Demons using Planar Binding

[Madokar]

So I've got this villain for a homebrew campaign I'm writing. She's a Succubus with 12 levels as an Oracle. Her mystery is the Outer Rifts, so she's got Planar Binding as a mystery spell. Here's the thing. As a CE Outer Rifts Oracle as well as being a demon, she can't cast Lawful or Good spells. So... how can she make use of Planar Binding to call demons if she can't cast Magic Circle against Evil to maximize her odds of getting these called demons to cooperate?

A bit of background. This particular succubus has never even been to the Abyss. She was originally a Drow Noble who managed to perform all four Rituals of Fiendish Apotheosis thanks to visions from Haagenti. As such, she doesn't actually know any demons personally. In addition, she's only been a full succubus for the past couple of decades. So she doesn't really have any reputation or respect in the Abyss.

EDIT: Fixed my blunder. Originally posted Magic Circle against GOOD when I meant Magic Circle against EVIL

[the_david]

Magic Circle against Good is an [Evil] spell. She'd need Magic Circle against Evil to use on Demons anyway, which she could learn as she is an Oracle, and Oracles don't have the same restrictions as Clerics.

[Goaty14]

Magic Circle against Good is an [Evil] spell. She'd need Magic Circle against Evil to use on Demons anyway, which she could learn as she is an Oracle, and Oracles don't have the same restrictions as Clerics.

Madokar meant Magic Circle against Evil, since the NPC will be binding demons/devils, MC vs Good will do nothing. The NPC could activate a magic item to the same effect (since she wouldn't be casting the spell, just using an item) or get a hired NPC to do it for her.

[Madokar]

Madokar meant Magic Circle against Evil, since the NPC will be binding demons/devils, MC vs Good will do nothing. The NPC could activate a magic item to the same effect (since she wouldn't be casting the spell, just using an item) or get a hired NPC to do it for her.

A UMD check would be a snap for her. She has a CHA score of 32.

On the other hand, someone on the Paizo boards said that Thaumaturgic Circle isn't alignment based and can be used to trap specific outsider races. Such as demons. I thought that spell was only good for elementals.

[Psyren]

I'm a bit confused. As the_david correctly stated, Oracles don't have the same alignment restrictions on their spellcasting that Clerics do - they function more like Favored Souls in that once they have the power, it's theirs. In other words, your CE succubus oracle can learn Pro:Evil or MC:Evil just fine. What's the problem?

[noob]

Why would you summon demons when you can summon good aligned outsiders and force them to commit atrocities?

[Psyren]

Why would you summon demons when you can summon good aligned outsiders and force them to commit atrocities?

Most angels would probably consider "atrocities" to be "unreasonable."

[Crake]

Why would you summon demons when you can summon good aligned outsiders and force them to commit atrocities?

It's a catch22: Casting magic circle vs good is an [Evil] spell, sure, but casting planar binding to summon a celestial is a [Good] spell. This makes it generally impossible for someone with an extreme alignment to summon anything using planar binding, because you must cast two opposite aligned spells to do so. There is one middle ground however: you can summon creatures without alignment subtypes, such as elementals, or planetouched, or even half fiends/celestials, as it's the creature's subtypes that determine the descriptors of the spell, if the creature has no alignment subtypes, then you have no issue. You may run into a problem however, as you may summon say, an evil elemental when using magic circle vs good. Scratch that, this is pathfinder, magic circle vs good only works on good creatures, not non-evil creatures like it did in 3.5. Makes you wonder how you're supposed to bind elementals in pathfinder....

[Psyren]

Scratch that, this is pathfinder, magic circle vs good only works on good creatures, not non-evil creatures like it did in 3.5. Makes you wonder how you're supposed to bind elementals in pathfinder....

This is incorrect, it still says "non-evil" (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/spells/magicCircleAgainstGood.html#magic-circle-against-good) actually.


It's a catch22: Casting magic circle vs good is an [Evil] spell, sure, but casting planar binding to summon a celestial is a [Good] spell. This makes it generally impossible for someone with an extreme alignment to summon anything using planar binding, because you must cast two opposite aligned spells to do so.

That's only a problem for clerics, who don't normally get Planar Binding anyway. The ones who do get it (via a domain) have a FAQ (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fn#v5748eaic9rce) that essentially says "it's more difficult for them." Everybody else doesn't have that kind of restriction.

[Calthropstu]

This is incorrect, it still says "non-evil" (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/spells/magicCircleAgainstGood.html#magic-circle-against-good) actually.



That's only a problem for clerics, who don't normally get Planar Binding anyway. The ones who do get it (via a domain) have a FAQ (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fn#v5748eaic9rce) that essentially says "it's more difficult for them." Everybody else doesn't have that kind of restriction.

Yup, and there is also law+chaos binding to work with to work around good and evil.

Though I suppose that doesn't help a succubus who also counts as chaotic so no lawful spells.

[Psyren]

Though I suppose that doesn't help a succubus who also counts as chaotic so no lawful spells.

At the risk of repeating myself, she's an Oracle. She can cast aligned spells just fine (all of them.)