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Nota Biene
2007-09-09, 12:24 AM
I am in love with wizards. It took me a long time to realize how broken they were in DnD 3.5, and I always felt that the wizard archetype is best represented if the pretension of class balance is abdandoned and wizards are allowed to outshine those who must obey the laws of physics. Ars Magica naturally has some appeal, but I cannot seem to find the game, and it is doesn't actually have a big fanbase as near as I can tell. I was just wondering if anyone has any experience with it, if so, what did they think, and is it very difficult to pick up? I read through the fourth edition free rules and it seems cool- the magic system especially- but highly complicated. Also, does anyone have tips on finding Ars games?

Aquillion
2007-09-09, 12:55 AM
I am in love with wizards. It took me a long time to realize how broken they were in DnD 3.5, and I always felt that the wizard archetype is best represented if the pretension of class balance is abdandoned and wizards are allowed to outshine those who must obey the laws of physics. Ars Magica naturally has some appeal, but I cannot seem to find the game, and it is doesn't actually have a big fanbase as near as I can tell. I was just wondering if anyone has any experience with it, if so, what did they think, and is it very difficult to pick up? I read through the fourth edition free rules and it seems cool- the magic system especially- but highly complicated. Also, does anyone have tips on finding Ars games?
The ironic thing is that while Ars Magica wizards are overwhelmingly powerful (a starting wizard can easily begin with a spell capable of killing an uninjured target instantly if it hits or they fail the related check), they're still, in some ways, less powerful than D&D wizards.

Think about it: They have to worry about social stigmas, the rules of the Order, they take a hefty penalty to social interactions, and, most importantly of all, aside from a few spells that they choose to master (which takes points they could have spent elsewhere) they have to worry about the omnipresent chance of botches, the constant risk of exhausting themselves, and the accumulation of twilight points. All these things encourage them to avoid using magic in situations where 'normal' actions could obtain the same result with less fighting. D&D has its limited spell slots, but it's too easy for players to end up in situations where they have slots to burn... In Ars Magica, even if you're safe at home with places to rest in easy reach, wizards are more likely to avoid pushing non-spellcasters out of the picture completely.

MrNexx
2007-09-09, 01:02 AM
I've had little enough luck finding physical games. PBEM games are actually pretty easy to find... I'm technically involved in two that I'm currently being a bad player in.

The system isn't that different from d20 in many ways, only with different dice. A simple die roll is d10+modifiers. A quality die roll is d10 + modifiers, but a 1 means you double whatever comes up on the next throw of the die... or quadruple it, if you throw another one... or octuple it, if you throw third one, and so on. A Stress die is like a quality die, except a 0 is a botch on that first die roll (after which it's a ten).

The real trick is learning the formulae, most of which are on character sheets.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-09-09, 01:50 PM
You can find a lot of used Ars Magica material at a good price on Amazon.

Aquillion
2007-09-09, 02:34 PM
The system isn't that different from d20 in many ways, only with different dice. A simple die roll is d10+modifiers. A quality die roll is d10 + modifiers, but a 1 means you double whatever comes up on the next throw of the die... or quadruple it, if you throw another one... or octuple it, if you throw third one, and so on. A Stress die is like a quality die, except a 0 is a botch on that first die roll (after which it's a ten).There's a reason for that. Wasn't one of the people who designed Ars Magica also one of the ones who made 3rd edition? I remember noticing, as soon as I saw third edition, that the new way of handling attribute bonuses basically turned them into Ars Magica's stats, with -3 to +3 for 'normal' values. The commitment to one die for most things was similar, too. Of course, since D&D uses D20 instead of D10, the stat and skill bonuses mean less... oh well.

MrNexx
2007-09-09, 02:42 PM
Jonathan Tweet was involved in the early stages of both games, though he's no longer with Ars Magica.

LongVin
2007-09-09, 05:03 PM
Ars Magica is a great game but character creation takes forever. Because you not only play just a mage you also usually play his non-magi companions as well.

Stephen_E
2007-09-09, 09:08 PM
I played a Ars Magica campaign once for a few sessions, but unfortunately the DM wandered off to other things. For the few sessions I palyed I had a great deal of fun.

I'd never played it before and had limited access to the books but had no problem playing or making a character with the help of a DM and player who did know the system. I did get the impression that it is one of those systems that is best described as "learn by finding someone who knows the system and have them teach you."

Stephen

Tyrrell
2007-09-25, 04:24 PM
Ars is clearly the greatest game ever in the history of human kind :smallyuk: It is a tragedy of epic proportions that you haven't already been playing for years.

Ars is in print and any store that can manage to order 20-sided dice should be able to get Ars Magica books from the same distributor. (Otherwise I suppose that there is always Amazon)

The Atlas games website is here:
http://www.atlas-games.com/
Follow the link on the right side of the page that says "official forums".

Project Redcap, sort of an Ars Magica Index for the web is here: http://redcap.org/

Ars Magica is going at least as strong now as it ever did. The fifth edition of the game is significantly slicker and better play tested than any previous edition. The source books stand for the most part head and shoulders above what was published by White Wolf, WotC, Lion Rampant and the older Atlas Games material (there were a few good books for previous editions but the quality was nowhere near as consistent). John Nephew tells us that the line is selling just as well now as it did seven or eight years ago so we have some hope that we'll continue to see good material put out.

There's never been a better time to jump in. An electronic Ars Magazine just sent out its first issue yesterday
http://www.subrosamagazine.org/

There's a new tribunal book at the printers and in my opinion it is the best Ars Magica campaign setting that has seen print to date (or at least the copy I play tested was).

Fifth edition is not particularly old (having been published three years ago) but it already is better supported than any of the previous editions of the game some of which were around considerably longer.

Theofficial forums are not as busy as D&D but ther're far fro dead and if you want more there is always the Berkley Ars Magica mailing list (now going on 14 years).

If you are just tentitively fiddling with the free fourth edition of the game and haven't decided to dive into fifth edition as of yet you should take a moment and look at the previous Ars fanzine, the sadly departed Hermes portal which has 15 issues of 4th edition ars material downloadable for free.
http://perso.orange.fr/styren/hermesportal/hermes.htm

Raum
2007-09-25, 05:53 PM
Ars Magica naturally has some appeal, but I cannot seem to find the game, and it is doesn't actually have a big fanbase as near as I can tell. Ars Magica can be found here (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/103-9534180-1411050?initialSearch=1&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=ars+magica&x=0&y=0) if you can't find it in your LGS. Finding players may be a bit more difficult. :-/


I was just wondering if anyone has any experience with it, if so, what did they think, and is it very difficult to pick up? I read through the fourth edition free rules and it seems cool- the magic system especially- but highly complicated. Also, does anyone have tips on finding Ars games?It's a good game, particularly if you like historical settings. Ars Magica does one of the best jobs of setting description in the industry, of course they do have a lot of historical source material to draw from. I highly recommend the setting books to anyone attempting to play in a mythic / semi-historical Europe. One of the most useful is the Medieval Handbook. The magic system isn't overly complex once you get used to it, but it can be time consuming if you create a lot of spells on the fly instead of casting from previously researched formulae.

Tyrrell
2007-09-25, 06:09 PM
Ars Magica can be found here (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/103-9534180-1411050?initialSearch=1&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=ars+magica&x=0&y=0) if you can't find it in your LGS. Finding players may be a bit more difficult. :-/


Sweet!! I just followed your link and purchased a first edition festival of the damned for $3 plus shipping. Now my collection is complete (except for a few old issues of redcap)

goat
2007-09-25, 06:10 PM
Ars Magica...

Is that the game where you can create cute little kittens that explode gratuitously whenever someone picks them up?

jamroar
2007-09-25, 07:07 PM
Ars Magica...

Is that the game where you can create cute little kittens that explode gratuitously whenever someone picks them up?

I rather think of it as Harry Potter: Dark Ages ... :smallbiggrin:

(Yes, I know the system far predates the HP series).

Riffington
2007-09-25, 07:15 PM
I really like it. You have to have above-average players to even bother. But if you do, it's very fun and interesting.

Tyrrell
2007-09-25, 08:28 PM
Is that the game where you can create cute little kittens that explode gratuitously whenever someone picks them up?
I'm sure that there is a joke in there that I am not getting.

The game certainly isn't about exploding kittens (that's shadowrun) but the magic system is certainly up to the task if it is your character's goal.

Creating kittens is straight forward

Making explosions is also straight forward

Getting the kittens to explode when and only when they are picked up is the tricky part. (The great frequency that statements such as "getting the kittens to explode when and only when they are picked up is the tricky part" pop up in character is to me a selling point for the game.) I can think of five ways to accomplish the kitten explosion timing in the main magic system. Two of these methods can be pulled of by any standard mage providing that he has sufficient knowledge of his magical arts, the other three require the correct virtues (I guess the closest D&D equivalent to a virtue would be a feat but the ideas don't really map on one another completely).