[3.5] Spellwarped sniper questions

[caddmus]

Hey guys,

Been a while since i've posted here, but then its been a while since i've gotten to play anything. So was wanting some ones 2 cents on something,

I'm making a spell warped sniper, or at least plan to, I have ideas for spells ( happily stolen from other threads) still debating if i want to keep it as a human or not race wise. so questions i had.

GM has allowed us to all the 3.5 stuff, short of homebrew

1. ninja or rogue? I haven't played either before so wanted an outside view point. granted i'm only going to take 1 or 2 levels of it then go sorc because I want to have power and be pretty,

2. whats your views on feats, I have a few ideas, but never hurts to ask people that might know more about theory crafting then i do.

3. Gear also brings up questions, given some of the feats i think might help, packing a bow as a backup seems like a good idea, but should i also equipt as i would a sorc normally?

4. mm, had more questions but then i forgot what i wanted to ask...any one play one of these simply because the idea of setting people on fire while doing finger guns was funny? or just me?

aliment isn't an issue for this char, and I have read that a lot of people like unseen seer to toss into these builds, but it just dosn't grab, not sure if i'm going to toss a 3rd class in or not,

[Darrin]

1. ninja or rogue? I haven't played either before so wanted an outside view point. granted i'm only going to take 1 or 2 levels of it then go sorc because I want to have power and be pretty,


Rogue is almost always better than ninja in pretty much every category you can come up with.

If you're just looking for sneak attack, Spellthief is also an possibility, particularly if your DM is open to adjusting how the Master Spellthief feat works.



2. whats your views on feats, I have a few ideas, but never hurts to ask people that might know more about theory crafting then i do.


Feats-wise... Craven is usually a given (Champions of Ruin). I'm partial to Staggering Strike (Complete Adventurer). At higher levels, Undo Resistance (Exemplars of Evil) is good for whittling away SR. If you have the dragonblood subtype, Dragonfire Strike can give you +1d6 sneak attack.

If Dragon Magazine is available, then you can get your filthy little hands on Easy Metamagic. You can pair this up with Practical Metamagic (Races of the Dragon) to negate the level adjustment from Empower Spell, Split Ray, or Fell Drain. That's going to burn up a lot of feats, though... may want to grab a couple flaws.



3. Gear also brings up questions, given some of the feats i think might help, packing a bow as a backup seems like a good idea, but should i also equipt as i would a sorc normally?


Generally I advise an elvencraft longbow, as it threatens adjacent, can accommodate two (or possibly three) wand chambers, and can switch to ranged attacks without wasting an action. However, if you're only proficient with a shortbow, I suppose an elvencraft shortbow might be acceptable.

If you took a level of rogue, they are proficient with hand crossbows, so Hand Crossbow Focus + Crossbow Sniper might be worth considering.

For the rest of your gear... snag some Gloves of the Starry Sky (1100 GP, MIC), and consult with Shax (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?148101-3-x-Shax-s-Indispensible-Haversack-(Equipment-Handbook)).



4. mm, had more questions but then i forgot what i wanted to ask...any one play one of these simply because the idea of setting people on fire while doing finger guns was funny? or just me?

aliment isn't an issue for this char, and I have read that a lot of people like unseen seer to toss into these builds, but it just dosn't grab, not sure if i'm going to toss a 3rd class in or not,

Unseen Seer is fun! A four-level dip has several things you might want: medium BAB, +2d6 sneak attack, Silent Spell as a bonus feat (better than a poke in the eye), and Advanced Learning lets you grab hunter's eye from PHBII. Consider it strongly recommended just for hunter's eye alone.

[Piggy Knowles]

For an excellent take on a Spellthief/Sorcerer/Spellwarp Sniper/Unseen Seer, I'd recommend checking this build out: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471350-Weekly-Optimization-Showcase-The-1-Snoipah-(RadicalTaoist)

To answer your questions...

1. Rogue is better than ninja by far. Sneak attack is way more useful than sudden strike, you'll get better skills, and ninja's Wis-to-AC is going to be less useful than just wearing no-ASF armor. Spellthief is another option over rogue, though, that trades two skill points for access to Master Spellthief.

2. For feats, see the above build for a really solid idea of feats. I'd definitely look at feats like Darkstalker, Practiced Spellcaster/Master Spellthief, Craven and Versatile Spellcasting. If you take some pages from the Snoipah's book, they also suggest Mobile Spellcaster for spell sniping action and Sanctum Spell to cheese higher level spells so that they are spellwarp-able.

3. Darrin covered gear fairly well; I'd go with his recommendations here.

4. Haven't actually played one in a game, but they've always looked fun!

[Climowitz]

This is a build i made sometime ago.

1 Spellthief
2 Sorcerer
3 Sorcerer
4 Sorcerer
5 Sorcerer
6 Unseen Seer
7 Unseen Seer
8 Spellwarp Sniper
9 Unseen Seer
10 Unseen Seer
11 Unseen Seer
12 Unseen Seer
13 Unseen Seer
14 Unseen Seer
15 Unseen Seer
16 Unseen Seer
17 Spellwarp Sniper
18 Spellwarp Sniper
19 Spellwarp Sniper
20 Spellwarp Sniper

Feats:
Able Learner
Master Spellthief
Point Blank Shot
Craven
Practised Spellcaster
Battle Caster
Acidic Splatter
Weapon Focus Ranged Spell
Ranged Spell Specialization
Extend Spell
Persist Spell

Race:
Magic Blooded Human or just Human

[caddmus]

Thanks for the advice guys, with the information i got resently about the type of game, my original idea of the dragon-heart mage short order cook sadly had to be reworked as we will be..well the not good guys? and ive been warned the game might be a bit higher on the lethal scale, So I needed advice hehe,

thanks again, :D

[caddmus]

Ah, Remembers question number 5.

5. what would be an effective familiar for this type of class, normally i just pick something near or fun regardless of function, but do to the possible TPK abbiliys of the game i'm joining, i think going a bit more crunchy might be in order,

[Zaq]

Ah, Remembers question number 5.

5. what would be an effective familiar for this type of class, normally i just pick something near or fun regardless of function, but do to the possible TPK abbiliys of the game i'm joining, i think going a bit more crunchy might be in order,

If you're expecting the familiar to be in danger, either pick a familiar with a really good ability to nope out of combat, or don't take a familiar at all.

Like, familiars are awesome, but if you're routinely in enough danger that you're likely to lose the familiar, don't bother. The XP loss is bad enough, but the loss of the feat or the feature for a year (read: basically forever in the vast majority of campaigns) is obnoxious as hell. Save the build resources.

If you're confident in your ability to keep the familiar alive (do you have enough slots to keep Familiar Pocket up at all the times that it would matter?), my vote is always for something that offers utility. Familiars are nice for skillful casters because they share your skill ranks, after all. So something that can actually engage in skills or directly help you with skills is a good choice.

[Fouredged Sword]

On a sorcerer base I would consider a reserve feat that grants a ranged touch attack rather than a weapon if you have the feat free.

And I do suggest Spell Thief rather than rogue. Trickster Spelltheif will give you spells as well, and loses little on a 1-2 level dip.

Master spelltheif for light armor is solid as it acts as practical spellcaster AND lets you cast in light armor AND lets you continue to steal higher and higher spell levels with sneak attack.

Ask your DM if master spelltheif can increase the maximum level of spells you can hold. The raw is unclear, but not favorable to it, and some DM's allow it anyway.

[Climowitz]

Replace familiar with focus caster or some other acf. That works good with your build.

[Fouredged Sword]

I also think there is a sorcerer ACF that grants an animal companion in place of a familiar. Those are wonderfully disposable in a high lethality game.

[Ruethgar]

As to Darrin’s posting about an Elvencraft Bow, if you can’t get Long but still want three wand chambers there is a punching dagger addon in I believe Complete Scoundrel. If a Lute Bow counts as a Shortbow for Elvencraft, you can also get a dagger added as a stringed instrument, can’t recall where that was off hand, but 4 wand chambers in one hand is kinda neat, would be a really messed up looking lute. It does also grant you +1 levels of Bardic Music(potentially without the class) and allows you to use 2 bardic musics simultaneously.

[caddmus]

There is only one reason any char i make would ever have a lute, I am not a fan of bards, and there is only one alternet build i'm even willing to entertain in that respect, no matter how usful the lute is,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=010aaw1Ajo0

[gorfnab]

This handbook has some info on Spellwarp Sniper and other caster/sneak attack based classes and prestige classes.
Sneak Attacking Spellcasters (http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1240.0)

[caddmus]

Hey guys, got another question, mostly because my first game got canceled were we would work on char's so i have more time to dwell on it till next week, lol


generally right now all I know is, its an evil game or at least non-moral game? so I'll most likely have some sort of neutral char, merc like most likely, closer to tyrant I did this thing because it was efficient not because it was good or bad type of person. also I do enjoy gadgets, soooo, alchemical stuff is cool. ((ok I might be making an old shadowrun char here, lol ))
Also I have been warned the game will be a bit more lethal then I maybe used too, so there's that,

Build wise right now, is spell thief (1) sorc (?) Unseen seer and spell-warp sniper. I do think i'll take master spell thief feat just for more armor, i believe its med armor i can wear with that? also I was thinking of, there was a feat for acid spells? i saw that when i get second level spells i could do a low level acid attack with out using up the spell slot i believe? that would be handy for small encounters, the hold out pistol of spell feats :D


So, gear wise, I'm trying to think of what would be good to get, big ticket magic items are later on, but in the levels before 8ish? what do you guys think? as far as normal must have equipment, and or good stuff for a sorc? granted as its a custom campaign I don't know the environment yet but its fun to see what other people think and view, at the very least it offers inspiration and an understanding to set expectations to, (the downside to haven't be able to play in sooo many years lol) wasn't there a cheap magical multi tool in 3.5?


I know we will have some one sneaky other then me, some one tanky and a couple of casters but not sure what yet.
And all 3.5 books are fair game, just no home brew.

Oh also, I thought i saw a thread about must have equipment around here some place? my search fu is weak, if any one remembers it, could you show me the way,

[Darrin]

Oh also, I thought i saw a thread about must have equipment around here some place? my search fu is weak, if any one remembers it, could you show me the way,

For magic items:

List of Necessary Magic Items (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?187851-3-5-Lists-of-Necessary-Magic-Items).

Bunko's Bargain Basement (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?445114-quot-Bunko-s-Bargain-Basement-Magic-Items-That-Are-a-Steal!-quot-(from-Wizards-forum)).

Fill That Slot! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?149464-Fill-That-Slot!-3-5)

For equipment, Shax's Haversack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?148101-3-x-Shax-s-Indispensible-Haversack-(Equipment-Handbook)) Type I covers the non-magical stuff, and Types II -> IV cover magic items.

[caddmus]

Thanks man, your my hero.

[Climowitz]

Acidic splatter, a reserve feat, from complete aracane i believe.