PDA

View Full Version : DM Help The One True Law vs Chaos Alignment Rubric



Grek
2018-06-23, 08:24 PM
1. If an antagonist is wet, sticky or soft, it is Chaotic.
2. If an antagonist is dry, crunchy or hard, it is Lawful.
3. The first two rules invert when dealing with allies.
4. The first three rules invert when dealing with aquatic life.
5. Anything that matches both or neither criteria is Neutral.

Examples:
By One, Demons are Chaotic. Demons are slimey, and the Abyss is an ocean according to Sumerian myth.
By Two, Devils are Lawful. Hell is very hot and has little water; their dry evil makes them Lawful.
By One, Slaad are Chaotic. Unless they defect from Chaos to help the PCs, in which case their slime is Lawful.
By Two, Modrons are Lawful. Unless they defect from Primus, in which case their circuits are full of Chaos.
By Three and One, Archons are Lawful. Celestia has an ocean of holy water after all and they are friends.
By Four and One, Aboleths are Lawful. Underwater, being a slime fish makes you a paragon of Water Law.
By Four and Two, Chuul are Chaotic. Underwater, having a shell makes you the manifestation of Sea Chaos.
By Five, a Flail Snail is Neutral. They have both slimey and crunchy aspects - these cancel out.
By Five, a Human is Neutral by default. We have both crunch and squish, so our actions determine our alignment.
By Five, the Colour Violet is Neutral. Violet is neither hard nor soft, wet nor dry - it is a Neutral concept.
By Two, the Icecream Truck is Chaotic Neutral. It is hard and metallic, but is is a icecream filled friend.

The Lawful Good dragons can all control the weather or swim. The Chaotic Good dragons live in the desert. Most Chaotic Evil dragons have a swim speed and Blues (Lawful Evil) live in the desert. The exceptions - Green and Red - are the most popular colours among dragon riders for their mounts, inverting their alignment as per Rule Three.

As you can see, all Law vs Chaos alignment debates can clearly be solved by this rubric.

Keltest
2018-06-23, 08:28 PM
What about red dragons?

Grek
2018-06-23, 08:33 PM
As I mentioned under dragons, their affinity for becoming mounts has perverted their once proud bloodline away from its Lawful Evil Roots, causing them to become Chaotic Evil despite their complete lack of moisture.


The Lawful Good dragons can all control the weather or swim. The Chaotic Good dragons live in the desert. Most Chaotic Evil dragons have a swim speed and Blues (Lawful Evil) live in the desert. The exceptions - Green and Red - are the most popular colours among dragon riders for their mounts, inverting their alignment as per Rule Three.

Vhaidara
2018-06-24, 08:46 AM
Greens are popular mounts? The ones I generally associate with mounts are Red and Gold.

Pleh
2018-06-24, 08:59 AM
1. If an antagonist is wet, sticky or soft, it is Chaotic.
2. If an antagonist is dry, crunchy or hard, it is Lawful.
3. The first two rules invert when dealing with allies.
4. The first three rules invert when dealing with aquatic life.
5. Anything that matches both or neither criteria is Neutral.

Shark: animals are defined as neutral.

By One: Sharks are chaotic. By Three, Animal Companion variants invert to lawful. By Four, both of these invert.

They are wet, but not hard or crunchy, so they are not neutral.

Yet being animals defines them as neutral.

Have I disproven your theory?

Edit. If shark might qualify as "hardc or "crunchy" I'll dock your theory points for lack of clarity and resubmit the same question with octopus or squid.

Chauncymancer
2018-06-24, 10:04 AM
Aren't black dragons lawful?

MrSandman
2018-06-24, 11:15 AM
Shark: animals are defined as neutral.

By One: Sharks are chaotic. By Three, Animal Companion variants invert to lawful. By Four, both of these invert.

They are wet, but not hard or crunchy, so they are not neutral.

Yet being animals defines them as neutral.

Have I disproven your theory?

Edit. If shark might qualify as "hardc or "crunchy" I'll dock your theory points for lack of clarity and resubmit the same question with octopus or squid.

Well, you could answer that the model only applies to creatures capable of having an alignment other than neutral.

Lord Raziere
2018-06-24, 01:31 PM
By this logic you become lawful when you die of dehydration. and become chaotic when you die of drowning as long as your considered an "antagonist".

therefore any paladin who dies of drowning falls and goes to a chaotic good plane of afterlife, because I consider them my enemies.

therefore I can make paladins fall by just thinking of them as my enemies then killing them in the right way.

therefore all paladins are considered antagonists of evil people, therefore all paladins that drown become Chaotic and fall for dying in water.

Pleh
2018-06-24, 03:46 PM
Well, you could answer that the model only applies to creatures capable of having an alignment other than neutral.


As you can see, all Law vs Chaos alignment debates can clearly be solved by this rubric.

Pick one. If the model must be altered to accomodate my counterpoint, then I've disproven the model as presented since it claims to satisfy all alignment debates.

The fact that it can be amended doesn't alleviate the potential need for amendment. It's like saying D&D is balanced because the DM can moderate it.

Grek
2018-06-24, 05:50 PM
@Pleh: If you've ever petted a shark, you will know that they have rough, sandpaper-like skin. But they are also boneless and non-crunchy. The two invert and cancel out, leaving the creature as Neutral. Squids are well known for having a hard crunchy beak inside a squishy jello-like body. This translates to a coiling core of Oceanic Chaos within an outer layer of Salt Law. This in turn also results in Neutral. Animals in general are Usually Neutral, as almost all of them have both squishy organs and crunchy bones and no overall affinity for one over the other.

@Chauncymancer: Nope, they're Chaotic Evil.

@Lord Raziere: Alignments relate not to individual acts, but a person's overall character. A Paladin does not become Chaotic simply because they are briefly submerged!

Nifft
2018-06-24, 05:57 PM
Breakfast cereal in milk is both wet and crunchy, therefore neutral. This checks out.

However, eating breakfast cereal directly from the box is crunchy without being wet, which by your rules would mean that's lawful.

AND YET, eating cereal directly from the box is the true heart of chaos incarnate!

Clearly you need to re-work your criteria.

Keltest
2018-06-24, 06:17 PM
@Pleh: If you've ever petted a shark, you will know that they have rough, sandpaper-like skin. But they are also boneless and non-crunchy. The two invert and cancel out, leaving the creature as Neutral. Squids are well known for having a hard crunchy beak inside a squishy jello-like body. This translates to a coiling core of Oceanic Chaos within an outer layer of Salt Law. This in turn also results in Neutral. Animals in general are Usually Neutral, as almost all of them have both squishy organs and crunchy bones and no overall affinity for one over the other.

@Chauncymancer: Nope, they're Chaotic Evil.

@Lord Raziere: Alignments relate not to individual acts, but a person's overall character. A Paladin does not become Chaotic simply because they are briefly submerged!

You didn't say anything about being rough, only hard or crunchy.

Pleh
2018-06-24, 09:56 PM
@Pleh: If you've ever petted a shark, you will know that they have rough, sandpaper-like skin. But they are also boneless and non-crunchy. The two invert and cancel out, leaving the creature as Neutral. Squids are well known for having a hard crunchy beak inside a squishy jello-like body. This translates to a coiling core of Oceanic Chaos within an outer layer of Salt Law. This in turn also results in Neutral. Animals in general are Usually Neutral, as almost all of them have both squishy organs and crunchy bones and no overall affinity for one over the other.

Okay, so we're defining wet/soft/crunchy/dry/etc in whatever way is most useful to the theory.

Not a tremendously useful criteria that shifts alignment debates from ethics to what different people perceive to be more or less x y or z.

We'll still be stuck arguing about what qualifies as hard or not.

Also: Gargoyles. Creatures of Earth that for all their description seem to be animated stone. They lack of need for food, air, or water and they are monstrous humanoids, not constructs.

By 1 they are not chaotic.
By 2 they are lawful.
By 3 they are not typically allies
By 4 they have aquatic cousins, but are not natively aquatic themselves.
By 5 there is nothing conflicting nor ambiguous to their nature.

They ought to be lawful by the criteria. The SRD defines them as chaotic evil.

Have I disproven the theory?

Edit: hold on. Was this a joke thread? I apologize if that was the case. Didn't mean to be a party pooper. The setup looked sincere.

Grek
2018-06-24, 10:10 PM
Breakfast cereal in milk is both wet and crunchy, therefore neutral. This checks out.

However, eating breakfast cereal directly from the box is crunchy without being wet, which by your rules would mean that's lawful.

AND YET, eating cereal directly from the box is the true heart of chaos incarnate!

Clearly you need to re-work your criteria.

The breakfast cereal is clearly allied with you.


Edit: hold on. Was this a joke thread? I apologize if that was the case. Didn't mean to be a party pooper. The setup looked sincere.

Me? Make terrible jokes about alignment? Never.

Saintheart
2018-06-24, 11:48 PM
1. If an antagonist is wet, sticky or soft, it is Chaotic.
2. If an antagonist is dry, crunchy or hard, it is Lawful.

So if we succeed with a lot of bludgeoning attacks against rump steak, its alignment changes?

Nifft
2018-06-24, 11:49 PM
So if we succeed with a lot of bludgeoning attacks against rump steak, its alignment changes?

Only if bludgeoning its rump is sufficient to make it hard.

Saintheart
2018-06-24, 11:55 PM
Only if bludgeoning its rump is sufficient to make it hard.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/12ZDIx1Mw1cXVm/giphy.gif

Lord Raziere
2018-06-25, 12:37 AM
@Lord Raziere: Alignments relate not to individual acts, but a person's overall character. A Paladin does not become Chaotic simply because they are briefly submerged!

Well yes, they become Chaotic because they're lungs are filled with water permanently, thus making them more wet than dry, and thus Chaotic. that and a Paladin drinks water everyday. Therefore they are putting Chaos into their body every day. Thus consistently committing a chaotic act every day by doing so, thus consistently pushing their alignment away from the dryness of Lawful. the drowning just sends them over the edge.

thus the only Paladins that don't eventually fall from changing alignment by drinking water, are the ones that die from dehydration two days after they take their oath.