Need some plot advice on beliefs shaping reality

[hydraphantom]

I need some plot advice.

In my world settings, numbers of human kingdoms had been continuously raiding on isolated elven settlements for slaves. For generations.

The elven nations were too aloof or not strong enough to stop the elven slave raiding outside of their borders.

Then come the three evil overlords and their legions, one of them was so disgusted by such practice, he annihilated those kingdoms and freed most of the elven slaves.

Now, the evil overlords have been repelled by the coalitions of races. They were forced to retreat to their realms. But his influence still remains, quite a numbers of elven settlements abandoned their original elven gods and begin to worship the overlords.

In my settings, the gods were a manifestation of mortal belief, as long as there are enough worshippers, you can literally create a god.

Now that a lot of elves worship the overlords, how would such belief affect the overlord himself?

The PCs would be a group of mercenaries hired by one of the rebuilt kingdoms to "reacquire" those elves. Or, a group of adventurers whose hometown has been devastated by the overlord and now full of hatred. I haven't decided yet, they were not into that part yet.

Just a clarification, the three overlords could never be destroyed, they are hardwired to this world.

[DeTess]

I can see two general ways for you to go about this (I'm working under the assumption here that there are enough worshippers to actually create a god here)

1. The Elves worship the evil overlord, causing him to ascend to godhood. he gets all the associated perks, but he's now also affected by te whims of his worshippers: If they all decide that he's a Chaotic good hero of the oppressed and liberator of slaves, that's what he'll become.

2. The new god is a separate entity from the evil overlord. As long as the god and the evil overlord are very similar, the overlord will likely derive some power from it, similar to a favored cleric or divine avatar. Initially it might even be hard to tell the god and overlord apart. However, as the belief in the god evolves and diverges from who the evil voerlord is, he'll start to lose access to the power of the god that was based on him as the god becomes its own thing.

[hydraphantom]

I can see two general ways for you to go about this (I'm working under the assumption here that there are enough worshippers to actually create a god here)

1. The Elves worship the evil overlord, causing him to ascend to godhood. he gets all the associated perks, but he's now also affected by te whims of his worshippers: If they all decide that he's a Chaotic good hero of the oppressed and liberator of slaves, that's what he'll become.

2. The new god is a separate entity from the evil overlord. As long as the god and the evil overlord are very similar, the overlord will likely derive some power from it, similar to a favored cleric or divine avatar. Initially it might even be hard to tell the god and overlord apart. However, as the belief in the god evolves and diverges from who the evil voerlord is, he'll start to lose access to the power of the god that was based on him as the god becomes its own thing.

Thanks for the reply.

That......is a really interesting perspective, the separate god entity that diverges from the actual overlord, I have never thought of that.

[Rabidmuskrat]

Another way you can approach this is by skipping the actual god part itself. The elves are not enough to actually create a god (it requires both worship and a general acceptance of "yes this is a god, even if I dont worship him"). The belief does empower him, however, essentially granting free divine access to that same raw power-stuff that makes up gods. For example, in Dnd I would simply have it function as free cleric levels.

You can then add as much or as little of a feedback effect as you desire, with the elves' beliefs shaping/altering his own world view as much or as little as fits the plot.

[Calthropstu]

Wasn't this the plot of a book series a while back? Humans land on a planet and get stuck because something manifests their fears and causes technology to go haywire?

[hydraphantom]

Wasn't this the plot of a book series a while back? Humans land on a planet and get stuck because something manifests their fears and causes technology to go haywire?

What's the book's name? I've never read it.

[Calthropstu]

What's the book's name? I've never read it.

It's basically a sword and sorcery novel following the adventures of a guy who essentially made a deal with the "devil" to become immortal and the odd alliance he makes with a guy who tries to kill him.
Can't remember the book names for the life of me. Picked it up out of the library 15 years ago. The name douglas comes to mind as the author but don't know if it's accurate.

But yeah, was a great read. "Magic" works by manipulating the things that react and bring to life what you believe.

When multitudes of people believe something, it becomes particularly powerful.

[DeTess]

It's basically a sword and sorcery novel following the adventures of a guy who essentially made a deal with the "devil" to become immortal and the odd alliance he makes with a guy who tries to kill him.
Can't remember the book names for the life of me. Picked it up out of the library 15 years ago. The name douglas comes to mind as the author but don't know if it's accurate.

But yeah, was a great read. "Magic" works by manipulating the things that react and bring to life what you believe.

When multitudes of people believe something, it becomes particularly powerful.

I remember reading this one years ago! Can't remember the name either though...

Edit: I did some digging, and I'm fairly certain it's the Coldfire Trilogy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coldfire_Trilogy).

[WindStruck]

It would seem the only way to truly rid yourselves of those overlords is to stop trying to make elves your slaves and make reparations.

[Calthropstu]

I remember reading this one years ago! Can't remember the name either though...

Edit: I did some digging, and I'm fairly certain it's the Coldfire Trilogy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coldfire_Trilogy).

That was it. I only had to look at the first book title. I remember the image of blue lightning coming from a sword.

I kinda want to reread it again now.

[hydraphantom]

That was it. I only had to look at the first book title. I remember the image of blue lightning coming from a sword.

I kinda want to reread it again now.

Holy**** my younger brother got the exact book!

[Calthropstu]

Holy**** my younger brother got the exact book!

I reccomend it. Given the circumstance it could inspire some ideas. Could make for some interesting deities seeing as how everyone has different ideas concerning them.

[Jay R]

I'm interested in some of the effects of belief elsewhere in the world.

1. If you tell your children that there are bogeymen, or tooth fairies, or Easter bunnies, then there will be.

2. Rumors can become true. If enough people believe that the prime minister is evil, then he will become so, even if he wasn't before (the "Richelieu effect").

3. If enough people think that the toothless old woman who lives alone on the edge of town is a witch who will curse them, then ....

[Calthropstu]

I'm interested in some of the effects of belief elsewhere in the world.

1. If you tell your children that there are bogeymen, or tooth fairies, or Easter bunnies, then there will be.

2. Rumors can become true. If enough people believe that the prime minister is evil, then he will become so, even if he wasn't before (the "Richelieu effect").

3. If enough people think that the toothless old woman who lives alone on the edge of town is a witch who will curse them, then ....

Didn't work like that.
Bogeymen, sure; but it couldn't directly alter people physically.

It's more along the line of perception. I see the wizard casting fireball, and because I am afraid a fireball will appear, one does.

[Lunali]

If enough people believe alcohol is a poison, purify food and drink turns wine into water. (or grape juice, but water sounds better)

[TheStranger]

I can see two general ways for you to go about this (I'm working under the assumption here that there are enough worshippers to actually create a god here)

1. The Elves worship the evil overlord, causing him to ascend to godhood. he gets all the associated perks, but he's now also affected by te whims of his worshippers: If they all decide that he's a Chaotic good hero of the oppressed and liberator of slaves, that's what he'll become.

2. The new god is a separate entity from the evil overlord. As long as the god and the evil overlord are very similar, the overlord will likely derive some power from it, similar to a favored cleric or divine avatar. Initially it might even be hard to tell the god and overlord apart. However, as the belief in the god evolves and diverges from who the evil voerlord is, he'll start to lose access to the power of the god that was based on him as the god becomes its own thing.

Those seem like the two general options to me. Although there's probably a 1.5, where the belief creates a deity that is a separate (and extraplanar) entity, but also inextricably linked to the overlord - the overlord is functionally his own avatar. As such, he's shaped by belief. Or he's smart enough to see where his power comes from, and intentionally emulates the deified version of himself.

Another plot hook idea would be for the PCs to be hired by the church of one of the "true elven gods" to win their worshipers back from this false god. The overlord doesn't really have the elves' interests at heart like the "real" gods do, he's an evil man who did one good thing, but worshiping him is bound to end badly for the elves.

As an aside, why exactly is the overlord evil? In general, being offended by slavery and overthrowing the slavers aren't the signs of an evil overlord. Sounds more like the sort of thing most PCs would do.

[Avigor]

One word, one thought, one moment. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmmMBWecIo8)

[hydraphantom]

Those seem like the two general options to me. Although there's probably a 1.5, where the belief creates a deity that is a separate (and extraplanar) entity, but also inextricably linked to the overlord - the overlord is functionally his own avatar. As such, he's shaped by belief. Or he's smart enough to see where his power comes from, and intentionally emulates the deified version of himself.

Another plot hook idea would be for the PCs to be hired by the church of one of the "true elven gods" to win their worshipers back from this false god. The overlord doesn't really have the elves' interests at heart like the "real" gods do, he's an evil man who did one good thing, but worshiping him is bound to end badly for the elves.

As an aside, why exactly is the overlord evil? In general, being offended by slavery and overthrowing the slavers aren't the signs of an evil overlord. Sounds more like the sort of thing most PCs would do.

That's some great ideas! Thanks for the reply.

About why the three overlords are evil... It's kinda spoiler-ish but here goes:

The three overlords are hardwired to this world, they cannot be truly destroyed, as long as the world itself exist, they too will continue to exist.

As a consequence, they are also hardcoded to be tagged as "evil", while they could be extremely liberal in defining "evil," they are unable to do good. Any good deed they've done must be compensated with an even bigger atrocity, one of the three overlords freed millions of elven slaves, so he must compensate with a genocide of tens of millions of humans. If he/she failed to live up to the "evil overlord" title, the world itself will wipe him/her of existence and replace with an exact copy of him/her that would gladly do evil. The three overlords have initially enjoyed been evil, but figured this out while beating entire world's civilizations to pulp, that's the reason they willingly retreat back to their realm.

The three overlords are, by nature, evil. While they do have a functional conscience, they physically couldn't stop being evil, although they could be VERY liberal on how to apply "evil".

This works both ways, if someone has been tagged as "hero", he would have a hard deadline on how evil he sinks down, cross that point, he will be erased by the world itself from existence.

[Jay R]

Didn't work like that.
Bogeymen, sure; but it couldn't directly alter people physically.

It's more along the line of perception. I see the wizard casting fireball, and because I am afraid a fireball will appear, one does.

How about this? Old people often mumble. A woman with an herb garden comes out to get herbs for dinner, and looks at the person walking by. I see the old woman looking at me, holding a bit of herbs and mumbling, and because I am afraid a curse will appear, one does.

Or the old priest I don't recognize is casting cure light wounds, and because I am afraid a fireball will appear, one does.

[Calthropstu]

How about this? Old people often mumble. A woman with an herb garden comes out to get herbs for dinner, and looks at the person walking by. I see the old woman looking at me, holding a bit of herbs and mumbling, and because I am afraid a curse will appear, one does.

Or the old priest I don't recognize is casting cure light wounds, and because I am afraid a fireball will appear, one does.

Not too far off actually, though when a caster casts, it is his will that shapes the effects. However, an untrained innate caster could very well have that happen.