Casting in Armor

[Chalkarts]

I built a Dwarven Warlock with heavy armor and a shield.
I remember 3.5 having casting in armor penalties but I couldn’t find that in 5e. Did they do away with that or am I just missing it?

[DanyBallon]

I built a Dwarven Warlock with heavy armor and a shield.
I remember 3.5 having casting in armor penalties but I couldn’t find that in 5e. Did they do away with that or am I just missing it?

They did remove the armor penalty. Now you can cast in any armor you're proficient with! Being proficient is the keyword here :smallwink:

[Unoriginal]

What DanyBallon said is true.

Meaning your Warlock would be unable to cast spells in heavy armor and shield.

If they are an Hexblade Warlock, they can use a shield, though, and one of the Dwarf subraces give proficiency with medium armor.

Otherwise there is feats and multiclass to get the proficiency.

[Pharaon]

Casting in Armor
Because of the mental focus and precise gestures required for spellcasting, you must be proficient with the armor you are wearing to cast a spell. You are otherwise too distracted and physically hampered by your armor for spellcasting.

Hexblades get medium armor proficiency at first level as well.

[Chalkarts]

He’s a Dwarf so he gets M.Armor proficiency,
I’m playing under the assumption of a 1st level feat, with which I take heavy armor proficiency.
He uses a shield but no weapon so he has a free hand for casting and just spams combat cantrips.
He’s a dwarven turret.

[JackPhoenix]

He’s a Dwarf so he gets M.Armor proficiency,
I’m playing under the assumption of a 1st level feat, with which I take heavy armor proficiency.
He uses a shield but no weapon so he has a free hand for casting and just spams combat cantrips.
He’s a dwarven turret.

Dwarves are proficient with medium armor, but not with shields. Neither Heavily Armored, nor (non-Hexblade) warlock grant shield proficiency.

[WereRabbitz]

Dwarves are proficient with medium armor, but not with shields. Neither Heavily Armored, nor (non-Hexblade) warlock grant shield proficiency.

Hexblade + Human Var = Heavy Armor Castor (aka cleric)

[LudicSavant]

There are no longer any penalties for casting in armor in which you are proficient.

[Chalkarts]

Dwarves are proficient with medium armor, but not with shields. Neither Heavily Armored, nor (non-Hexblade) warlock grant shield proficiency.

I didn’t realize shield required a proficiency, that’s a hitch.

[Sorlock Master]

I built a Dwarven Warlock with heavy armor and a shield.
I remember 3.5 having casting in armor penalties but I couldn’t find that in 5e. Did they do away with that or am I just missing it?

Yes you can cast in armor, but just like everything it is at the DMs discretion. Also keep in mind the components for casting spells.

You need a free hand to cast spells with Somatic components, and muffled speech prevents Verbal components from being used.

As a point of reference I had a player that wanted something similar.

He went Fighter first level, okay that's fine. Then he took 2 levels in Warlock. Again that's fine Bladelock is cool. Then he started taking levels in Wizard...and never stopped. By level 11 he was a nightmare to deal with.

Here is what he would do, fight would break out, cast Armor of Agathas at level 5 or 6, as soon as he gets attacked he casts shield giving him AC of 23 for the round and a ward HP of 12-14 HP plus temp HP of 25 which did Cold damage of 25 each time he was hit. He topped out at AC 31, (+3 plate and +3 Shield, plus shield spell), for reference an Ancient Red Dragon had a 30% chance to hit him, when it did hit him it would take 25 points of damage.

From then on I decided no heavy armor and casting spells.

[Aeros1]

I didn’t realize shield required a proficiency, that’s a hitch.

Hexblade patron warlocks have shield proficiency

[Naanomi]

Heavy armor is only one AC above Medium or Light for most characters who care about AC; fun if you get it but hardly necessary (and hardly overpowered)

[sithlordnergal]

Things to keep in mind about casting when wearing armor, and wearing armor in general:

1) You can cast a spell while wearing armor, provided you are proficient in it

2) You do not need to meet the strength requirements to wear Heavy Armor. If you do not meet the requirements, your speed is lowered by 10ft.

3) If you are carrying too much for your strength score, your speed is lowered again.

Meaning yes, it is 100% possible to play a Fighter/Wizard with 8 strength who has 21 AC through Defense Fighting Style, Plate Armor, and a Shield. The only down side is that you'll move 10 feet per round as you struggle under the weight of it all X3 I call it the Turtle Wizard.

[Naanomi]

2) You do not need to meet the strength requirements to wear Heavy Armor. If you do not meet the requirements, your speed is lowered by 10ft.
Unless you are a dwarf


The only down side is that you'll move 10 feet per round as you struggle under the weight of it all X3 I call it the Turtle Wizard.
That is what the mount... and ritual casted Phantom Steed... is for

[Wryte]

He topped out at AC 31, (+3 plate and +3 Shield, plus shield spell), for reference an Ancient Red Dragon had a 30% chance to hit him, when it did hit him it would take 25 points of damage.

From then on I decided no heavy armor and casting spells.

That sounds like your own fault for giving him two +3 AC items.

[Sorlock Master]

That sounds like your own fault for giving him two +3 AC items.

No that wasn't until 6 or 7 sessions after he hit 20.

[sithlordnergal]

No that wasn't until 6 or 7 sessions after he hit 20.

Question...why were you wasting time making melee attacks against such a heavily armored wizard when your dragon has a breath attack? I mean sure, you have to recharge it, but the recharge is pretty easy to roll if I am remembering correctly. What kind of dragon were they fighting? Cause last dragon I fought did a crap ton with their breath alone.

[Chalkarts]

Things to keep in mind about casting when wearing armor, and wearing armor in general:

Meaning yes, it is 100% possible to play a Fighter/Wizard with 8 strength who has 21 AC through Defense Fighting Style, Plate Armor, and a Shield. The only down side is that you'll move 10 feet per round as you struggle under the weight of it all X3 I call it the Turtle Wizard.

Could you float around on a tensers disc or something?

[JackPhoenix]

Things to keep in mind about casting when wearing armor, and wearing armor in general:

1) You can cast a spell while wearing armor, provided you are proficient in it

2) You do not need to meet the strength requirements to wear Heavy Armor. If you do not meet the requirements, your speed is lowered by 10ft.

3) If you are carrying too much for your strength score, your speed is lowered again.

Meaning yes, it is 100% possible to play a Fighter/Wizard with 8 strength who has 21 AC through Defense Fighting Style, Plate Armor, and a Shield. The only down side is that you'll move 10 feet per round as you struggle under the weight of it all X3 I call it the Turtle Wizard.

Plate Armor is 65 lb, shield is 6 lb. Even with Str 8, you'll have 49 lb of encumberance left for other stuff. Your speed will be 20', not 10'.

[JellyPooga]

Things to keep in mind about casting when wearing armor, and wearing armor in general:

1) You can cast a spell while wearing armor, provided you are proficient in it

2) You do not need to meet the strength requirements to wear Heavy Armor. If you do not meet the requirements, your speed is lowered by 10ft.

3) If you are carrying too much for your strength score, your speed is lowered again.

Meaning yes, it is 100% possible to play a Fighter/Wizard with 8 strength who has 21 AC through Defense Fighting Style, Plate Armor, and a Shield. The only down side is that you'll move 10 feet per round as you struggle under the weight of it all X3 I call it the Turtle Wizard.

An interesting rule that I've noticed many people overlooking is that, assuming you're using the variant Encumbrance rules (the normal Encumbrance rules simply don't allow for carrying over 15xStr), then you ignore the Strength requirements of armour. Flat out. Check out PHB pg.176 (Variant: Encumbrance) again. Bearing that in mind, either Point 2 or Point 3 (above) is invalid; you never reduce your speed twice for both not meeting Str requirements and being encumbered; they're mutually exclusive rules.

[Naanomi]

An interesting rule that I've noticed many people overlooking is that, assuming you're using the variant Encumbrance rules (the normal Encumbrance rules simply don't allow for carrying over 15xStr), then you ignore the Strength requirements of armour. Flat out. Check out PHB pg.176 (Variant: Encumbrance) again. Bearing that in mind, either Point 2 or Point 3 (above) is invalid; you never reduce your speed twice for both not meeting Str requirements and being encumbered; they're mutually exclusive rules.
How does that interact with the Dwarf racial ability? Or is variant encumbrance a straight nerf of dwarves?

[PhoenixPhyre]

How does that interact with the Dwarf racial ability? Or is variant encumbrance a straight nerf of dwarves?

It's a straight nerf. One of the many ways variant encumbrance is ill-designed. But I'll stop there so this doesn't turn into an encumbrance rant.

[Segev]

Could you float around on a tensers disc or something?

5e Tenser's floating disk gives the caster no control over where the disk moves, other than that it follows him if he gets more than a certain distance from it, so long as he doesn't move too fast for it to keep up. So he's effectively dragging it by an invisible, intangible string, and can't push it by any means other than pulling it when the string is fully extended.

Now, I'm sure many DMs will be more forgiving on its control, but even in 3e, where the caster had more explicit control, there were huge threads arguing over whether the wizard had enough control to ride it.

[lperkins2]

5e Tenser's floating disk gives the caster no control over where the disk moves, other than that it follows him if he gets more than a certain distance from it, so long as he doesn't move too fast for it to keep up. So he's effectively dragging it by an invisible, intangible string, and can't push it by any means other than pulling it when the string is fully extended.

Now, I'm sure many DMs will be more forgiving on its control, but even in 3e, where the caster had more explicit control, there were huge threads arguing over whether the wizard had enough control to ride it.

Yeah, but it is a ritual spell, so if you can convince someone else to grab it, you can ride on their disk.

[Naanomi]

Phantom Steed is a Ritual as well, solves the problem one you are high enough level

[Contrast]

He went Fighter first level, okay that's fine. Then he took 2 levels in Warlock. Again that's fine Bladelock is cool. Then he started taking levels in Wizard...and never stopped. By level 11 he was a nightmare to deal with.

Here is what he would do, fight would break out, cast Armor of Agathas at level 5 or 6, as soon as he gets attacked he casts shield giving him AC of 23 for the round and a ward HP of 12-14 HP plus temp HP of 25 which did Cold damage of 25 each time he was hit. He topped out at AC 31, (+3 plate and +3 Shield, plus shield spell), for reference an Ancient Red Dragon had a 30% chance to hit him, when it did hit him it would take 25 points of damage.

From then on I decided no heavy armor and casting spells.

I mean...for most of his career he was also two spell levels and an ASI behind a straight classed wizard. Plus it required him burning high and low level spell slots in order to be more survivable in melee (which he presumably was typically seeking to avoid).

There's definite trade offs and I certainly don't think the character is so OP as to justify permabanning all spellcasting in heavy armour. I hate to think what would happen if someone played a bladesinger at your table.

[samcifer]

Note that you do not get any bonuses/changes to AC if you are not proficient with said armor (you count as not wearing armor in this case and calculate your AC as such) and you cannot cast any spells while wearing armor unless you are proficient with that armor.

[tieren]

Meaning yes, it is 100% possible to play a Fighter/Wizard with 8 strength

Multiclass rules would require a 13 in strength for the fighter/wizard, unless for some reason you had over 13 dex and are just a masochist trying to wear heavy armor.

[Snails]

Heavy armor is only one AC above Medium or Light for most characters who care about AC; fun if you get it but hardly necessary (and hardly overpowered)

That is true for many PCs, but I am skeptical about "most".

My Dex 12 dwarf cleric is a pretty good intermediate example. He has splint for AC 19 with shield. I would consider getting a breastplate so the party can do better Stealth, at the cost of -2 AC (19 --> 17).

Half-Plate is pretty meh for this PC. I would only consider it if a set fell into my lap -- I would rather save up my coin for full plate.

If your Dex is 11 or lower, heavy armor is very very nice.

[Contrast]

Note that you do not get any bonuses/changes to AC if you are not proficient with said armor (you count as not wearing armor in this case and calculate your AC as such) and you cannot cast any spells while wearing armor unless you are proficient with that armor.

I don't think this is true. Wearing armour you're not proficient in is pretty crippling for everyone (disadv on ability checks, saving throws, attack rolls using str/dex and you can't cast spells) but you do get the AC I believe.

[Segev]

Does it strike anybody else as weird that a Fighter 1->Wizard 19 can have 8 Str, but a Wizard 1->Fighter 1->Wizard 18 needs to have at least a 13 Strength?

[JoeJ]

Does it strike anybody else as weird that a Fighter 1->Wizard 19 can have 8 Str, but a Wizard 1->Fighter 1->Wizard 18 needs to have at least a 13 Strength?

Neither requires 13 strength. Either one could have 13 dexterity instead.

[Segev]

Neither requires 13 strength. Either one could have 13 dexterity instead.

My bad. My point was, if you're dipping fighter for something other than attack ability, you want to do it at level 1, then switch to what you're running for the rest of your levels, at least if you're short on "good" stats.

[Contrast]

You need to meet the multiclass requirements of both your existing and new class to multiclass.

[Segev]

You need to meet the multiclass requirements of both your existing and new class to multiclass.

Ah! Okay. never mind, then.

...sorry for veering off-topic...

[VoxRationis]

The change in how armor works from 3.5 to 5e was a breath of fresh air for my DM, who had several NPCs who were both knights who went around in full plate but were also spellcasters, and thus had a devil of a time finagling ways to make that work. It's also a bit of a boon for my character (rogue/wizard), who now has a reason to show up to a battle in something other than a ball gown.

[Kyrinthic]

I have a dwarven war wizard, and a 1 level dip into forge cleric was even better than a fighter dip I think. I get the same armor bits, get access to some really useful spells like shield of faith or cure wounds, and dont lose spell slot progression. Every other level I have a slot I dont have a spell of the right size to use, but you can upcast things into that just fine.

Overall going around with a base 21 ac, (up to 5 more from magic shield or armor), the ability to drop shield of faith up for 2 ac ( 4 with the level 10 war wizard ability), and use the shield spell for 5 more makes for an incredibly tanky mostly full wizard caster.

It feels very thematic for a Dwarf, and is a lot of fun to play a more aggressive melee caster. Wisdom is a better offstat to pay for multiclassing than dex or strength, so you dont feel bad dropping a 14 in there or the like either.