Magic Initiate IRL - What spells would you choose?

[Greywander]

I had a kind of random thought; what if you could get the benefits of the Magic Initiate feat in real life? What spells would you want to take? In fact, we can be generous and broaden this to choosing any two cantrips and any 1st level spell, regardless of spell list. We can also ignore casting ability score and assume we're equally competent with all spells.

(Spin off question: If you created a level 0 character e.g. a commoner or race + background with no class, and got two cantrips and one 1st level spell once per day, what would you choose? Might be an interesting way to start a campaign.)

The way I see it, spells could be divided into three basic groups, with some overlap:

Quality of Life

These spells make your day-to-day life easier.

Examples: Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Mending, Goodberry, Unseen Servant

New Career Opportunities

These spells could be monetized or used specifically as part of a job.

Examples: Mending, Control Flames, Mold Earth, Shape Water, Disguise Self, Detect Poison and Disease

In Case of Emergencies

These spells might not see use often, but might just save your life some day.

Examples: Any damage cantrip, Feather Fall, Cure Wounds, Goodberry

For myself, it would be tough but I'd probably take Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, and Find Familiar.

[Trask]

Guidance, just to make my life easier and myself more competent, always.
Thaumaturgy, too diverse and fun to not take.
Cure wounds. Hopefully I'll never have to use it in my life, but if I ever do, it might be the wisest thing I've ever done.

[Slybluedemon]

For my Cantrips i would take Eldrich Blast for self-defence and Spare the Dying to save others
I would take Cure Wounds to protect myself.

I can see Cleric spells being super popular.

[Temperjoke]

I'd go with Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation, and either Comprehend Languages or Disguise Self.

Dancing Lights would be useful because then I wouldn't need a flashlight or try and hold a light in my hands when I'm in the dark (like a power outage, or a couple of times a day during my job).

Prestidigitation has so many practical day-to-day applications for making my life a little better.

Comprehend Languages would be very useful on occasion with my job, but Disguise Self would be satisfactory too.

[furryblueelf]

My cats can attest to Find Familiar being unneeded on my behalf at least. :o

[ProsecutorGodot]

Druidcraft: I walk to work so knowing for certain whether or not I need an umbrella would be nice, the other effects are a nice bonus.

Prestidigitation: All around incredibly useful, flavor my Goodberry's or clean my clothes with the snap of a finger. I could keep my coffee at the optimal temperature at all times.

Goodberry: I would literally save hundreds of dollars a month in food costs and would likely start losing a lot of weight as a side bonus. The only huge downside is that I'd probably be pretty sick of berries at some point, even if I was allowed to create a variety.

[strangebloke]

guidance:Ever wish your surgeon was 10% more competent? Now he is.
spare the dying: You can keep someone alive so long as they don't die in 6 seconds. Make millions keeping rich folks alive for fancy surgery.
Detect Disease and Poison: You can walk into a room of a hundred people, diagnose all of them perfectly, and get paid millions for it.

Basically, set up in a huge, rich city and get paid tons for significantly improving the odds of survival for rich old folks. Donate millions to charity and live on a yacht.

There's a good argument for mending as well. Being able to fix anything is pretty ridiculous. A spy destroyed this hard drive so that we wouldn't access the secret information? Mending.

[Kane0]

Mending - Quality of life and making money. It's hard not to get good mileage out of this.
Goodberry - A hard choice since I want something I'd get use out of every day but not need more than once a day. Saves me money, promotes good health, shareable and in some circumstances can save the lives of up to 9 other people a day! Pretty damn handy.

So now that has limited me to the Druid list, It's a toss up between Guidance, Druidcraft and Shape Water. Each have their merits, but I'd go with Druidcraft so I could be the world's most accurate weatherman, the best repairman ever and on top of that a most excellent florist. I also do party tricks!

[Lord8Ball]

Cantrips:
Minor illusion

I can listen to music or have accompaniment to pieces played without another person or machine effects.
I can use it to hide from detection.
Visual re-enactments of memories.
I can use it for a variety of things in social settings.

Toll the dead

I can off someone from a distance without having to exert real physical effort or aim.
It is a viable option for self-defense

1st level spell:
Sleep

Easy and effective way to incapacitate multiple opponents without causing harm and possibly saving lives in the process.
Useful for being a cop, security, swat, hostage situations, etc.

[leogobsin]

For cantrips:
Prestidigitation. The cleaning aspect alone is probably enough to be worth it
Mending. Day-to-day I'm sure there are sooooo many things this could help with.
As for 1st level spell, I think Comprehend Languages. (I do wonder how the "must be touching the surface on which the words are written" would interact with a computer screen though...)

[Nifft]

(I do wonder how the "must be touching the surface on which the words are written" would interact with a computer screen though...)

It only works on the Microsoft Surface that was used by the original author of the work.

[Mercurias]

Prestidigitation: Save loads on water by casting the stink away. Make yourself bland Health food that tastes like chalk, then Prestidigitation flavor into it. Lots of little quality of life uses.

Mending: Are you rough on your belongings? I am. This would be wonderful the next time I drop a glass.

Healing Word: For the next time I throw my back out.

[JackPhoenix]

Prestidigitation is auto-include. After that, it's a toss-up between Mage Hand, Mending and Guidance, to the point that I'd roll a dice to choose randomly, as all 3 are equally desirable.

As useful as Unseen Servant, Comprehend Languages, and some other spells would be, I'd lean to a Goodberry for 1's... Food available anywhere, and with magical healing on top is hard to beat.

[hymer]

It's a very interesting, inadvertent cultural commentary how people think of self-defence and money in these terms. I'm going to go ahead and assume these people are Americans. :smallwink:

I'd like to avoid the traps of convenience. Mage Hand, e.g., would keep me from getting up from my desk several times per day, and that would cost me more in health than it would ever save in convenience.

Detect Poison and Disease would allow me to diagnose a whole bunch of people unerringly once per day. I'd be infinitely more useful to society than I am today, seeing as how I could tour hospitals and get those mystery diagnoses right.

Speak with Animals could be profoundly world-changing.

As for cantrips, I guess people saying 'Guidance' have an excellent point. You can help yourself or others, and may actually accomplish things otherwise impossible. Since the duration is one minute, it probably wouldn't help much in things like surgery, which takes way longer, so the scope may be more limited, depending on interpretation of the spell's capabilities. Perhaps if surgery is a long series of checks, you might be of help, but then you're another person standing in the operating theatre. Most problems I have to work through likewise take more than a minute to resolve.

Prestidigitation I'm worried would fall into the convenience trap, and might also heighten one's standards to where perfection became bland. Variety is the spice of life, and all that.

Mending, likewise, might lead to unacceptably careless behaviour. When I think back, I can't think of a case where my life would have been greatly improved by this. We can mend stuff pretty well these days, and replacing stuff is pretty much the basis of our economy. It wouldn't work to restore an electronic device that was malfunctioning for software reasons, which is the major annoyance there.

[Randomthom]

Really tempted to run a campaign now where everyone starts as a "level 0 commoner" (albeit with stats rolled and probably a good idea of what class they'll want to pursue) and a free magic initiate feat.

IRL I'd have Mending, Presitidigitation and probably Comprehend Languages though it only being available for 1h/day would suck so maybe just cure wounds for that moment you need it badly!

[nickl_2000]

I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned friends on here. That seems like it could be super useful when you are out in the world and don't care what others think of you.

Although if it were me, I would likely go with the wizard list.
Cantrips: Prestidigitation, Mending
1st Level: Unseen Servant

Honorary Mentions
Cantrip: Friends, Light, Mold Earth, Control Flames, Gust, Shape Water
1st Level: Silent Image, Feather Fall, Comprehend Languages, Sleep, Tenser's Floating Disk

[Maxilian]

1) Guidance, basically a boost in everything i do! YAY!!!!

2) Mending, would literally get a side job if i get this.

2.5) Thaumaturgy, is like the best second option (Great at parties, and can also become part of a show or something, that would be fun)

3) Cure Wounds, would try to use it everytime i can (Basically i would go every day to a hospital, just to feel a little less bad about myself :P)

[Xetheral]

There's a good argument for mending as well. Being able to fix anything is pretty ridiculous. A spy destroyed this hard drive so that we wouldn't access the secret information? Mending.

Mending only works on a "single break or tear". Most ways of destroying a hard drive involve a lot more damage than that. Also, arguably the spell can't recover magnetic charges, so depending on the type of damage, the data may be unrecoverable even if the spell can make the drive operational again.

If you rule that mending can work on an object with multiple breaks or tears, there's still the problem that it only affects one break or tear per casting. Restoring any complex piece of hardware or anything that shattered could take years of effort. Fixing anything with an integrated circuit could take lifetimes (and a powerful microscope).

[Cicciograna]

Prestidigitation for the sheer usefulness of it.

The combination of Friends Guidance (way more useful) and Disguise self to basically have my way in every occasion I meet.
EDIT: come to think of it, Prestifigitation could even allow me to create an illusory version of an ID card, if needed be, to reinforce the impersonation.

[CaptAl]

It's a very interesting, inadvertent cultural commentary how people think of self-defence and money in these terms. I'm going to go ahead and assume these people are Americans. :smallwink:


As an American, I'd just like to say you aren't wrong.

My 1st level once a day spell would be good berries. Even if I tired of eating them, they could still be extremely useful for helping less fortunate people, as well as freeing up a load of time every day to do less maintenance to stay alive.

Cantrips: Guidance is brilliant and really hard to pass up.

Prestidigitation also greatly improves quality of life by ensuring that there's less time spent cleaning up and more time for important things.

[Nifft]

Charm Person lasts for an hour, and gives advantage on all sorts of social checks. That seems useful in business, not to mention partying. The usual flaw of not working on non-people isn't relevant in real life (yet).

Control Flames allows one to put out fires from 60 ft. away, one 5-ft. block every 6 seconds. Since it's magic, we might want to assume that it works on difficult fires (chemicals, etc.). That could get one a very exciting job working with FOOF and the like.

Minor Image might be amazing, if it can create non-object images like diagrams & charts, since it could reduce the effort to communicate complex ideas. Add in a camera, and expressing one's artistic talent becomes very low-effort.

-- -- --

That said, I am absolutely be taking Prestidigitation. Not sure about the other cantrip, and Charm Person looks great but so does Find Familiar and Disguise Self.

[KorvinStarmast]

Mending: make money repairing expensive-to-fix things like expensive clothes. Quickly. Minor body work on cars, as long as the defect is not lover a foot long. (Parking lot fender benders would be my specialty ...)

Cure Wounds: fix my own or others hurts and injuries.

And the last cantrip: Guidance
I'm heading to Vegas, baby, and hitting the craps tables.

[JeenLeen]

Prestidigitation, for its various utility. And especially cleaning.
Probably Mending next, again for utility. Plus, since it can make seamless repairs, you could probably make good money restoring antiques or stuff treasured by rich folk.



Goodberry: I would literally save hundreds of dollars a month in food costs and would likely start losing a lot of weight as a side bonus. The only huge downside is that I'd probably be pretty sick of berries at some point, even if I was allowed to create a variety.

This kinda sold me on Goodberry.
And I reckon it's also work in most cases where you'd want Cure Wounds. It helps less, but magical healing stabilizes bleeding out, so it still helps as long as the person can eat it (or have it shoved into their mouth, if that activates it.)

---

One thing on healing spells is a sense of obligation. If I have something incredibly useful, that could save lives, am I morally obligated to use it each day the most efficiently I can?
Kinda fortunately we aren't in the realm of Cure Disease. Wanting to use that rightly would be difficult.


This reminds me, although it's way lesser, of Panacea's internal debate about having any free time or relaxation. How can she justify it when she could be healing the fatally wounded or those in constant pain?


---

Also, I'm assuming magic is uncommon. If it was that a lot of folk were getting these powers, I might change it up. Like maybe my spell to Sleep for "oh, no, a dude with a violent cantrip is after me. Go to sleep!"

[Willie the Duck]

Small caveat, if I somehow didn't pick a healing one as one of them, and ever randomly came upon someone in need of emergency care who died because I couldn't render aid, I would be forever guilt-wracked, so I might choose one of those even though such instance likely would never come to pass.

If talking real-world convenience, Guidance and Prestidigitation are hands down obvious ones. I'm pretty sure 99% of my IRL actions are skill or ability checks (99.9% unless finding ones keys in the morning or the like is an Int save). Likewise, the things I actually do the most are things like washing ones hands (maybe a stretch to count those as objects), heat or cool drinks, and the like. If unseen servant was a cantrip, there might be competition. Mending comes in as a distant 3rd.

One issue on this is the question of whether the rest of the world 1) was allowed to know about, and 2) was okay with, me having these powers. I'd love to have guidance up all day at work to add the avg. +2.5 to my job checks, but explaining away the verbal and somatic components as something like a mental focusing mantra or the like would take greater deception skill than I have.


It's a very interesting, inadvertent cultural commentary how people think of self-defence and money in these terms. I'm going to go ahead and assume these people are Americans. :smallwink:

Cheap shot. We get it. Not entirely wrong, but still pretty much eye-rolling stereotype-ish. More importantly...


I'd like to avoid the traps of convenience. Mage Hand, e.g., would keep me from getting up from my desk several times per day, and that would cost me more in health than it would ever save in convenience.

This is why I would hew away from Goodberry--exactly how often in my life is being able to derive sustenance without having (/getting) to eat important (or desirable)? That reminds me of a cartoon in the back of a newspaper I saw back when Dolly the sheep was first cloned--it was a scientist running into a room of other scientists loudly proclaiming 'now we can procreate without having sex!' and the caption being 'another solution in search of a problem.' :smallbiggrin:


Detect Poison and Disease would allow me to diagnose a whole bunch of people unerringly once per day. I'd be infinitely more useful to society than I am today, seeing as how I could tour hospitals and get those mystery diagnoses right.

Speak with Animals could be profoundly world-changing.

Both of those definitely fall under the 'are these abilities a secret?-dependent.

[Segev]

Guidance is an average +12.5% facility in anything you or a buddy does. That's pretty nice, but probably will only be moderately notable. Especially since it's as little as +5% and as much as +20%. But, say, cast it every time you bowl, and you get an average (assuming skill is linear with score) +12.5% to your score or strike rate or what-have-you. Also useful at work, and in other situations. Though having to pause to cast it every other round would preclude using it in real-time ongoing tests of skill, most likely. Be a good cheerleading section for a friend, though!

I would personally find minor illusion hard to pass up. Even leaving its trickery uses aside, the ability to reproduce any sound as well as I can remember it, to make sound effects for my own purposes, and to have displays of anything I can picture - because a still photo or diorama is an object even if it's depicting a creature - is amazing. I don't really have a lot of use for the hiding/deceptive aspects, though the ability might make me more of a prankster.

That said, the big must-have for me, prestidigitation, allows a hand-held scale of what minor illusion does, so with only 2 Cantrips at my disposal, I'd probably skip minor illusion. Prestidigitation is the must-have it is because the ability to always be clean, to have my food be to my taste (even when it's (ugh) healthy - imagine being able to fool your taste buds into thinking water is some more delicious and filling treat), and to heat or cool things (e.g. clothing!) for comfort...not to mention the "hand-held trinkets" which can be just about any small tool, writing utensil, or what-have-you...it's just too good to pass up.

Mending is...high on my list of probable choices. Even if it really is just basic breaks and tears, it would be useful on a number of things. Combined with prestidigitation's cleaning ability, it would mean anything I owned that wasn't utterly destroyed would be in permanently excellent condition. But... is it better than mage hand? Probably; while mage hand is cool, it's rare that I really need to reach further than I can without getting up and moving.

So... if I'm sticking to the rules, I'm in Wizard for my selections, which means prestidigitation and mending.

If I'm using the expanded rules of this thread, however, guidance is still a strong competitor for mending. Just...overall greater competence is so very, very valuable to both personal satisfaction and to career success... I'd probably go with it.

(I wouldn't go with friends because it actually creates enemies, and the fact that the spell specifies they KNOW you used magic on them means I couldn't even hide it. By the time word got around enough, people would be investigating me for suspicion of assault or something.)

For the first level spell, I'll give honorable mention to mage armor. Its 8 hour duration means it's almost worth it on its own in terms of being "good enough" for only once per day. It also raises interesting questions: what, exactly, does +3 AC really mean in real life? What kinds of things would it save me from? The sad truth is, despite its fluff, it wouldn't be a "real" force field against anything but deliberate efforts to hurt me with weapons or unarmed attacks, so it just wouldn't come up all that often. If I lived a different life, one where I got into fights a fair bit? Then it'd be a solid choice. But that just isn't something that I face, thankfully.

On the Wizard list, find familiar is really the only other one that has enough utility that it's worth having only once per day.

Going beyond the Wizard list, goodberry is, in fact, quite great. However, I would like to also point to another Druid spell that is probably underrepresented in this thread: animal friendship. Only once per day does limit you, and so if you're good with a deeper bond with a tiny beast, find familiar is better, but just about any animal you're going to find IRL is going to be a valid target, here. Befriend yourself an exotic pet of some sort. Note that the magic might end, but a positive relationship built with a beast can mean a lot for ongoing efforts, allowing you to potentially have more than one critter in your menagerie.

Purify Food and Drink is also pretty awesome. Cast it on your fridge and adjacent pantry, and you only need to really use the fridge on things that spoil over the course of one day. Anything that did spoil, you've fixed. If you want to, you can also volunteer during disaster relief. If you're willing to share knowledge of what you can do, you can even charge for it. "Oh, you price gouger!" they'll whine, but...just take the highest bid each day and purify a 10-ft.-radius-sphere of food. Let people pack as much into the space as they like. Oh, and water.

Sticking with the Wizard list, then, I'd have:

Prestidigitation, Mending, Find Familiar

Allowed to pick from any:

Prestidigitation, Guidance, Goodberry

Much as I like purify food and drink, goodberry would be personally useful to me, assuming its provision of all my nutiritional needs meant I didn't suffer hunger, low blood sugar, etc. problems, and would make actually dieting to lose weight easier. Nothing prevents me from eating normally when I feel like it, but I'd have a much easier time not over-eating.

[DarkKnightJin]

Prestidigitation, Mending..
And then Goodberry or Find Familiar.

The cantrips for the obvious reasons, and the 1st level spell depending on what I'd rather have at the time of choosing. Goodberry would be great in saving money on food. While Find Familiar would be companionship, without the hassle of having to train the pet.
And the 'see through the Familiar's eyes' thing would be helpful in checking up on people without giving yourself away.
Or to have a free lookout when you're doing something you'd rather not have someone finding you doing.

[MilkmanDanimal]

Prestidigitation because of endless reasons.

Guidance because being better at EVERYTHING is utterly great. An average 12.5% bump to basically anything means you're the most competent person around.

Cure Wounds because I've had ankle and shoulder surgery, and any possibility that I could bypass that again in the future is worth it. Two years post-ankle surgery to walk barefoot again and I still sprain that ankle too easily, and seven months after the shoulder I just started being able to sleep on that side again. Being able to fix those issues as I get older would be priceless.

So, basically, Prestidigitation to make life easier, Guidance to make me better at everything, Cure Wounds to fix my owies. Completely easy decision.

[Knaight]

Mending, likewise, might lead to unacceptably careless behaviour. When I think back, I can't think of a case where my life would have been greatly improved by this. We can mend stuff pretty well these days, and replacing stuff is pretty much the basis of our economy. It wouldn't work to restore an electronic device that was malfunctioning for software reasons, which is the major annoyance there.

It is, but the extent to which that's actually a good system as opposed to one that we sort of blundered into is up for debate. Short term, there's a lot of economic systems that basically work out to different ways of extracting resources, production, then elaborate resource distribution systems, where replacement and repair are functionally interchangeable. Long term, one of these burns through nonrenewable resources a bit faster than the other. With repair time taken out of the equation one of these also makes one of these economic systems involve a little bit less in the way of glorified water treading.

This post also looks like the sort of thing that gets written by someone who's never blown a bike tire severely and had to walk it fifteen miles to get home. Mending would have been great there. People not leaving nails out in the middle of nowhere doing too much damage for a patch kit would have been too, but that's a different matter.

That's just one example - electronics might not be particularly susceptible to Mending, but vehicles? Pipelines? Those are, and someone with mending on board of, for example, the Exxon Valdez could have been really useful.

[ProsecutorGodot]

On the topic of Guidance being a popular pick, I find it really hard to accurately gauge how useful it would be outside of the game environment when it's only description of what it does is entirely reliant on Ability Scores in the game world.

I understand it's entirely nitpicking but it's just hard for me to gauge how useful 1d4 is for my check to be generally good at things.

There's also the side point where, even if it was just a flat 12% increase to your expected efficiency that someone could be naturally better than your magical best so you'd be casting a spell just to be above average. Seems a lot less useful for everyday life compared to a life or death skill check in DND.

You could make a killing as a motivational speaker or sporting coach though.

[hymer]

It is, but the extent to which that's actually a good system as opposed to one that we sort of blundered into is up for debate. Short term, there's a lot of economic systems that basically work out to different ways of extracting resources, production, then elaborate resource distribution systems, where replacement and repair are functionally interchangeable. Long term, one of these burns through nonrenewable resources a bit faster than the other. With repair time taken out of the equation one of these also makes one of these economic systems involve a little bit less in the way of glorified water treading.
I'm not going to comment on the political stuff, other than to say I generally agree with your critique.


This post also looks like the sort of thing that gets written by someone who's never blown a bike tire severely and had to walk it fifteen miles to get home.
When I cycle that far (oh, like, last Sunday), I either make sure I have potential backup in the shape of a phone, or just, you know, a tyre kit. I learned my lesson when I had to run to an exam once in my teens. The kind of thing you wrote looks like the sort of thing that gets written by someone who's never learned to plan properly. :smalltongue:


That's just one example - electronics might not be particularly susceptible to Mending, but vehicles? Pipelines? Those are, and someone with mending on board of, for example, the Exxon Valdez could have been really useful.
I'm not intimately familiar with the Exxon Valdez, but somehow I doubt the break or tear was small enough that the 1-foot limitation would have allowed it to work. Then there's the Touch range. As I understand it, when you detect breakage in a pipeline, you turn off the pressure, and then send a team out there to look for the problem. Mending might well (if it was a tear or break, and small enough) let you start pumping again faster than otherwise, but it wouldn't deal with whatever caused the leak in the first place. And it wouldn't reduce the amount of oil spilled. On the contrary, it might serve to make owners of pipelines more lax, as repairs became quicker and cheaper compared to maintenance and quality construction.

[Willie the Duck]

When I cycle that far (oh, like, last Sunday), I either make sure I have potential backup in the shape of a phone, or just, you know, a tyre kit. I learned my lesson when I had to run to an exam once in my teens. The kind of thing you wrote looks like the sort of thing that gets written by someone who's never learned to plan properly. :smalltongue:

Can't that basic premise be applied to any selection we make? Who needs Comprehend Languages when you can just know the language in question (or one of many readily available translation services, many of which now come standard or readily available on smartphones)? Who needs Cure Wounds when tourniquet and EMTs exist? Goodberry?, heh!, try actual food. Given that most of us are, for the most part, doing okay most of the time, isn't any and all magic vaguely superfluous? Mending at the very least condenses any repair kit one might need into a single selection.

[nickl_2000]

It is, but the extent to which that's actually a good system as opposed to one that we sort of blundered into is up for debate. Short term, there's a lot of economic systems that basically work out to different ways of extracting resources, production, then elaborate resource distribution systems, where replacement and repair are functionally interchangeable. Long term, one of these burns through nonrenewable resources a bit faster than the other. With repair time taken out of the equation one of these also makes one of these economic systems involve a little bit less in the way of glorified water treading.

This post also looks like the sort of thing that gets written by someone who's never blown a bike tire severely and had to walk it fifteen miles to get home. Mending would have been great there. People not leaving nails out in the middle of nowhere doing too much damage for a patch kit would have been too, but that's a different matter.

That's just one example - electronics might not be particularly susceptible to Mending, but vehicles? Pipelines? Those are, and someone with mending on board of, for example, the Exxon Valdez could have been really useful.

Honestly my initial thought was a popped button or ripped pants when out in public.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Spare the Dying- I don't want to be a miracle worker with cure wounds and such. But i don't mind stabilizing people until help arrives. Also lets my familiar do it too.
Find Familiar- I now have a buddy with a variety of forms and uses. Whats not to love?
Produce Flame- Besides being a decent way to defend myself, its also a source of light. Not very useful in most of my life but in case life takes a dramatic turn this would be welcomed.

The only one of these i'd use daily is the familiar, the cantrips are only there for the worst case scenarios.

Ok i might use produce flame just because i can throw fire whenever i want but thats whatever.

[Quoxis]

To anyone saying goodberry:
That’s rice. Costs basically nothing for kilograms of food that’s bland but nourishing. You can also buy gallons worth of chicken stock etc. for equally nothing per serving, so each and everyone of you saying „i‘d live off of goodberries flavored with prestidigitation to save hunderds of dollars“ is a hypocrite.

Also: You can eat rice and not starve doing so, but it’s not exactly healthy. Game limitations only make it reasonable not to include rules for cases of adventurers eating nothing but goodberries for months, but would that work the same irl?

For me, it’d be prestidigitation (i hate cleaning), gust (i hate heat and in a bind, pushing people around is useful) and find familiar (a small pet you can banish to another dimension whenever it’s convenient and through the eyes of which you can see).

[hymer]

Can't that basic premise be applied to any selection we make? Who needs Comprehend Languages when you can just know the language in question (or one of many readily available translation services, many of which now come standard or readily available on smartphones)? Who needs Cure Wounds when tourniquet and EMTs exist? Goodberry?, heh!, try actual food. Given that most of us are, for the most part, doing okay most of the time, isn't any and all magic vaguely superfluous? Mending at the very least condenses any repair kit one might need into a single selection.

To a degree. My first post in this thread is mostly about how I think we wouldn't need most of these things, and some have hidden detrimental effects. As I said, I was looking back at my life, and thinking Mending wouldn't have made a great difference either way. I made it to my examination in time, after all, and maybe the extra adrenaline actually helped, who knows? Sure, there have been cases where understanding a language would have satisfied my curiosity on the spot. But if I really wanted to know, I've always managed to find out. Speak with Animals, though...
With Goodberry, it could be used to deal with malnutrition, and it would make for an easier means of weight control, supposing it actually makes you feel full. It's at least an clear and easy diet to follow.
I'd certainly say that healing spells would be of very limited use to most modern people. Maybe emergency responders or professional soldiers could use some healing (though it depends on whether you can stop people dying with a DC 10 Medicine check or a Healer's Kit...), but for the rest of us we're far, far more likely to die of cancer or some vascular disease.
There are some people who live much more dangerous places, of course. It isn't exactly clear how healing hit points would interact with real life trauma. A lot of the time, people die from blood loss or organ failure a while after the initial trauma is inflicted, not in the on-or-off way 5e hp work.

Edit: Come to think of it, it was snapped chain, not a puncture. But that's the only time I've had a snapped chain in the field. I'm still expecting punctures more, though tyres these days are pretty good at avoiding them.

[Cybren]

Druidcraft says "You instantly make a flower blossom, a seed pod open, or a leaf bud bloom."

Do we construe that as allowing you to accelerate the growth of plants? If so, you could use it to quickly grow high-value crops like saffron, or depending on the legality in your jurisdiction, other things.

[Degwerks]

I'd choose Presdigitation and Vicious Mockery and if UA is allowed Unearthly Chorus. Some songs should just play when I walk into a room.

[Knaight]

Do we construe that as allowing you to accelerate the growth of plants? If so, you could use it to quickly grow high-value crops like saffron, or depending on the legality in your jurisdiction, other things.


Vanilla would be another good candidate for this - it's an orchid, and even by orchid standards it's a finicky plant rarely in bloom.

[Segev]

On the topic of Guidance being a popular pick, I find it really hard to accurately gauge how useful it would be outside of the game environment when it's only description of what it does is entirely reliant on Ability Scores in the game world.

I understand it's entirely nitpicking but it's just hard for me to gauge how useful 1d4 is for my check to be generally good at things.

There's also the side point where, even if it was just a flat 12% increase to your expected efficiency that someone could be naturally better than your magical best so you'd be casting a spell just to be above average. Seems a lot less useful for everyday life compared to a life or death skill check in DND.

You could make a killing as a motivational speaker or sporting coach though.The way I look at it, unless you're a soldier or gangster or other type who gets in fights very frequently, the vast majority of all activities you do that you'd like to do well, but have any significant chance of failure at? They're things 5e models as Ability Checks. Which guidance gives you that 5%-20% boost to (averaging at 12.5%).


To anyone saying goodberry:
That’s rice. Costs basically nothing for kilograms of food that’s bland but nourishing. You can also buy gallons worth of chicken stock etc. for equally nothing per serving, so each and everyone of you saying „i‘d live off of goodberries flavored with prestidigitation to save hunderds of dollars“ is a hypocrite.If I went goodberry, it would be hoping it would help me eat less while not suffering any of the hunger pangs and blood sugar headaches I get. Being flavored by prestidigitation or just plain swallowed like a pill would mean I didn't have to endure unpleasant food, and justwould have to exercise self-control over eating for pleasure.


Also: You can eat rice and not starve doing so, but it’s not exactly healthy. Game limitations only make it reasonable not to include rules for cases of adventurers eating nothing but goodberries for months, but would that work the same irl?It says it does, and it's magic. Rice doesn't actually provide EXACTLY the calories you need AND guarantee you won't feel hungry. Admittedly, the spell doesn't say it alleviates hunger, either, but if it keeps you from "suffering penalties" for not eating, discomfort is, in fact, a penalty.

[Cybren]

The way I look at it, unless you're a soldier or gangster or other type who gets in fights very frequently, the vast majority of all activities you do that you'd like to do well, but have any significant chance of failure at? They're things 5e models as Ability Checks. Which guidance gives you that 5%-20% boost to (averaging at 12.5%).

If I went goodberry, it would be hoping it would help me eat less while not suffering any of the hunger pangs and blood sugar headaches I get. Being flavored by prestidigitation or just plain swallowed like a pill would mean I didn't have to endure unpleasant food, and justwould have to exercise self-control over eating for pleasure.

It says it does, and it's magic. Rice doesn't actually provide EXACTLY the calories you need AND guarantee you won't feel hungry. Admittedly, the spell doesn't say it alleviates hunger, either, but if it keeps you from "suffering penalties" for not eating, discomfort is, in fact, a penalty.

I tried to get some health information for the goodberry diet but crawford didn't give me anything
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1011690909304406016

[ProsecutorGodot]

To anyone saying goodberry:
That’s rice. Costs basically nothing for kilograms of food that’s bland but nourishing. You can also buy gallons worth of chicken stock etc. for equally nothing per serving, so each and everyone of you saying „i‘d live off of goodberries flavored with prestidigitation to save hunderds of dollars“ is a hypocrite.

Also: You can eat rice and not starve doing so, but it’s not exactly healthy. Game limitations only make it reasonable not to include rules for cases of adventurers eating nothing but goodberries for months, but would that work the same irl?

For me, it’d be prestidigitation (i hate cleaning), gust (i hate heat and in a bind, pushing people around is useful) and find familiar (a small pet you can banish to another dimension whenever it’s convenient and through the eyes of which you can see).

I'm not sure why you're calling it hypocritical to think a free quick meal that magically nourishes me and 9 other people for an entire day, everyday, is a good thing that would save me hundreds of dollars.

Nourishment by definition is the sustenance needed for growth and maintaining good health so even in a real life scenario Goodberry's are a magical superfood that fill all of your essential requirements.

Cheap is not free, free is free. Just because Rice and soup stocks are cheap doesn't mean I couldn't be saving money and be kept more healthy from Goodberry's.

Speaking as a man who's on the kind of budget where Rice and cheap foods are keeping me from starving, Goodberry would let me start actually saving money instead of barely scraping in my bills.

[Segev]

I'm not sure why you're calling it hypocritical to think a free quick meal that magically nourishes me and 9 other people for an entire day, everyday, is a good thing that would save me hundreds of dollars.

Nourishment by definition is the sustenance needed for growth and maintaining good health so even in a real life scenario Goodberry's are a magical superfood that fill all of your essential requirements.

Cheap is not free, free is free. Just because Rice and soup stocks are cheap doesn't mean I couldn't be saving money and be kept more healthy from Goodberry's.

Speaking as a man who's on the kind of budget where Rice and cheap foods are keeping me from starving, Goodberry would let me start actually saving money instead of barely scraping in my bills.

I imagine you know your budget for food to the penny, then. Take your daily budget for food. Multiply by 2/3. Find 9 college students or other hard-up people and sell them a goodberry a day for that 2/3 of your daily food budget. It's cheaper for them, and you're now EARNING 6x your daily food budget per day on top of whatever your normal income is!

(I'm not arguing with you, but supporting your point and suggesting further how this could be good for somebody in your situation. Just in case, due to the way forum conversations go, it sounded like I thought I was disagreeing rather than agreeing.)

[Cybren]

I imagine you know your budget for food to the penny, then. Take your daily budget for food. Multiply by 2/3. Find 9 college students or other hard-up people and sell them a goodberry a day for that 2/3 of your daily food budget. It's cheaper for them, and you're now EARNING 6x your daily food budget per day on top of whatever your normal income is!

(I'm not arguing with you, but supporting your point and suggesting further how this could be good for somebody in your situation. Just in case, due to the way forum conversations go, it sounded like I thought I was disagreeing rather than agreeing.)
OR go to LA, open up an exclusive boutique that serves 10 berries a day for $1500 a berry, and advertise all sorts of miraculous benefits, and make roughly 3-4 million a year.

[nickl_2000]

OR go to LA, open up an exclusive boutique that serves 10 berries a day for $1500 a berry, and advertise all sorts of miraculous benefits, and make roughly 3-4 million a year.

No trust me, they are a super food. They are completely vegan, all natural, gluten and dairy free, and solely sourced from local ingredients

[Segev]

They do cure 1 hp each, so they might well be worth a lot more than just their food value.

That said, opening a boutique, you're still not likely to sell 9 berries/day. You run into problems of having too many interested buyers at a reasonable price (because you can only cast it 1/day), or having no customers at a higher price, because it's too out of the way and doesn't actually have enough health benefits.

I think your best bet would be "superfood" + "diet - lose weight and don't feel crappy!" (assuming it does work that way).

Goodberry is one of those spells that becomes kind-of hilarious if you have a multiclass Druid/Warlock, though. 10 berries an hour for even just a 2nd level character! In an 8 hour day, he could feed 80 people. And most of those 8 hours is spent relaxing, chatting, hanging out, or otherwise resting. Double that to 160 berries/8 hour day at 3rd level (2 warlock/1 druid).

[PeteNutButter]

Minor Illusion makes you single-handily the best special effects creator ever. With perspective and a separate track for the sound, the limitations of the spell are meaningless. The only moral thing to do would be to charge so much that only a film or two a year could afford you. That way you don't put those CGI folks out of business.

Protection from Good and Evil. It'd be nice to get the demons out of my head for 10 minutes a day.

[Quoxis]

I'm not sure why you're calling it hypocritical to think a free quick meal that magically nourishes me and 9 other people for an entire day, everyday, is a good thing that would save me hundreds of dollars.

Nourishment by definition is the sustenance needed for growth and maintaining good health so even in a real life scenario Goodberry's are a magical superfood that fill all of your essential requirements.

Cheap is not free, free is free. Just because Rice and soup stocks are cheap doesn't mean I couldn't be saving money and be kept more healthy from Goodberry's.

Speaking as a man who's on the kind of budget where Rice and cheap foods are keeping me from starving, Goodberry would let me start actually saving money instead of barely scraping in my bills.

Way to combine two arguments into one and argue against both with each other. Your name fits well, but i‘ve got an OBJECTION!

Nourishment for free - rice and potatoes can keep you alive and provide 99% of what an adult needs in calories and nutrients. Supplemented with an occasional egg for protein and cheap fruit for exotic vitamins that’s cheap enough for people who have access to the electronics needed to post here, e.g. people above the poorest of the poor. The money you‘d save here isn’t hundreds per month (unless you’re talking about currencies like yen or live in inflation à la „loaf of bread? 600000 local dollars“), but per year. It’s still money, but less than the idea suggests.
You’re either spending money on the luxury of flavor/texture like everyone else (=hypocrisy in the sense of „if i could live off free food that just taste bad“) or on healthy food - you don’t need to tell me which one it is, just be honest to yourself.

The health thing is a reasonable concern, that’s why i included it in my comment. If goodberries can do that, it’s cool and all. I‘m still sure you‘d spend some of the money you saved on food with actual taste or texture that’d please you - why else would anyone go to fancy restaurants?

[Segev]

Minor Illusion makes you single-handily the best special effects creator ever. With perspective and a separate track for the sound, the limitations of the spell are meaningless. The only moral thing to do would be to charge so much that only a film or two a year could afford you. That way you don't put those CGI folks out of business.

Protection from Good and Evil. It'd be nice to get the demons out of my head for 10 minutes a day.

No, you charge what you charge because it's that good. No need to worry about putting CGI folks out of business; you'll probably wind up hiring them to help you visualize things, and to get the motion stuff working. You provide models and visuals they work from, and then they program the motion.

It's great, but it isn't all-encompassing. SFX needs stuff minor illusion can't do. And you'll command the rates you command because you still have limited hours in your day, and there will be competition for your services. Take all the pay they'll give you. No need to worry about "ethics" that "force" you to charge high rates so others don't get put out of business. The natural limitation of the supply of your time will do that for you.

[PeteNutButter]

No, you charge what you charge because it's that good. No need to worry about putting CGI folks out of business; you'll probably wind up hiring them to help you visualize things, and to get the motion stuff working. You provide models and visuals they work from, and then they program the motion.

It's great, but it isn't all-encompassing. SFX needs stuff minor illusion can't do. And you'll command the rates you command because you still have limited hours in your day, and there will be competition for your services. Take all the pay they'll give you. No need to worry about "ethics" that "force" you to charge high rates so others don't get put out of business. The natural limitation of the supply of your time will do that for you.

Spoken like a proper free-marketer. You'll find I don't disagree, but was trying [and failing] to avoid veering relatively political discussion.

There may be something to be said though about trying to disrupt a market as little as possible. If you destroy an entire industry and leave a vacuum when you retire or die things end up worse than where you started. It's not like an invention that puts people out of work, but makes society better in the long run. You just get a free magic ability that seems to be rather unearned, and not likely replicated.

[Segev]

Spoken like a proper free-marketer. You'll find I don't disagree, but was trying [and failing] to avoid veering relatively political discussion.

There may be something to be said though about trying to disrupt a market as little as possible. If you destroy an entire industry and leave a vacuum when you retire or die things end up worse than where you started. It's not like an invention that puts people out of work, but makes society better in the long run. You just get a free magic ability that seems to be rather unearned, and not likely replicated.

That is a concern, but I will contend that none of the spells we're discussing here would make one man able to replace an entire industry. Compete within it on a scale to make him a big player, certainly, but nothing irreplaceable. We're not going to pure Superman-based power generation, here. :smallwink:

[Oramac]

Realistically, all damaging cantrips (and 1st level spells, for that matter) are at a severe disadvantage in our world of modern firearms. Considering a combat round is 6 seconds, and ignoring that "combat rounds" do not exist IRL, shooting one Fire Bolt per 6 seconds pales in comparison to any modern day firearm. Even an amateur like myself can accurately and easily put 10 rounds on target with a pistol in under 6 seconds. Hell, I could probably do it with a 30 round mag in a rifle. Then you talk about people who actually have talent, like Jerry Miculek (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzHG-ibZaKM), and it's not even close.

Now, having said all that, I would still take a damaging cantrip because they have 3 advantages over firearms:

1) they never run out of ammo
2) They cannot be taken away
3) They can be "carried" literally anywhere

================================================== ==========

On a mostly unrelated thought, I had the idea for a specific set of spells to take.

Ignoring the obvious ethical issues, I'd take Vicious Mockery, Prestidigitation, and Cure Wounds. Then, join UFC and become a world-champion cage fighter!

[nothinglord]

Well Goodberry is clearly the best choice for the level 1 spell, since you never need money for food. You could potentially even get lodging if you sold the other 9 berries or offered then in return for a living space.

You're now limited to Druid spells, but that doesn't really matter. Take Mending and open up a Repair shop. You repair anything, electronics, tools, furniture, antiques, w/e. As long as whatever's broken is small enough you can fix it. You can even fix stuff in a way that prevents the resale value from going down. Someone has a rare limited edition item/painting that now isn't worth as much? When you fix it it's literally as good as new. This job probably makes you all the money you'll ever need.

For your last cantrip, you can pick whatever you want, but you can't ever go wrong with Guidance. Your now 5-20% better at anything you could ever do! Do better in school (for whatever reason you're still going), get all the dates, convince the customers at your repair job to pay you more, or anything else!

Alternatively, you could make even more money by taking Move Earth and getting a construction job. You'll be so efficient companies will be fighting to hire you.

[Willie the Duck]

Speak with Animals, though...
Speak with Animals is definitely one that violates the 'we can already do that' paradigm I mentioned. It is world-changing. Although, if we're thinking about world changing, Detect Evil and Good gives us a factual answer to whether those are objective qualities. Can't think of anything more world-changing than that.


With Goodberry, it could be used to deal with malnutrition, and it would make for an easier means of weight control, supposing it actually makes you feel full. It's at least an clear and easy diet to follow.


I would add the caveat that, in addition to making you feel full, Goodberry would have to do something to the natural human urge to eat. Otherwise it'd be a single mouthful that provides all the calories (and yes nutrition) you need for the day... and then most any of us would still eat at least some other food.



For your last cantrip, you can pick whatever you want, but you can't ever go wrong with Guidance. Your now 5-20% better at anything you could ever do! Do better in school (for whatever reason you're still going), get all the dates, convince the customers at your repair job to pay you more, or anything else!

Those last two would be hard to manage. How are you going to explain away the wacky words and hand gestures you use right before asking said person out on dates or negotiating prices? Social Skills (along with Stealth, depending on how loud your DM considers verbal components to spells) are one of the few places where guidance would have some serious problems.

[Kane0]

I imagine it as someone muttering ‘god give me strength’ every minute or so.
So yeah it could be problematic, not to mention annoying after some period of time.

[Cybren]

I imagine it as someone muttering ‘god give me strength’ every minute or so.
So yeah it could be problematic, not to mention annoying after some period of time.

Okay while we're here... what's with everyone calling verbal spell components "muttering"? They have to be audibly loud and verbally clear! That's the opposite of muttering.

[xroads]

Mending - Because it'd be useful to be easily fix things.
Minor Illusion - I'd much rather show than explain things to people. This would help make that task so much easier.
Sleep - Can cast it on myself on a restless night. And in an emergency, cast it on an assailant.

[Xihirli]

Speak with Animals is definitely one that violates the 'we can already do that' paradigm I mentioned. It is world-changing. Although, if we're thinking about world changing, Detect Evil and Good gives us a factual answer to whether those are objective qualities. Can't think of anything more world-changing than that.

No, it doesn't. Detect Evil and Good doesn't detect evil and good.

[ProsecutorGodot]

No, it doesn't. Detect Evil and Good doesn't detect evil and good.

It would be pretty intense if you picked that spell up and it actually pinged once in your life. I don't know if I would survive the knowledge of extraplanar or undead fantasy creatures hiding in our midst.

You would be a legitimate ghost hunter though, you could actually prove or debunk claims of haunted locations. All you'd struggle with is getting people to actually believe you.

[Segev]

It really does depend what the verbal and somatic components are. Are they something one can disguise as mundane but obvious quirks, or are they going to require you to feign a weird personality trait where you perform little rituals like a nerd or a crazy person?

Is it as simple as blowing on your dice and saying "Daddy needs a new pair of shoes," or, "By Jove, I can do this!" or does it require tracing precise symbols in the air with your fingers while chanting "Lorum Ipsum" five times, loudly and blatantly?

If it can be anything more subtle than practically standing there and saying, "I am using bad Latin to 'pretend' to cast a spell," then you can probably disguise it as a quirky tic.

[Oramac]

Okay while we're here... what's with everyone calling verbal spell components "muttering"? They have to be audibly loud and verbally clear! That's the opposite of muttering.


It really does depend what the verbal and somatic components are. Are they something one can disguise as mundane but obvious quirks, or are they going to require you to feign a weird personality trait where you perform little rituals like a nerd or a crazy person?

And this is why I'd pick Vicious Mockery. There's no worrying about whether someone hears you. You want to be heard!

[Willie the Duck]

It really does depend what the verbal and somatic components are. Are they something one can disguise as mundane but obvious quirks, or are they going to require you to feign a weird personality trait where you perform little rituals like a nerd or a crazy person?

Well, at this point we have to kind of define our genre. Is this X-men, where people know superpowers exist, but being outed as having them can get you killed? No one knows about spells (well, real spells that work anyways), and if you're found out you probably end up spending the rest of your life in area 51 being poked and prodded (/dissected)? Everyone has spells and that's the norm? Regardless, casting Guidance before trying to seduce or con someone is going to cause as many problems as it solves, but for other things, it's helpful to know what one needs to fear.

[Segev]

Well, at this point we have to kind of define our genre. Is this X-men, where people know superpowers exist, but being outed as having them can get you killed? No one knows about spells (well, real spells that work anyways), and if you're found out you probably end up spending the rest of your life in area 51 being poked and prodded (/dissected)? Everyone has spells and that's the norm? Regardless, casting Guidance before trying to seduce or con someone is going to cause as many problems as it solves, but for other things, it's helpful to know what one needs to fear.

To be fair, at worst casting guidance before a social interaction would be counterproductive because it would give you Disadvantage due to the person knowing you're insecure and/or out to "get" something. More likely, if it's something you do all the time, they probably will ignore it. It's just part of what makes you confident/competent. They already expected you to try your hardest to be persuasive/engaging/amusing/whatever.

[krugaan]

Regardless, casting Guidance before trying to seduce or con someone is going to cause as many problems as it solves, but for other things, it's helpful to know what one needs to fear.

This really sounds like people in RL already, who ask God for guidance on stuff like what to order at an unfamiliar restaurant or whether or not they should gamble.

[MilkmanDanimal]

I think people are underestimating how hugely significant 12.5% really is. I mean, it's not like professional athletics is exactly the kind of thing that has a common comparison with day-to-day tasks and all, but the statistical basis of it makes it easy to use. Someone with a career .300 batting average in baseball is going to be remembered as a great hitter; increasing that by 12.5% would be a .3375 average, and suddenly you're #22 of all time in baseball history. A running back in football getting 4.5 yards/carry is a good performer; 12.5% higher and you're about 5 yards/carry, and you're an All-Pro consistently. I'm an IT guy, and if you gave me a developer who made 12.5% fewer mistakes and caused 12.5% fewer production bugs, I'd be making sure they were very well compensated and keep them around.

The gap between "OK" and "good" and "good" and "great" is really not much, and one of the standard lines about athletic greatness is it's not about the capacity to be great, but it's about being able to consistently be great. 12.5% of bonus is enough to get you up there very regularly.

[Nifft]

And this is why I'd pick Vicious Mockery. There's no worrying about whether someone hears you. You want to be heard!

Winning a fist-fight via Vicious Mockery is such a great image.

First you verbally humiliate the bloke while he consistently misses you (thanks to Disadvantage).

Then you appear to one-shot him when he's nearly falling down from accumulated Psychic damage, which might be invisible to viewers.

[Aaron Underhand]

While I agree Goodberry, Healing Word and Cure Wounds are all hugely significant (read stop internal bleeding), I can think of only three times in my life when that would have been significant (Maybe that's enough!)

What surprises me is that no one has mentioned the possible application either as a spiritualist, or a magician.

Unseen Servant would have Penn and Teller offering you millions...

Dancing lights and minor illusion would allow you to hold seances with much more plausible spirits, and the spell casting would not be an issue!

I also think Create Water needs an honourable mention. There are two reasons for this... 1 living in the Australian outback, or any desert area. Actually think survivalist with Create Water, Eldritch Blast and prestidigitation... kill game and prepare it!

Reason 2 is more interesting. A single individual able to create 10 gallons of water a day trivialises spaceflight and moon/mars colonies. 10 gallons of extra mass produced where you are breaks all the rules, and with electrolysis contains enough oxygen for one person, with significant excess to use as oxygen/hydrogen fuel. If you have a 90% efficient recycling system for air and water you could probably support 15 people, and your re-supply issues are reduced to dried food. For more details look up "Mars Direct" …

As someone who grew up on stories of Mars colonies "real soon now" this would probably be my pick. Add Mage hand for reactionless thrust on a space suit during EVA, or even just for remote manipulation without an EVA, and Mending... Astronaut by right of special talents...

[Knaight]

This really sounds like people in RL already, who ask God for guidance on stuff like what to order at an unfamiliar restaurant or whether or not they should gamble.

Which in this context would be them praying in front of you for the skill to either seduce you or lie to you effectively. Either way I don't see that going over well, at least outside of a very few specialized targets in the former case.

[Willie the Duck]

I think people are underestimating how hugely significant 12.5% really is. I mean, it's not like professional athletics is exactly the kind of thing that has a common comparison with day-to-day tasks and all, but the statistical basis of it makes it easy to use. Someone with a career .300 batting average in baseball is going to be remembered as a great hitter; increasing that by 12.5% would be a .3375 average, and suddenly you're #22 of all time in baseball history. A running back in football getting 4.5 yards/carry is a good performer; 12.5% higher and you're about 5 yards/carry, and you're an All-Pro consistently. I'm an IT guy, and if you gave me a developer who made 12.5% fewer mistakes and caused 12.5% fewer production bugs, I'd be making sure they were very well compensated and keep them around.

The gap between "OK" and "good" and "good" and "great" is really not much, and one of the standard lines about athletic greatness is it's not about the capacity to be great, but it's about being able to consistently be great. 12.5% of bonus is enough to get you up there very regularly.

You are mixing and matching where you are putting your 12.5s. Increasing a success rate by 12.5% is not the same as reducing your bug rate by 12.5%. But that does highlight a deeper problem with us analyzing this.

Calling it a +12.5% increase is a ridiculous simplification we are using to simplify the conversation. It is a +1-+4 on a 1d20 roll, with completely unknown target numbers. Unknown is how often one is rolling with advantage or disadvantage. Given the skill system rubric of not rolling if an outcome is uncertain. Add in that skill checks don't really do variable success well (so using the baseball analogy, we don't know if success by 5 or more turns a hit into a home-run, or if instead the real world 'DM' instead has you roll damage against the ball field's hit points or something. In the end, mapping this benefit to actual performance is not going to be that simple.

I decided not to say something, but Segev's example ("But, say, cast it every time you bowl, and you get an average (assuming skill is linear with score) +12.5% to your score or strike rate or what-have-you") also showcases this. Bowling in particular is not linear. Scoring an +12.5% to a consistent 7 points a frame would actually be pretty poor, and not move someone from being a poor bowler to a decent one, but increasing one's strike rate by 12.5% would be impressive, so it all matters on what these rolls get us.


Which in this context would be them praying in front of you for the skill to either seduce you or lie to you effectively. Either way I don't see that going over well, at least outside of a very few specialized targets in the former case.

Being overheard whispering, "Dear god, help me ask this <guy/girl> out successfully!" might get you a sympathy date from a very specific person, but that's about it. :smallbiggrin:

[Knaight]

Being overheard whispering, "Dear god, help me ask this <guy/girl> out successfully!" might get you a sympathy date from a very specific person, but that's about it. :smallbiggrin:

I was thinking of it more as prayer qua prayer a display of piety, which is a plus for some people (and a hard negative for others).

Either way, it's going to go over better than "Dear god, help me con this sucker."

[PeteNutButter]

Winning a fist-fight via Vicious Mockery is such a great image.

First you verbally humiliate the bloke while he consistently misses you (thanks to Disadvantage).

Then you appear to one-shot him when he's nearly falling down from accumulated Psychic damage, which might be invisible to viewers.

Until that day you get mad and accidentally turn your normal rage fit into a Vicious Mockery. Rolling a 4 on that d4 is enough to instantly knock out the average commoner. I just hope whoever has this isn't the kind of person to scold their server at a restaurant.

[Oramac]

Reason 2 is more interesting. A single individual able to create 10 gallons of water a day trivialises spaceflight and moon/mars colonies. 10 gallons of extra mass produced where you are breaks all the rules, and with electrolysis contains enough oxygen for one person, with significant excess to use as oxygen/hydrogen fuel. If you have a 90% efficient recycling system for air and water you could probably support 15 people, and your re-supply issues are reduced to dried food. For more details look up "Mars Direct" …

As someone who grew up on stories of Mars colonies "real soon now" this would probably be my pick. Add Mage hand for reactionless thrust on a space suit during EVA, or even just for remote manipulation without an EVA, and Mending... Astronaut by right of special talents...

Now that's a hell of an idea! I like it.

[Segev]

Which in this context would be them praying in front of you for the skill to either seduce you or lie to you effectively. Either way I don't see that going over well, at least outside of a very few specialized targets in the former case.

It wouldn't be specific. Guidance is cast up to a minute before the beneficiary chooses to use the +1d4 bonus; the spell itself is not cast for a specific task.

"Please, God, help me out, here," would be about as specific as it would get.



Good point on bowling. You have to ask yourself when you're actually rolling the dice. What is it you're rolling for? Is it per bowl? Is the DC the strike DC? The spare DC? are there multiple DCs? Do you roll once, for the whole game?

It's an open question.


Same with social interaction. Conning, seducing, befriending, persuading, or just plain impressing somebody...do you roll once for each argument or quip you make, or do you roll once for the whole conversation? Are you 12.5% (on average) more charming with each line, or just in general for the whole encounter?

[Doug Lampert]

Calling it a +12.5% increase is a ridiculous simplification we are using to simplify the conversation. It is a +1-+4 on a 1d20 roll, with completely unknown target numbers. Unknown is how often one is rolling with advantage or disadvantage. Given the skill system rubric of not rolling if an outcome is uncertain. Add in that skill checks don't really do variable success well (so using the baseball analogy, we don't know if success by 5 or more turns a hit into a home-run, or if instead the real world 'DM' instead has you roll damage against the ball field's hit points or something. In the end, mapping this benefit to actual performance is not going to be that simple.

It's a 12.5% increase in your chance of success at almost ANYTHING where there is both a noticeable chance that you'll succeed and a chance that you'll fail and where your abilities have any influence. The DC doesn't matter (advantage and disadvantage do change the %, but not by all that much and the % increase will often be higher if advantage or disadvantage applies as the variance is lower and a small flat increase is thus more significant).

And that 12.5% is the percentage of ATTEMPTS. Thus, to borrow someone else's example: Guidance doesn't increase your batting average from .300 to .3375, if we assume that each at bat is a single roll resolution against a DC then it increases your batting average from .300 to .425.

To have a .300 batting average you were rolling against a DC 15 points higher than your bonus, with guidance you make that 42.5% of the time.

If degree of success applies (as in beating the DC by some amount is a homer) then those extra hits are all homers, and if you were marginally competent prior to the spell, you are now winning the hitting triple crown by a laughable margin.

This is a very big deal.

Edited to add: At the extremes it's not 12.5%, but it is in many ways more important there, if you have less than a 20% chance of failure (rolling without advantage or disadvantage), then the % improvement starts to drop off, but that's simply because you now almost never fail at something that used to be chancy. Similarly, for a really unlikely to succeed event, say rolling against a DC 20 points higher than your bonus with disadvantage, you don't improve by 12.5%, you go from having a 0.25% chance of success to a 6.5% chance of success, so only half the "normal" improvement, but you've multiplied your number of successes over repeated attempts by 26.

[Maxilian]

The more i think about it, the less useful spells like Cure wounds look like, i mean... what i could do with Cure wounds, i could do with Goodberry.

BTW Vicious Mockery is a terryfing cantrip in RL, i mean... you know that sometimes you have those fits of anger, it will happen eventually, so... poor bastard whoever have to take it. (Also it can be an incredible weapon in the right hands, someone who plays sport, could use it in the other team best player -or just most players- to knock them out or just leave them in bad shape for the rest of the game -or even kill them)


Hmmm... it reminds me of something i heard of a philosopher, it says that he was so good at insulting people, that some of those even commited suicide, maybe he had Vicious mockery :P

[Nifft]

Until that day you get mad and accidentally turn your normal rage fit into a Vicious Mockery. Rolling a 4 on that d4 is enough to instantly knock out the average commoner. I just hope whoever has this isn't the kind of person to scold their server at a restaurant.

If I saw some who was abusive to a service industry worker, that person would be far more likely to get Vicious Mockery'd.

But you bring up a good point -- having an always-available firearm-equivalent might lead to some poor decision making, since we can't just leave our fully-loaded Cantrips at home when we go out drinking.


Prestidigitation is the only one that I'm 100% certain for taking so far.

[unusualsuspect]

Prestidigitation:

It does so much, and requires so little. With this and some basic training in constructing edible art, you could become a world-class chef... though for your sake, Private Chef would probably be less hassle for more money (up to 3 cubic feet of food at a time should be enough for private family or family + guest meals).

In that regard, it functions nearly as well as Goodberries does in all but severe survival situations (because relatively cheap healthy foods aren't going to be that difficult to obtain), and better in a lot of ways (Goodberries is 10 people a day, while Prestidigitation can be a lot more, depending on how quickly you can get 1 cubic foot of healthy food, and how quickly it can be eaten without negative consequences).

There are, of course, a thousand other uses of Prestidigitation, some of which have already been discussed, but its sheer versatility makes it a must-have, so moving on.

Mold Earth:

I can't begin to explain how incredibly useful this cantrip would be in construction, and for rural life. But there's more, if you want to do good: Go to every disaster area in existence with a crew, and build hundreds to thousands of temporary homes from the earth itself a day at a time with minimal extra equipment. Become a part of the Park Service, rotating as much as possible (a new park every few weeks), remaking each park's paths into pristine condition at roughly a path a day.

If you need some money, hire yourself out to landscapers, construction workers, excavators, and similar professionals.. They would love to pay half what they normally would for what will amount to at most 5 minutes of your time (but which could have taken hours, or even days, of manhours to do normally). It's not like you're just a human supershovel, either - you can shape the earth with insane speed. Landscapers would LOVE You.

Speak with Animals:

The utility would be amazing. The only real regret is that I'd never be able to eat animal meat again, but with Prestidigitation, I can enhance healthy food to be bacon-and-ice-cream flavored, so I don't miss out on much. I can't begin to imagine what behavioral scientists could learn if they had someone with Speak with Animals to translate for them.

[Ebon]

I'm going to go against the grain here, and pick Longstrider for my Level 1 spell and win every race I enter and become one of the fastest people alive. I think it's too limiting to just think about what would help you in your current life. Better to think what kind of life would you want?

I think the benefit of Guidance cannot be overstated. One way I like to think about it is as the equivalent of two or more ASIs in the stat you are currently testing. That means it turns all your 10s into 14s and 14s into 18s. That's pretty huge, even if it does last but a minute. Get yourself in the flow state on command.

I agree that Create Destroy Water would revolutionize Space Travel. Not having to take mass into orbit is huge, and water is fuel for fusion power. Goodberry would have its place too. Creating mass that substitutes for nutrition would be enormous for exploring space.

Personally though, I might go Green-Flame Blade and Mage Hand, and just be the first Jedi ;)

[Greywander]

Is this X-men
I was actually think about the X-Men when I made this post! The abilities you'd gain from Magic Initiate would make you similar to a mutant. It's certainly a cool thought, and might make for an interesting setting to play in.

All in all, I'm not really surprised to see Prestidigitation, Mending, and Goodberry showing up in a lot of people's lists. All of these have solid, practical applications to everyday life, and can be used to solve a variety of more unusual problems you might encounter. What surprises me is how popular Guidance seems to be. I initially wrote it off as being mostly mechanical within the game, but if we assumed it had a comparable effect of making you just a little bit better at everything, then it would probably be pretty good too.

I've also reconsidered my initial choice of Mage Hand. While being able to grab things from far away is cool, I was thinking I could also just use it as a third hand. However, it does require somatic components, which means I'm probably using one of my (free) hands to manipulate the mage hand. With Warcaster being a thing, I might be able to get skilled enough that I could manipulate the mage hand while holding something in both hands, but it's would likely never reach a true "third hand" status. Still not a bad choice, though.

Vicious Mockery would probably be the easiest damage cantrip to hide that you're attacking someone (less spooky for people around you, less likely to get in legal trouble), but then that can work against you if you're trying to intimidate potential attackers. In any case, this is my favorite damage cantrip in-game, so it would probably be my choice if I wanted a damage cantrip in real life. Then again, if you had to go up against, say, a vehicle (such as a car or tank), it wouldn't do you any good.

[Willie the Duck]

It's a 12.5% increase in your chance of success at almost ANYTHING where there is both a noticeable chance that you'll succeed and a chance that you'll fail and where your abilities have any influence. The DC doesn't matter (advantage and disadvantage do change the %, but not by all that much and the % increase will often be higher if advantage or disadvantage applies as the variance is lower and a small flat increase is thus more significant).

And that 12.5% is the percentage of ATTEMPTS. Thus, to borrow someone else's example: Guidance doesn't increase your batting average from .300 to .3375, if we assume that each at bat is a single roll resolution against a DC then it increases your batting average from .300 to .425.

To have a .300 batting average you were rolling against a DC 15 points higher than your bonus, with guidance you make that 42.5% of the time.

If degree of success applies (as in beating the DC by some amount is a homer) then those extra hits are all homers, and if you were marginally competent prior to the spell, you are now winning the hitting triple crown by a laughable margin.

This is a very big deal.

Edited to add: At the extremes it's not 12.5%, but it is in many ways more important there, if you have less than a 20% chance of failure (rolling without advantage or disadvantage), then the % improvement starts to drop off, but that's simply because you now almost never fail at something that used to be chancy. Similarly, for a really unlikely to succeed event, say rolling against a DC 20 points higher than your bonus with disadvantage, you don't improve by 12.5%, you go from having a 0.25% chance of success to a 6.5% chance of success, so only half the "normal" improvement, but you've multiplied your number of successes over repeated attempts by 26.

Well, I only got to the post-edited version where you ended up mostly agreeing. However, you missed the point I apparently forgot to make, for the most part, and that is this--it all depends on how much of the time you actually get a roll. The DMG has some exhaustive (but not exactly concrete, to the anger of a few people who seem to have rage-quit this section of the forum) language regarding how often one actually even bothers to roll. The answer is a vague, 'eh, wing it.' It's actually a pretty good set up for when a character in an adventure campaign should roll a success check (where many things they attempt should have success rates in the 5-95% range and a roughly binary success/fail outcome metric), but doesn't map to real life (particularly most careers and the like) all that well. So in the end, it is again how the DM of the real world interprets the skill and ability system. I suspect they would use a lot of 'do you have proficiency in ______? Okay, don't bother rolling, the outcome is...' in which case guidance wouldn't apply.


I was actually think about the X-Men when I made this post! The abilities you'd gain from Magic Initiate would make you similar to a mutant. It's certainly a cool thought, and might make for an interesting setting to play in.

Well, the setting will be important. If the world is now vaguely like Xanth, where everyone has a superpower and everyone knows that, then you don't have to work on keeping your abilities secret, which changes your (at least my) choices. If you're the only one with superpowers, well then they better be subtle, or the rest of your life is dictated one way or the other--on the run or in a top secret lab being poked and prodded (I guess the closest fiction is the 70s Hulk tv series). The X-men scenario seems like splitting the difference.

[Oramac]

BTW Vicious Mockery is a terryfing cantrip in RL, i mean... you know that sometimes you have those fits of anger, it will happen eventually, so... poor bastard whoever have to take it. (Also it can be an incredible weapon in the right hands, someone who plays sport, could use it in the other team best player -or just most players- to knock them out or just leave them in bad shape for the rest of the game -or even kill them)


Hmmm... it reminds me of something i heard of a philosopher, it says that he was so good at insulting people, that some of those even commited suicide, maybe he had Vicious mockery :P


But you bring up a good point -- having an always-available firearm-equivalent might lead to some poor decision making, since we can't just leave our fully-loaded Cantrips at home when we go out drinking.


Vicious Mockery would probably be the easiest damage cantrip to hide that you're attacking someone (less spooky for people around you, less likely to get in legal trouble), but then that can work against you if you're trying to intimidate potential attackers. In any case, this is my favorite damage cantrip in-game, so it would probably be my choice if I wanted a damage cantrip in real life. Then again, if you had to go up against, say, a vehicle (such as a car or tank), it wouldn't do you any good.

Keep in mind, one can choose whether or not to use Vicious Mockery. Assuming it works IRL the same it works in-game, you don't just run around causing damage when you insult people. You must choose to use the cantrip, AND the target still gets to make a saving throw.

[PeteNutButter]

Keep in mind, one can choose whether or not to use Vicious Mockery. Assuming it works IRL the same it works in-game, you don't just run around causing damage when you insult people. You must choose to use the cantrip, AND the target still gets to make a saving throw.

One could also choose to eat as healthy as possible, be 100% productive, and be nice all the time. Real life is a lot harder for people than an RPG. Part of the question is how well you know the cantrip. If it's as reflexive as moving an arm, you'll risk letting it slip out every time you stub our toe or some such. If it's that easy how angry does one have to get before they let it slip into their rant? Naturally most players would cry foul play if their DM made them make a wisdom save to prevent them from doing some sort of self harm, but in real life people fail those wisdom saves all the time.

You, and I, and even everyone on this forum might be the stable enough type to avoid that most of the time, but anyone whose ever been angry enough to consider throwing a punch might want to avoid having the ability to spew words that literally hurt.

EDIT: That'd be a pretty depressing adventure. "Ok, make a wisdom check to get out of bed. You failed. Make a wisdom check to call in sick for work. Ooh failed that one too, hope you don't get fired. Alright how about breakfast. Eek, you should really have point more points into wisdom because Vodka for breakfast isn't a great start to the day..."

[Quoxis]

That'd be a pretty depressing adventure. "Ok, make a wisdom check to get out of bed. You failed. Make a wisdom check to call in sick for work. Ooh failed that one too, hope you don't get fired. Alright how about breakfast. Eek, you should really have point more points into wisdom because Vodka for breakfast isn't a great start to the day..."

Clinical depression, the new exciting family game by PeteNutButter.
Preorder now for a free set of razor blades and sleeping pills!

[Willie the Duck]

Clinical depression, the new exciting family game by PeteNutButter.
Preorder now for a free set of razor blades and sleeping pills!

This is what happened to the Papers and Paychecks game mentioned in that comic in the 1e DMG once White Wolf got ahold of the concept. :smallbiggrin:

[Cybren]

I think it's a mistake to use the actual numerical stats for most of the spells when applying them to real life. In real life, probabilities don't only occur across discrete 5 percentage point increments, fights don't consist of two people taking "simultaneous" six second turns that nonetheless are resolved independently, and people don't have ablative HP scores that cause them to suddenly die at 0HP.

It makes a lot more sense to translate the narrative function and intent- shield lets you react quickly to block an attack but isn't infallible. Firebolt, for example, would probably light peoples clothes on fire even though the rules of the spell says it can't- that very clearly seems like a gameplay consideration and not meant to reflect some aspect of the spell

[PeteNutButter]

Clinical depression, the new exciting family game by PeteNutButter.
Preorder now for a free set of razor blades and sleeping pills!

LMAO!:smallbiggrin:

You could branch out to all sorts of other struggles.
DM: Ok now you're homeless since you can't pay your rent after being fired. You get a level of exhaustion every night you sleep on the streets, but it won't outright kill you so it caps out at exhaustion level 3.
PC: That's not bad. I can deal with that. *Flips to exhaustion* Damn disadvantage on like... everything. At least I'm not dying.
DM: Well you aren't dying to the streets, but the thugs that like to beat up homeless people might get you. After 3 days of doing nothing but drinking (at this point the DC is so high you can't succeed) roll Initiative.
PC: *Rolls* Sweet! Nat 20! I'm gonna hit the leader in the face with my vodka bottle.
DM: You forgot your disadvantage on ability checks.
PC: Oh yeah, *rolls* I'm on 3. ...This is kind of dark. Do I at least get any exp for surviving on the streets? I could really use a level.
DM: You have to slay monsters to get exp.
PC: There are no monsters in the real world.
DM: Well you can slay people.

PC2: This adventure is too railroady. All I do every session is go sit in this cubicle where I make DC 3 Int checks. I literally can't fail these with my character's 15 int, unless you give me that -4 hangover modifier.
DM: Maybe, if you'd listened to your 4th grade math teacher and applied yourself.
PC2: Damn, I shouldn't have put that in my backstory. Is PC1 being jumped outside my office? I want to help him.
DM: He is but remember you might lose your job if you run out to help him after those two hangover days. Losing his job is what got PC1 started in his homeless alcoholic homicidal state.
PC2: Dang, I guess I'll stay in my cubical. Sorry PC1.
PC1: It's ok save yourself. You brought the chips.
All this makes me think guidance is really the cantrip to go with.

EDIT: Lengthened spoiler

[hymer]

All this makes me think guidance is really the cantrip to go with.
"Now roll a Con save to see if you can muster the focus to Concentrate. Nope. Now you wish you had a friend with Resistance, huh?"

[nickl_2000]

BIG SNIPS
PC: There are no monsters in the real world.

I adamantly disagree with this PCs statement. (genius spoiler though!)

[PeteNutButter]

I adamantly disagree with this PCs statement. (genius spoiler though!)

Haha! True enough. It's mostly just a set up for the "slay people" punchline.:smalltongue:

[Segev]

PC2: Is PC1 being jumped outside my office? I want to help him.
DM: He is but remember you might lose your job if you run out to help him after those two hangover days. Losing his job is what got PC1 started in his homeless alcoholic homicidal state.

This reminded me of the first Incredibles movie.

[Ventruenox]

I had originally planned on writing a rebuttal condemning the use of magics in the real world, but Willie the Duck beat me to it with insight to human psychology. You would be considered a freak and studied or someone would find leverage on you to use your powers for their own purposes. Either way, the outcome would not be pleasant. Then a secondary idea hit me: hide it in plain sight.

I'll borrow from L Ron Hubbard's alleged quote "If you want to make millions, start a religion." I will also steal Benny Hinn's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Hinn) playbook to be a charlatan faith healer. The thing is, with a couple cantrips and just enough spin on the truth, I could pull it off. I won't claim to be able to heal the sick, but will make tours of the ER and be on hand to stabilize the dying. Claiming that is not done with them, I create a convert for life. I give credit to the medical professionals for the actual healing, the goal is to win the faith. Further show that [insert deity] works through me by manifesting minor miracles. Make the ground shake around hecklers, speak the sacred texts with a booming voice, and deliver the "Give me a sign!" on demand. Once they have checkbooks out, I can order the wealthiest among them to "Donate!"

Let the skeptics prove me a fraud. I do this, and I [i]am a fraud. I get paid though. I can also flaunt my magic as much as I want. By claiming that the power comes from [insert deity], I can save a life or two, and inspire faith. I phrase the message right, I may even be able to inspire some peace.

Yes, I know I'm a horrible person and will go to hell for this.

tl/dr:
Be a Televangelist with

Spare the Dying
Thaumaturgy
Command

[Segev]

This is my favorite part of your whole plan:

Once they have checkbooks out, I can order the wealthiest among them to "Donate!"


That is a beautiful use of command.

[smcmike]

The real question with guidance is how often you roll checks. My job is largely based upon output. If I can cast guidance as I sit down and get 12% more done every day, that would totally be worth it. That’s not quite the same as improving a baseball player’s at-bats, though, is it?



I'm going to go against the grain here, and pick Longstrider for my Level 1 spell and win every race I enter and become one of the fastest people alive.

How fast are you currently? If you’re an average schlub like me, Longstrider won’t even get you close to Olympic time.



I think it's too limiting to just think about what would help you in your current life

I thought that was the entire point of the exercise. I don’t want to become a stage magician or save lives in a trauma ward. I would very much like to be able to easily clean or fix things are my house. Running a bit faster or understanding people when I travel would be nice too.

[Coretex]

Prestidigitation and Goodberry together make a hell of a combo if we aren't following restrictions. I like to go camping, and not having to worry about food nor nutrition would be an incredible boon. Plus that 1hp in case someone has a fall and would otherwise be incapacitated.

Sticking to lists:
Prestidigitation (because all of the reasons)
Message: It's an untraceable short range walky talkie that can only be heard by the recipient. You can even just send constant bursts of nothing so you can hear from the other person. Fantastic for carrying on a secret conversation about anything (the boss's boring meeting perhaps).
Feather Fall: A group parachute for any situation. I would love to go Hang Gliding, this makes it perfectly safe! Day to day just jump off a building for fun to save time in the elevator.

[Avigor]

Goodberry is beyond awesome, would save me soooooo much money.
Mending would also be great for saving money.
My second cantrip would depend on how RAW it is; if I could unfreeze snow and ice with Shape Water, I'd take that (I HATE shoveling!), but otherwise I'd go with Druidcraft for accurate weather predictions and instantly lighting the grill.

[OvisCaedo]

I feel like a lot of them would turn out very awkward in real life. Mending is very restricted in what it works on, and something like Message is already... kind of laughable in-universe with how spell components work, and would be completely out of line in real life. Lets you whisper a message to someone! But requires you to also be constantly waving your hands around and loudly speaking the same incantation again every six seconds.

[Sigreid]

I've no interest in using my magic powers for wealth and power so I'd go for things that make my life easier. Unseen servant to clean my house. Prestidigitation for a lot of little uses. Druidcraft would be great for knowing the weather. Come to think of it, druid craft could let you make money without fame just by selling accurate weather forecasts to the t.v. guy.

[Quoxis]

Message: It's an untraceable short range walky talkie that can only be heard by the recipient. You can even just send constant bursts of nothing so you can hear from the other person. Fantastic for carrying on a secret conversation about anything (the boss's boring meeting perhaps).


Only if you assume your boss won’t mind you performing weird gestures and incantations while he’s talking - message has v s m components.

[Desteplo]

Minor illusion: way easier to speak using images and sounds for me.

Mage hand: minor telekinesis has been a long time favorite

Find familiar: an intelligent animal spirit you can use to play board games no one else ever wants to play? Yes please

These are usually my auto picks for any and all wizards anyway (usually go gnome)

[jaappleton]

Healing Word
I have 4 little boys. This needs no explanation.


Mending
See above


Guidance
I need help with Perception checks to find where the kids left the PS4 controller.

[nickl_2000]

Healing Word
I have 4 little boys. This needs no explanation.


Mending
See above


Guidance
I need help with Perception checks to find where the kids left the PS4 controller.

LOL, as a father of 5 boy (ages 9 - 1) you make some very, very solid points. However, I would suggest prestidigitation to avoid the "this food taste nasty" fight with veggies and the mess from playing in the dirt/sand/mud/grass/the rest of dinner.

[jaappleton]

LOL, as a father of 5 boy (ages 9 - 1) you make some very, very solid points. However, I would suggest prestidigitation to avoid the "this food taste nasty" fight with veggies and the mess from playing in the dirt/sand/mud/grass/the rest of dinner.

If I had the third cantrip option, that'd be it. Definitely.

Fourth would be Mold Earth because screw yardwork.

[Ebon]

How fast are you currently? If you’re an average schlub like me, Longstrider won’t even get you close to Olympic time.


10 more feet of walking distance, compared to everyone else at 30 feet, means I'm 33.3% faster than everyone else. I compared this to Expeditious Retreat, and while it gives you more speed as a bonus action, the shorter duration of 10 minutes is surpassed by Longstrider's 1 hour time frame. No concentration check for Longstrider either.

Considering many races are decided by a fraction of a second, 33.3% faster is going to upset most race margins. I could also cast it on another person. 1 hour of superhuman speed on anyone in the World Cup could probably decide the match.

[JackPhoenix]

Find familiar: an intelligent animal spirit you can use to play board games no one else ever wants to play? Yes please

Except the "intelligent" part. Familiar uses all the statistics of a normal animal of its kind, including intelligence.


10 more feet of walking distance, compared to everyone else at 30 feet, means I'm 33.3% faster than everyone else. I compared this to Expeditious Retreat, and while it gives you more speed as a bonus action, the shorter duration of 10 minutes is surpassed by Longstrider's 1 hour time frame. No concentration check for Longstrider either.

Considering many races are decided by a fraction of a second, 33.3% faster is going to upset most race margins. I could also cast it on another person. 1 hour of superhuman speed on anyone in the World Cup could probably decide the match.

It's not 33,3% faster unless you walk exactly at that speed (most people don't). It's 1,66'/sec faster, which isn't that great. And it's far from superhuman. It'll make a difference, but only if you're top-tier athlete already.

Expeditious Retreat actually improves your running speed by 50%.

[Segev]

Expeditious Retreat actually improves your running speed by 50%.

I'm not 100% sure on dash/running rules, so please explain the correct calculation if I'm wrong here, but doesn't expeditious retreat double your running speed if you're flat-out running?

As your normal move/action, you Dash, and then expeditious retreat lets you Dash again as a bonus action. Normal running is therefore your Dash speed, and so if all you're doing is running, you can now Dash twice in the time you usually Dash once. (Rogues can do this without the spell, incidentally.)

Am I misunderstanding how running works in 5e?

[sightlessrealit]

I'm not 100% sure on dash/running rules, so please explain the correct calculation if I'm wrong here, but doesn't expeditious retreat double your running speed if you're flat-out running?

As your normal move/action, you Dash, and then expeditious retreat lets you Dash again as a bonus action. Normal running is therefore your Dash speed, and so if all you're doing is running, you can now Dash twice in the time you usually Dash once. (Rogues can do this without the spell, incidentally.)

Am I misunderstanding how running works in 5e?

Normal movement, than dash as an action, than dash again with bonus action you go from 60 feet max on a turn to 90.

[Ebon]

I'm in good shape, but that doesn't matter to an internet discussion.

To find out for myself if Expeditious Retreat or Longstrider would get me further over the course of an hour, I calculated the following:

Human Walking speed according to D&D = 30 feet per 6 seconds.

“When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn. The increase equals your speed, after applying any modifiers. With a speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you dash. Any increase or decrease to your speed changes this additional movement by the same amount. If your speed of 30 feet is reduced to 15 feet, for instance, you can move up to 30 feet this turn if you dash.”

Human Dash speed = 60 feet per 6 seconds. Or 10 feet per second. 3600 seconds in an hour. 36,000 feet covered over the course of an hour. 36,000 / 5,280 = 6.82 miles per hour. This is considerably less than human maximum potential or even an average runner at 10-15 mph. But this is the math D&D gives us to work with in the combat rules.


Normal movement, than dash as an action, than dash again with bonus action you go from 60 feet max on a turn to 90.


Expeditious Retreat gives a Bonus Action Dash of an extra 30 feet per turn. Or 15 feet per second for 10 minutes. Topping out at 10.23 mph, reverts to normal human speed for the remaining 50 minutes.

15 ft/sec x 600 seconds (10 minutes) + 10 ft/sec x 3000 seconds (50 min) = 39,000 feet covered. Averages out to a speed of 7.39 mph

Longstrider adds 10 feet to base walking speed (now 40 ft per second), and gets doubled by Dash = 80 feet per 6 seconds = 13.333 feet per second. 3,600 seconds in an hour. 48,000 feet covered over the course of an hour. 48,000 / 5,280 = 9.1 miles per hour.

So although Expeditious Retreat is faster in the short term, over the full course of the spell, Longstrider will actually get me further faster.

[sightlessrealit]

I'm in good shape, but that doesn't matter to an internet discussion.

To find out for myself if Expeditious Retreat or Longstrider would get me further over the course of an hour, I calculated the following:

Human Walking speed according to D&D = 30 feet per 6 seconds.

“When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn. The increase equals your speed, after applying any modifiers. With a speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you dash. Any increase or decrease to your speed changes this additional movement by the same amount. If your speed of 30 feet is reduced to 15 feet, for instance, you can move up to 30 feet this turn if you dash.”

Human Dash speed = 60 feet per 6 seconds. Or 10 feet per second. 3600 seconds in an hour. 36,000 feet covered over the course of an hour. 36,000 / 5,280 = 6.82 miles per hour. This is considerably less than human maximum potential or even an average runner at 10-15 mph. But this is the math D&D gives us to work with in the combat rules.




Expeditious Retreat gives a Bonus Action Dash of an extra 30 feet per turn. Or 15 feet per second for 10 minutes. Topping out at 10.23 mph, reverts to normal human speed for the remaining 50 minutes.

15 ft/sec x 600 seconds (10 minutes) + 10 ft/sec x 3000 seconds (50 min) = 39,000 feet covered. Averages out to a speed of 7.39 mph

Longstrider adds 10 feet to base walking speed (now 40 ft per second), and gets doubled by Dash = 80 feet per 6 seconds = 13.333 feet per second. 3,600 seconds in an hour. 48,000 feet covered over the course of an hour. 48,000 / 5,280 = 9.1 miles per hour.

So although Expeditious Retreat is faster in the short term, over the full course of the spell, Longstrider will actually get me further faster.

I was simply giving an answer to someone who wasn't sure on how dashing works. I have no interest in this discussion on which is better in the long run

[JackPhoenix]

I'm not 100% sure on dash/running rules, so please explain the correct calculation if I'm wrong here, but doesn't expeditious retreat double your running speed if you're flat-out running?

As your normal move/action, you Dash, and then expeditious retreat lets you Dash again as a bonus action. Normal running is therefore your Dash speed, and so if all you're doing is running, you can now Dash twice in the time you usually Dash once. (Rogues can do this without the spell, incidentally.)

Am I misunderstanding how running works in 5e?

Normal movement for a human is 30'/turn. With Dash, it's doubled to 60' turn. Bonus Action Dash from Expeditious Retreat adds another 30' (Dash adds your speed, which is 30', it doesn't actually double your total movement... the result is the same if you Dash only once per turn, though, which may be the cause of your confusion), for 90'/turn. 90 is 50% increase over 60.

TL;DR: your movement allowance for a turn is a different thing from your speed.


Snip

Only matters in D&D, not when translated to real life. People aren't limited to moving 30/60 feet in 6 seconds intervals without external influences in real life. Your running (or "dashing", whatever that means) speed isn't just double your normal walking speed either.

Longstrider increases your walking speed by 1,67 feet per second, no matter how fast or slow it originally was. To calculate its effect on your running ("dashing"), you'd need to find out what's your normal walking speed, then figure how much faster you are when you're running, and multiply that 1,67' figure by your "run speed multiplier"
Expeditious Retreat improves your running speed by 50%, no matter what it was before, thought it does nothing for your walking speed, though at that point we'd need to define what counts as walking compared to "dashing".
Sure, the first is better in long-term, because it last 6 times as long, but people can't run at full speed for a whole hour. Or even 10 minutes.

[Willie the Duck]

Human Dash speed = 60 feet per 6 seconds. Or 10 feet per second. 3600 seconds in an hour. 36,000 feet covered over the course of an hour. 36,000 / 5,280 = 6.82 miles per hour. This is considerably less than human maximum potential or even an average runner at 10-15 mph. But this is the math D&D gives us to work with in the combat rules.

Given that a semi-experienced (2nd level) roguish character can get a 50% increase on this speed (by picking up a bonus-action dash action), but an expert in athletics does not, I think we can say that some things are modeled for combat benefit and not realism.

[furby076]

Mending only works on a "single break or tear". Most ways of destroying a hard drive involve a lot more damage than that. Also, arguably the spell can't recover magnetic charges, so depending on the type of damage, the data may be unrecoverable even if the spell can make the drive operational again.

If you rule that mending can work on an object with multiple breaks or tears, there's still the problem that it only affects one break or tear per casting. Restoring any complex piece of hardware or anything that shattered could take years of effort. Fixing anything with an integrated circuit could take lifetimes (and a powerful microscope).

where do dyou get mending cannot recover magnetic charges? it doesn't cover that topic either way. Magnetic charge is a physical thing, just like matter (e = mc2), so really, as far as magic is concerned, it doesn't care if something is energy or not..it's all energy, it's all physical.
Each casting of mending works on a single break or tear....cast it multiple times and you are good. In the time i used it with different DMs, never had one say "you can't mend the broken glass" or "shattered sword".

[furby076]

To anyone saying goodberry:
That’s rice. Costs basically nothing for kilograms of food that’s bland but nourishing. You can also buy gallons worth of chicken stock etc. for equally nothing per serving, so each and everyone of you saying „i‘d live off of goodberries flavored with prestidigitation to save hunderds of dollars“ is a hypocrite.

Also: You can eat rice and not starve doing so, but it’s not exactly healthy. Game limitations only make it reasonable not to include rules for cases of adventurers eating nothing but goodberries for months, but would that work the same irl?

For me, it’d be prestidigitation (i hate cleaning), gust (i hate heat and in a bind, pushing people around is useful) and find familiar (a small pet you can banish to another dimension whenever it’s convenient and through the eyes of which you can see).

hypocrite ? That's a bit of strong, and incorrect language. What you meant to say "is wrong".

Actually, they aren't. Rice only provides you with a single type of nutrient. Eat rice and only rice and yea, you will eventually die of malnourishment. On the other hand, goodberry is part of a well balanced diet. Bland yes, but it's got all you need to survive. It's more akin to a meal replacement.

[Kane0]

Goodberry juice
Goodberry sorbet
Goodberry pie
Etc

And even then plenty of folk seems to be able to deal with meal replacements.

[Quoxis]

Actually, they aren't. Rice only provides you with a single type of nutrient. Eat rice and only rice and yea, you will eventually die of malnourishment. On the other hand, goodberry is part of a well balanced diet. Bland yes, but it's got all you need to survive. It's more akin to a meal replacement.

Did... did you read the post or only the first few sentences (because that’s pretty much all you’re referring to)?

[Knaight]

Human Dash speed = 60 feet per 6 seconds. Or 10 feet per second. 3600 seconds in an hour. 36,000 feet covered over the course of an hour. 36,000 / 5,280 = 6.82 miles per hour. This is considerably less than human maximum potential or even an average runner at 10-15 mph. But this is the math D&D gives us to work with in the combat rules.

The context for that number is people carrying equipment moving over questionable ground during a fight, trying to keep their defenses up. It's not a great analog for running in more normal conditions, and is a pretty good indication that longstrider should probably give more than 5/3 ft/s in the context of that more normal running. Scaling that up with the 6.82 and considering an average runner gets pretty close to 3 feet per second, which has the benefit of being a nice round number.

[Kane0]

I operate in metric anyways, so Longstrider would be pretty useless to me.

[oxybe]

Level 1 -
goodberries
Nourishes and sustains me for a day and cuts my food bill by a good chunk. As food is my third biggest expense for the month, next to rent & utilities, this is great.

Level 0 -
Guidance
General competency upgrade is nice.

Mending
Gods I would love to be able to just snap my fingers qnd fix a set of good headphones that's not working or a power cable that's not charging, or whatever. Even being able to dumpster dive or pickup broken coffee tables or shelves and fix them, for my own use or resell as some extra spending money, would be nice.

Ideally it would be goodberries, mending & prestidigitation but no spell list has that mix unfortunately

[Willie the Duck]

Did... did you read the post or only the first few sentences (because that’s pretty much all you’re referring to)?

I'm guessing they did. Yes, you mentioned that nothing but rice is not exactly healthy, but you didn't actually provide an argument that goodberry (which states that it provides a day's nourishment) somehow isn't nutritious, while rice and chicken broth clearly isn't. Combined with a rather... interesting understanding of what the word hypocrite means, and yeah, I can see why they aren't buying what you are selling.

[8wGremlin]

So in the first instance:

Druid Magic Initiate (Guidance, Mending, and Goodberry)
Wizard Initiate (Prestidigitation, Mending, Find Familiar)

If I'm allowed to pick from all the spell lists then ( Prestidigitation, Guidance, Find Familiar) these are all things that I can not do easily at the moment.

Find familiar is I feel and interesting spell, I'd like to know some "the Rules Of Real Life" RORL -
* when a familiar is carrying something, and is dispelled to the demi-plane, can they take what they carry with them?
* when commanded to bring back the object from the demi-plane the next time they are summoned could they?
* if this item was a working and recording video camera, what would they see?
* could a living creature survive in the demi-plane, and for how long?

with these answers you can become the best smuggler/safe transporter of goods
Also familiars that can fly, allow you to do drone like deliveries, as well as act as surveillance
A crow/raven familiar can talk and deliver messages


----

2nd part - we get to pick a race and have the magic initiate for free, sign me up!

again we need to know RORL

The changeling race - can it transform in to an avarial elf, or a aarakocra and get flight speed, or Triton and get Amphibious
if so then this is very potent!

if not then Variant Human with the free feat and the Druid Initiate package would be a strong choice.

if RORL allows "Quicksmithing feat" from Plane Shift Kaladesh.

if not then Ritual Caster (wizard)

* rituals would include "find familiar" and "unseen servant"

Both feats allow the learning and sharing of rituals amongst those that have the feats, so this would increase the versatility and usefulness the more you shared.