Turn Resistance + Commanded Undead

[Yogibear41]

Does a creature's turn resistance count toward the # of hit die a character can control after the rebuking attempt is resolved?

For example, a 10th level cleric rebukes a shadow 3hd +2 turn resistance= effective HD of 5 for rebuking. Because 5 HD is half of 10 it can be successfully commanded by the cleric.

After the fact the cleric does the same thing two more times for a total of 3 shadows. The cleric can control a maximum of 10hd worth of creatures, can he control all three 3hd creatures or can he only command two because they are 3hd but with a +2 turn resistance still applying?

[DrMotives]

The turn resistance shouldn't count as HD for the control undead cap. It's more of a speed bump to get them in the first place, but once controlled they count as their actual HD.

[Silva Stormrage]

The turn resistance shouldn't count as HD for the control undead cap. It's more of a speed bump to get them in the first place, but once controlled they count as their actual HD.

Thats one way to resolve it but is not clear RAW.

Turn resistance states pretty much in it's entirety: "When resolving a turn, rebuke, command, or bolster attempt, added the appropriate bonus to the creature’s Hit Dice total."

"Resolving" a command attempt almost certainly includes how many HD are left in the pool for command undead.

[Venger]

Does a creature's turn resistance count toward the # of hit die a character can control after the rebuking attempt is resolved?
No.


After the fact the cleric does the same thing two more times for a total of 3 shadows. The cleric can control a maximum of 10hd worth of creatures, can he control all three 3hd creatures

This is correct

[Silva Stormrage]

No.



This is correct

Could I have a source on that? I always ruled that calculating how many HD the undead took up in the command undead HD pool was part of the command attempt and thus would check turn resistance.

I much prefer your version but I just want to hear the argument for that.

[Venger]

Could I have a source on that? I always ruled that calculating how many HD the undead took up in the command undead HD pool was part of the command attempt and thus would check turn resistance.

I much prefer your version but I just want to hear the argument for that.

sure (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#turnOrRebukeUndead) I'm not sure why you'd rule that way, but resolution is done when you make the turning check. Yogibear41's example does a good job detailing how it works. Turn resistance only works as a defense when it comes to being affected. You do not take it into account when it comes to how much space the undead takes in your control pool. You only count actual hit dice. There's no argument required, just simple raw.

[Nifft]

sure (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#turnOrRebukeUndead) I'm not sure why you'd rule that way, but resolution is done when you make the turning check. Yogibear41's example does a good job detailing how it works. Turn resistance only works as a defense when it comes to being affected. You do not take it into account when it comes to how much space the undead takes in your control pool. You only count actual hit dice. There's no argument required, just simple raw.

I think a counter-argument might be something like...


Being controlled by a Rebuke means being affected, so turn resistance counts against that by eating up more of your pool.

That's not how I rule it -- my ruling agrees with your own -- but that's the sort of argument which might be made against our rulings.

[Silva Stormrage]

sure (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#turnOrRebukeUndead) I'm not sure why you'd rule that way, but resolution is done when you make the turning check. Yogibear41's example does a good job detailing how it works. Turn resistance only works as a defense when it comes to being affected. You do not take it into account when it comes to how much space the undead takes in your control pool. You only count actual hit dice. There's no argument required, just simple raw.

Awesome glad to here it. It's just how I first read it and I didn't read it carefully afterwords I guess.

[Kelb_Panthera]

sure (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#turnOrRebukeUndead) I'm not sure why you'd rule that way, but resolution is done when you make the turning check. Yogibear41's example does a good job detailing how it works. Turn resistance only works as a defense when it comes to being affected. You do not take it into account when it comes to how much space the undead takes in your control pool. You only count actual hit dice. There's no argument required, just simple raw.


Awesome glad to here it. It's just how I first read it and I didn't read it carefully afterwords I guess.

Maybe I'm being dense here but I don't see how the linked page actually resolves the OPs question. It makes no mention of turn resistance at all and the turn resistance entry in the special abilities page makes no mention of the control cap. The idea that the commanded status ignores turn-resistance after the turning damage is resolved has not been substantiated here.