triceratops over and its large mouth and bone piercing teeth would have made bites to the side more efficient and deadly. When the Triceratops had fallen over to its side, Tyrannosaurus would then bitten it at the rib cage; killing it. Krauss and Robinson backed up their proposal through physical analyses; finding that Tyrannosaurus moving at moderate speed could have generated enough force to topple Triceratops and would have only taken 2–3 seconds. Their study suggested that a Tyrannosaurus impacting the Triceratops at a conservative estimated speed of 7.5 meters per second would have enabled it to topple Triceratops without injuring itself, though there could be some variance depending on the sizes of the animals (Tyrannosaurus could have attacked a smaller Triceratops).
It looks like the short, T-rex arms are perfect for either Rake to reflect the added damage from the grapple, or pincers to aid in grappling. Tripping sounds like it was done in place of an attack, and for good reason. Whether you crawl away or stand up, trying to get away from prone leads to an opportunity attack from the T-rex, which leads to a bite, which leads to a grab.
Tyrannosaurus was once proposed to have had infectious saliva used to kill its prey. This theory was first proposed by William Abler.[58] Abler examined the teeth of tyrannosaurids between each tooth serration; the serrations may have held pieces of carcass with bacteria, giving Tyrannosaurus a deadly, infectious bite much like the Komodo dragon was thought to have.[59] However, Jack Horner regards Tyrannosaurus tooth serrations as more like cubes in shape than the serrations on a Komodo monitor's teeth, which are rounded.[60] All forms of saliva contain possibly hazardous bacteria, so the prospect of it being used as a method of predation is disputable.
Poison is fun, and T-rex could probably grab it if they wanted to spare the points. Further adds to only needing to get a single bite in...
Also thanks to this shaky empirical evidence, it seems likely that while the T-rex could theoretically use Swallow Whole, even a Medium creature is looking a little cramped. Thus I think I might hold out on trying to incorporate that in (though it may be something if I have spare evo points).
https://archosaurmusings.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/img_5520.jpg
So based on predicted hunting strategies of the T-rex, I am primarily looking for builds that focus on one big attack with some nasty secondary effects. Something like a chomper with grab and bleed, Trip would be nice. Combat Reflexes might be a good feat for this, to capitalize on a prey's weakness. I see three possible builds, each with its own perks.
The first would be a constrictor-serpentine. Grab legs to boost speed and focus on the big bite with added damage. If I wanted to keep the spirit of this, my DM did okay taking Racial Heritage: Serpentfolk, so I could take that and Final Embrace to get a better Grab and Constrict without any evolutions on a different base form.
The second would be a quadruped. The arms of the T-rex do not behave like many bipeds, and so it would be fitting to have the front "legs" running claws, rake, and rend while the back legs provide the locomotive force. The hunting style would match, and pounce could work well for the ambush hunting. Lie in wait, then pounce-charge at slightly higher speeds. When you get there, have a Gore attack as a headbutt that you can trip through either the combat maneuver or the evolution, bite for massive damage, then lock in with the claws to rip through with lots of smaller attacks. Evolution-expensive, but a half-elf Wild Caller can afford it once the evolutions start opening up.
The third and perhaps the most true-to-form would be a biped. This one more than any other seems ripe for Combat Reflexes. Reach, bite, and trip evolutions on the bite. Getting up from prone can be done in the grapple to avoid an opportunity attack at the cost of a move action, grapple can be escaped for a standard action, but leaving the 10 or 15' reach will mean risking going right back to square one. And if you teleport away, better hope that it is far enough away not to just charge.
Abilities: Rolled array of 16 16 14 13 9 8. As I like being the face and that is rather skill-heavy, I lean towards dumping two of my physical stats due to my archetypes, with slightly higher Int to make up for few skill points and an inability to grab the Skilled evolution for Aspect like most summoners.
Race: Half-elf. Multitalented is useless for me, so either Arcane Mastery or Fey Thoughts to pick up face skills. If I go with Combat Reflexes, Keen Senses and Adaptability will be replaced with Eye for Opportunity.
Class: Summoner, with DM-approved Synthesist and Wild Caller racial archetype. Taking alternate FCB for +1/4 evo point per level.
Skills: UMD is a must, as is Spellcraft since I am probably going to get Craft Wondrous Items since that includes all of my most important gear. I will have at least a few points in Handle Animal and Knowledge (Nature). I will probably throw a few points into Linguistics later to pick up languages for my other summons or languages that keep popping up in our games. Diplomacy and Intimidate are going to be mainstays, but personality-wise I'm not as concerned about Bluff. Intimidate can probably be neglected more as Intimidating Prowess could turn the 30+ Strength into a boost for the check.
Feats: This is where I have the most difficulty. Craft Wondrous Items could be awesome and another PC is focused on more general crafting so I can get wands through him. My DM has OKed Leadership and my character is interested in bringing his culture back from the brink of extinction so that is a compelling option. Other than that, the feats are rather dependent on what choices I'm going to be making. While my DM did OK natural attacks and such being met by the eidolon form, unless I can produce a rule otherwise I have to meet ability score requirements in caster-form to take a feat. I know that having a temporary bonus to abilities for 24 hours is treated as permanent, but I don't know if that also applies to replaced scores for a synthesist. If it does, I would love to see the rule so I can dump Strength. It feels weird to boost my Strength when I am only using the feat at a time when I meet the requirements.
Quadruped Pouncer: I don't really like this concept as it is so common, but it is very effective. Power Attack is a must as my damage is more distributed; the loss to attack isn't as bad while the bonus damage is on each hit. Much as I don't want to admit it, this build puts most of the onus on evolution points which is provided in spades by half-elf and Wild Caller, so I am more free to spend my feats on Augment Summons, social feats, and similar. It might win out just for that reason.
Biped Chomper: Combat Reflexes to dish out the hurt is the biggest one, then just do what I can to increase damage. Power Attack is one option, Weapon Focus, Ability Focus if I go poison. If I wanted to really dish out the pain and opportunity attacks, Combat Expertise/Dirty Fighting+Improved Trip=>Greater Trip for an extra attack on a trip, then Improved Unarmed Strike+Feral Combat Training=>Vicious Stomp. If I trip you, I can now pile on two attacks.
Constrictor: This one hurts. Final Embrace is required, either to grab/constrict to equal size or to get it after DM-approved Racial Heritage (serpentfolk) on a non-serpentine. If I do go that route, I could also spring for Serpentine Compression, which gives the compression ability so that even an Enlarged Huge eidolon can fit in a PC-sized hallway. And as an added bonus, the caster-form could squeeze through inches-wide cavities without making a check, which is just fun. If you want to maximize damage, Dirty Fighting=>Improve Grapple=>Greater=>Rapid would be nasty, and so would Final Embrace Master if it didn't require 17 Strength.
So how does the Playground think I should play a T-rex? Evisceration by laceration? Lockdown through chow-down? Or constrict 'til their breath quits?