Weirdly Specific Greensinger Build Optimization Help

[Afgncaap5]

Okay, so... I'm trying to figure out a way to pull off a very particular effect 1) before level 14, and 2) without using Spheres of Power. Much as I love Spheres of Power, I wanna be able to do this even if the GM won't allow it (and if a GM does allow it, then hey, I'll just do it at level 1 and let it get more powerful over time.)

Using only 3.5 material and without using a synonym or variant of the word "refluff", I want to create an effect akin to a bard/druid/mystic theurge with the Imbued Summoning metamagic feat, casting an Imbued Summoning variation of Summon Nature's Ally III to create a Satyr with Heroism pre-cast upon it.

Yes, it's not the most powerful or greatest thing that this feat can be used for. But the image is fun for me. Couldn't I just use Wizard with ranks in Perform instead of using a Bard? Sure! But then the challenge wouldn't be there.

Now that we don't have the "good" or "sensible" ways of doing this on the table... any thoughts?

[Troacctid]

Druid 5/Green Whisperer 5 casts as a Druid 10/Bard 5, so not only can you summon a satyr with heroism, you can even use SNA IV instead of III and summon 1d3 of them.

[Afgncaap5]

Druid 5/Green Whisperer 5 casts as a Druid 10/Bard 5, so not only can you summon a satyr with heroism, you can even use SNA IV instead of III and summon 1d3 of them.

Sounds just about perfect! Thanks.

[Zaq]

Is being a Bard actually important to you? Or are you mostly interested in getting Heroism on a Druid to cast via Imbued Summoning? Because Heroism is on the Pride domain as a 3rd level spell, so you can just take a quick dip in Contemplative and get it on your Druid without losing CL to Bard.

Alternatively, Savage Bard gets SNA instead of SM, so you can single-class a Savage Bard and get what you're looking for.

If you have your heart set on being both a Bard and a Druid, just making a Mystic Theurge is pretty straightforward: just take enough of each class to meet the prereqs, plus or minus whatever early entry tricks you're comfortable using. You seem to be already pretty aware that doing so is a bit suboptimal (given that Bard qualifies late and also given that both Bard and Druid have meaningful class features that MT doesn't do anything to advance), but it's also relatively simple.

[Afgncaap5]

Is being a Bard actually important to you? Or are you mostly interested in getting Heroism on a Druid to cast via Imbued Summoning? Because Heroism is on the Pride domain as a 3rd level spell, so you can just take a quick dip in Contemplative and get it on your Druid without losing CL to Bard.

It's less to do with being a bard and more to do with a class that thematically links singing with casting without having to refluff anything. That's why Green Whisperer works so well, actually; it's like Mystic Theurge but specifically for Druid and Bard without requiring any prior experience as a Bard.

Effectively, I want a character in the Greensingers to be able to start singing the story of Redthorn the Trickster, greatest of the Satyrs of Falaria in Thelanis, and then having Redthorn appear, pre-buffed, to start wailing on people.


Alternatively, Savage Bard gets SNA instead of SM, so you can single-class a Savage Bard and get what you're looking for.

It's less that particular set of songs, and more the option to use bard and druid spells together on the fly with Imbued Summons. I was looking at the feat and noted that the wording would allow spells that don't normally go together to go together quite well. At the end of the day that wound up being less important to the concept, but it's still there at the core.


If you have your heart set on being both a Bard and a Druid, just making a Mystic Theurge is pretty straightforward: just take enough of each class to meet the prereqs, plus or minus whatever early entry tricks you're comfortable using. You seem to be already pretty aware that doing so is a bit suboptimal (given that Bard qualifies late and also given that both Bard and Druid have meaningful class features that MT doesn't do anything to advance), but it's also relatively simple.

Not really essential per se but it's nice. Mystic Theurge is what I used to get the level 14 part, and I don't know the early entry tricks very well. It looks like Green Whisperer could do it pretty easily with just about any combination I wanted of Bard and Druid as long as I've got at least a level in each. (Heck, the class could be entered with 5 levels of Expert if I wanted, which is actually really good for NPCs.) So, unless there's a Mystic Theurge early entry trick that'd work sooner than level 6, I think Green Whisperer really is the way to go.

[Nifft]

Druid 5/Green Whisperer 5 casts as a Druid 10/Bard 5, so not only can you summon a satyr with heroism, you can even use SNA IV instead of III and summon 1d3 of them.

This, except I'd suggest Bard 1 / Druid 4 / Greensinger 5 instead, for the extra skill points at level 1 -- and so the DM can't argue that you don't advance what you don't already have.

Then, get Evasion via Shape Soulmeld (impulse boots) and Open Least Chakra (feet), and enter Fochlucan Lyrist at level 11 to continue advancing both Druid and Bard casting.

[Troacctid]

Also worth noting that Druids can qualify for Heartfire Fanner to get full bardic music progression with zero Bard levels.