Caster 20 / Mythic 10 - How OP can you go?

[JonathanPDX]

A friend started a throwaway Pathfinder campaign using characters that are Level 20 and Mythic 10; not much RP, it's really just an arena game where he throws increasingly powerful monsters at the party to see how much the obviously-overpowered characters can handle.

He challenged me to come up with a concept that's completely, disgustingly, over-the-top broken. Anything goes; the other characters are using Path of War and built to put out hundreds of damage per round and hit things with really dumb save-or-die effects. My first counter to that is a Two-Handed Fighter using Devastating Blow with a scythe, stacking every crit multiplier under the sun, and then doubling it all with the Foe-Biter legendary. If I did my math right that's capable of well over 1,000 damage per round.

The numbers are massive, but every time I look for guides or discussions about the most broken character concepts of all, everyone seems to come back to Wizard or other pure casters. I'm far more familiar with number-crunching martial classes than casters, so I'm curious how you'd approach this challenge with a Wizard or other pure caster. The campaign isn't about versatility or balance, it's just seeing how high your damage or DC numbers can get against random CR 20+ opponents.

Can anyone give me a starting point on how you'd approach a caster in this environment, or what specific spells or action sequences would be the most ridiculous? I know it's a pretty silly exercise but I have to show my friend that I'm the ultimate Munchkin!

Thanks!

[Arbane]

You may have trouble being the Mythic Munchkin, as that spot has already been taken (http://designofdragons.blogspot.com/2016/04/in-brightest-day-in-blackest-night-no.html). If you can do better than killing Cthulhu from the other side of the galaxy by throwing a boat at it, give it a shot. :smallbiggrin:

But that was a team effort. For single-character shenanigans, yes, Casters are Real Ultimate Power in PF, and Mythic doesn't change that. Metamagic abuse might be a good start.

[Kaouse]

You may have trouble being the Mythic Munchkin, as that spot has already been taken (http://designofdragons.blogspot.com/2016/04/in-brightest-day-in-blackest-night-no.html). If you can do better than killing Cthulhu from the other side of the galaxy by throwing a boat at it, give it a shot. :smallbiggrin:

But that was a team effort. For single-character shenanigans, yes, Casters are Real Ultimate Power in PF, and Mythic doesn't change that. Metamagic abuse might be a good start.

The strongest Level 20 Full caster is the Oracle. Specifically a Nature Oracle, or an Oracle with the Cyclopean Seer Archetype. Both of their capstones lead to some rather insane stuff if properly abused (Nature Oracle can use Awaken Loops to get infinite stats, for example). But, the strongest Mythic Path is by far the Archmage. So it's in your best bet to go for either a Wizard or a Sorcerer. Normally, I'd go for an Exploiter Pact Wizard, but with Mythic abound, there's no problem going Sorcerer, since you can use Mythic power to gain access to spells that you don't have as a spell known. Versatility is the only strength the Wizard has over the Sorcerer, but Mythic gets rid of that.

So, the strongest Sorcerer is an Accursed Sorcerer. They can use aid another to increase caster level. Combine this with the spell, Army Across Time, and you can create a clone army of yourself that can only use aid another. Use it to boost your caster level, rinse and repeat until you get a caster level that you're satisfied with.

If the damage is what you want, I'd highly suggest looking into the spell, Battering Blast. Fires a number of touch attack force missiles that deal 5d6 damage. You get 1 missile for every 5 caster levels. As a sorcerer, you are free to take the ability, Bloodline Havoc, in place of your rather worthless Accursed Bloodline powers (also take Bloodline Intensity and Bloodline Piercing, while you are at it). This acts a souped-up version of Intensify Spell, and turns a spell's dice cap to your level. This means you can make each missile deal your caster level in d6s, but you still get multiple missiles with a high caster level. The amount of damage that this combo can deal is ludicrous, and I haven't even begun to mention Mythic.

IIRC, there's a 6th tier ability called Channel Power that lets you boost a spell's damage by 50% for free. That + the usual metamagic (Empowered, Maximized, etc.) should easily net you over 1k a round. Maybe even 2k if you optimize it enough. Theoretically infinite if you spend a lot of time abusing Army Across Time.

[Calthropstu]

Ridiculous infinite cheese aside, the game breaks due to a single spell.

Mythic augmented time stop. That spell is "I win." If you can't figure out a way to end the encounter with 12000 rounds of free action economy with your entire party able to act, you deserve to lose.

If your gm (wisely) bans it, take mythic augmented disintigrate (max damage 1,440... BEFORE crit if you invest properly) and mythic globe of invulnerability.

[AvatarVecna]

guns are pretty good for damage.

Advanced Young Goblin Fighter 20 (Trench Fighter)

Stats (lvl 1, pre-race, 20 pb): 10/18/14/12/10/7
Stats (lvl 1, post-race): 8/30/14/16/14/9
Stats (lvl 20, post-Mythic, post-items): 8/58/14/16/14/9

Mythic (Champion):

Distant Barrage
Ability Scores: Dex +10
1: Always A Chance
2: Impossible Speed
3: Limitless Range
4: Extra Mythic Feat
5: Extra Mythic Feat
6: Extra Mythic Feat
7: Fleet Warrior
8: Maximized Critical
8: Precision
9: Precision
10: Enhanced Dexterity


Feats (*: Applies to Revolver):

HD 1: Point-Blank Shot
F 1: Rapid Reload*
F 2: Goblin Gunslinger
HD 3: Weapon Focus*
F 4: Weapon Specialization*
HD 5: Two-Weapon Fighting
F 6: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
HD 7: Hammer The Gap
F 8: Improved Critical*
HD 9: Greater Weapon Focus*
F 10: Rapid Shot
HD 11: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
F 12: Greater Weapon Specialization*
HD 13: Improved Initiative
F 14: Clustered Shots
HD 15: Point-Blank Master
F 16: Precise Shot
HD 17: Improved Precise Shot
F 18: Snap Shot
HD 19: Improved Snap Shot
F 20: Combat Reflexes
Mythic: Deadly Aim
Mythic: Far Shot
Mythic: Improved Critical*
Mythic: Improved Initiative
Mythic: Point-Blank Shot
Mythic: Rapid Shot
Mythic: Weapon Focus*
Mythic: Weapon Specialization*


Items:

137500: Dex Manual +5
36000: Dex Belt +6
64800: (2)+1 Revolver (Distance +1/Seeking +1/Reliable +1)
72000: Item of continuous "Divine Favor" CL 9
4000: Item of continuous "Longshot" CL 1


Init +38
Range Increments (-1/increment): 900 ft, no maximum range
Target touch out to 4500 ft
You don't auto-miss on a nat 1
Damage is totaled before DR is applied

Get an ally to cast Greater Magic Weapon on your revolvers to make them +5

Full Attack Routine: 50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/45

BAB 20
Dex 24
Size 2
Enhancement 5
Items 3
WF/GWF/MWF 4
Weapon Training 4
TWF -4
Rapid Shot -2
Deadly Aim -6


Damage: 1d8+59+HtG (crit 19-20, 402+{HtG*6})

Base 1d8
Dex 24
Enhancement 5
WS/GWS/MWS 9
Deadly Aim 18
Hammer The Gap {varies}


Hitting somebody 4000 out gives you a -4 to hit them, taking your lowest attack roll down to +41. On a nat 1, this gives you a 42 total, which is enough to hit even Lucifer's Touch AC with a bit of room to spare, so it's a decent assumption your attacks will auto-hit and you're only rolling to see if you crit. This makes calculating DPR with HtG less problematic, thankfully.



Fortification
Avg DPR


0%
1041


25%
950.75


50%
860.5


75%
770.25


100%
680



Eh, it's probably not as DPR optimized as it could be, particularly if it had more party help. Increasing the damage die from 1d8 to 2d6 (via an effective size increase of some kind) would increase hits +2.5/crits +24/DPR 46.5, a Good Hope spell would increase hits +2/crits +12/DPR +30, Inspire Courage would increase hits +4/crits +24/DPR +60 (well, all that assuming no fortification, anyway), but honestly even an additional 136.5 damage is practically gravy past 1000/round. I guess you could spend a point of mythic power to get an attack as a swift action, which increases DPR by one attack's worth (+10/+60 from Hammer The Gap)?

Honestly, though, if you took away the templates, this build would be a good deal worse - not awful, just not nearly this bad every round. And it should probably shift some of that offense focus to improving defenses, but ehhhh.

[JonathanPDX]

The strongest Level 20 Full caster is the Oracle. Specifically a Nature Oracle, or an Oracle with the Cyclopean Seer Archetype. Both of their capstones lead to some rather insane stuff if properly abused (Nature Oracle can use Awaken Loops to get infinite stats, for example).

Thanks for the info and ideas everyone, this is fun stuff!

Reading up a bit on the Awaken Loop idea, it looks pretty funny. If I am reading it correctly, you'd go into a cocoon, emerge as an animal, cast empowered Awaken (for max INT), go into a cocoon, emerge as another race (because it reads "you must select a new type every time the transformation is made), cocoon the next day to go back to animal, and then cast empowered Awaken again? Each time your INT would reset to 18 and you'd add 3 CHR and +2 HD, but how would the +2 HD be calculated on a PC? I haven't found any rules that explain what happens or if that line would just be ignored when cast on a PC. Since base character wealth at level 20 is 880K, my character could afford to lock himself in a tower with a ring of sustenance and a bag of holding full of spell components to raise his CHR a few thousand points?

After that it would just be a matter of finding some spells that deal damage based on CHR bonus, or I could use Miracle to cast Phantasmal Killer with an impossible DC. Bluffing or Intimidating opponents into not even bothering to fight us could be amusing as well.

[Arbane]

Bluffing or Intimidating opponents into not even bothering to fight us could be amusing as well.


You can do that without any loops, just use Mythic Display of Charisma....

[Jack_Simth]

Thanks for the info and ideas everyone, this is fun stuff!

Reading up a bit on the Awaken Loop idea, it looks pretty funny. If I am reading it correctly, you'd go into a cocoon, emerge as an animal, cast empowered Awaken (for max INT), go into a cocoon, emerge as another race (because it reads "you must select a new type every time the transformation is made), cocoon the next day to go back to animal, and then cast empowered Awaken again? Each time your INT would reset to 18 and you'd add 3 CHR and +2 HD, but how would the +2 HD be calculated on a PC? I haven't found any rules that explain what happens or if that line would just be ignored when cast on a PC. Since base character wealth at level 20 is 880K, my character could afford to lock himself in a tower with a ring of sustenance and a bag of holding full of spell components to raise his CHR a few thousand points?

After that it would just be a matter of finding some spells that deal damage based on CHR bonus, or I could use Miracle to cast Phantasmal Killer with an impossible DC. Bluffing or Intimidating opponents into not even bothering to fight us could be amusing as well.

What spell components? There's an Ioun Stone (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/ioun-stones/silver-spindle) that means you don't even need UMD to use Blood Money (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blood-money/) irrespective of class.