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kglusing
2018-06-26, 08:20 AM
Good morning everybody,

One of the backers for our Kickstarter Campaign has requested that we add Physical Skills as an option in Pathfinder that I wanted to do some playtesting on (if anybody's interested in trying it out and providing feedback).

His Goal: To create more skill options for Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution.

I've put together a first pass on these that meet three criteria I set.

1) They function in the same way existing skills are expected to.

2) They provide a new way to raise your skill in aspects of the game that are currently handled by ability checks.

3) They can be added into a campaign easily, or utilized by a single player via feat investment.

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Physical Skills
Collaboration by Iokennoron McComber, provided during our Kickstarter. Thank you!

The skills available to all characters deal with fairly common interactions in the world, from watching for an ambush, to riding a mount, to knowing the local mayor of the town three counties over. Some skills, however, require a more direct focus and approach. They aren’t feats (though certainly, those trained in them can perform amazing feats at times), nor are they tied to specific classes or races, but they do require training and improvement over time. These are physical skills.

Acquiring Physical Skills
Physical skills are acquired in much the same way as traditional skills. Like traits, physical skills can be made available to all characters as early as 1st level, or an individual character can choose the Physical Skill Training feat to gain access to them on his own.

Physical Class Skills and Skill Ranks per Level
The physical class skills (and the key ability for each skill are) Aerobics (Dex), Cardio (Con), Endurance (Con), Flexibility (Dex), Power (Str), and Weightlifting (Str). Table: Physical Skill Summary lists which skills are available to each class. For classes not listed here, use a similar class and the guidelines below to make your best determination.
When physical skills are incorporated into the game, each character gains a number of physical skill ranks (PSR) per level based on their class. A character can also spend the free skill rank from their favored class on a physical skill.

Fighters and Unchained Monks: 4 ranks per level.
Full Base Attack Bonus and Monks: 3 ranks per level.
3/4 Base Attack Bonus and Heirs Apparent: 2 ranks per level.
1/2 Base Attack Bonus: 1 rank per level.


Physical Skill Training (Combat Feat)
Benefit: Choose one physical skill—Aerobics, Cardio, Endurance, Flexibility, Power, or Weightlifting. That skill becomes a class skill for you and you gain ranks in it equal to your base attack bonus. When your base attack increases, you gain another rank in the chosen skill.
In addition, you can make untrained physical skill checks using Aerobics, Endurance, and Weightlifting.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. It’s benefits do not stack. Each time you gain this feat, select a new physical skill to gain as a class skill. Some classes gain additional benefits (see exceptional physical skill, below).

Exceptional Physical Skill
Some classes are exceptionally well versed in physical skills. While fighters and monks gain the most direct physical skill ranks (PSR), these classes can use traditional skill ranks to increase physical skills instead.
Barbarian, Cavalier, Kineticist, Monk, Ninja, Rogue, and Vigilante.

Physical Skill Descriptions
At their base, physical skills function in the same way as other skills. Characters spend physical skill ranks to gain them as they level, and those which are class skills grant that character a +3 to his checks. Cardio, Flexibility, and Power are trained only skills, while Aerobics, Endurance, and Weightlifting can be attempted by anybody with limited results. Meanwhile, Aerobics, Flexibility, and Weightlifting all suffer from armor check penalties.

Aerobics (Dex; Armor Check Penalty)
Aerobics cover general fitness activities such as stretching, light jogging, and work outs like yoga and tai chi. You can also use Aerobics in place of Acrobatics and Perception checks to perform actions that require exceptional hand-eye coordination, like throwing tiny objects or batting them away.
Check: Stretching helps to improve your mobility and increases blood flow to your brain and other muscles. The table below gives the DC s for various tasks that require Aerobics checks.




Aerobics


DC
Task


15
Light stretching. You can take 10 on Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution-based skill checks for 8 hours.


20
Light workout. Increase your movement speed by 5 ft. for 5 minutes.


20
Moderate stretching. You can take 10 on your next Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution check made within 1 minute.


25
Moderate workout. You gain a +5 circumstance bonus on your next skill check made within 1 minute. You must have at least 1 rank in the chosen skill.


25
Thorough stretching. You gain a +1 circumstance bonus on attacks made with thrown weapons and attacks made against creatures and objects at least 1 size smaller than you for 8 hours.


30
Thorough workout. Choose 1 skill. You gain a +5 circumstance bonus on all skill checks made with the chosen skill for 8 hours.




Action: Light aerobics requires 1 minute of stretching or working out. Moderate aerobics requires at least 2 minutes, and thorough aerobics requires at least 5 minutes.
Try Again: Yes, but you are fatigued for the duration of the new check and for up to 1 minute per failure afterward. Each time you fail by 5 or more, you take a cumulative -2 penalty to Dexterity for 1 minute. This penalty can be removed with a successful Heal check (DC 15). If this penalty would reduce your Dexterity modifier to -1 or lower, the penalty lasts for 8 hours instead and cannot be healed without the use of magic.
Special: If you have the Acrobatic or Athletic feat, you get a +2 bonus on all Aerobics checks.
Untrained: If you have no ranks in aerobics, light aerobics requires at least 5 minutes of stretching or working out, and you cannot attempt moderate or thorough aerobics.

Cardio (Con; Trained Only)
Cardio training is any exercise that increases heart rate, gets one breathing heavier, and directly increases the potential of the cardiovascular system (heart, lungs, etc). Cardio consists of a variety of things, from short interval to long base mile workouts. Cardio checks can be made in place of Constitution checks during forced marching or when running long distances.
Check: Cardio checks help you to run in short bursts, travel longer during the day, and remain under water for longer than average. They can also give you a minor bump in the usefulness of some class features.

Extended Running: You can push yourself to run for another round. The DC for this check is 10 + the number of rounds you have already run beyond your Constitution score.
Extended Duration: You can push the limits of a class feature measure in rounds, such as bardic music or rage. The DC for this check is 20 + the number of rounds you have pushed the duration beyond its maximum.
Hold Breath: You can hold your breath for another round or use a standard action without it costing you 1 round of holding your breath. The DC for this check is 10 + the number of rounds you have already run beyond your Constitution score.
Increased Resources: Once per day, you can attempt a DC 25 Cardio check to gain 1 extra point in a resource pool you possess, such as grit or ki.
Improved Toughness: Once per day, you can attempt a DC 15 Cardio check to gain temporary hit points equal to your level + your Constitution modifier. These temporary hit points last for up to 8 hours. You can take 10 on this check.
Action: Cardio checks are typically made as part of another action. If used during combat, gaining an extra resource point or maintaining a per round ability is a move action, and gaining temporary hit points is a standard action.
Try Again: When you fail a check to run, you must stop running and can only take a single move action each round for 1 minute. Failing a forced march check deals 1d6 nonlethal damage and fatigues you while that damage remains.
Special: If you have the Toughness feat, you get a +2 bonus on all Cardio checks.

Endurance (Con)
Endurance refers specifically to any training that allows you to “endure” physically strenuous situations longer. Endurance checks are made in place of Constitution checks to avoid drowning or dying of starvation or thirst. They can also be made in place of Acrobatics checks to reduce falling damage.
Check: You can make an Endurance check in place of other checks or saves in the following situations.


Swim checks made to resist nonlethal damage from exhaustion.
Constitution checks made to avoid nonlethal damage from starvation or thirst.
Fortitude saves made to avoid nonlethal damage from hot or cold environments.
Fortitude saves made to resist damage from suffocation.

In addition, when you roll a Reflex save, you can also make an Endurance check as an immediate action against the same DC. If you succeed, reduce any damage you take by an amount equal to your ranks in this skill. This can reduce the damage you take to 0.
Action: Endurance checks are typically made as part of another action. Substituting an Endurance check for a saving throw is an immediate action.
Try Again: Failing any of the checks listed above comes with their own penalties.
Special: If you have the Endurance feat, you get a +2 bonus on all Endurance skill checks.

Flexibility (Dex; Armor Check Penalty; Trained Only)
Flexibility checks lengthen and stretch muscles, helping to prevent injury, back pain, and balance problems. A flexible individual more easily achieves full range of motion with its limbs, which can improve athletic performance and function, such as reaching, bending, or stooping during daily tasks.
Check: You can make a Flexibility check in the following situations.


In place of Climb and Swim checks.
To avoid penalties for squeezing for 1 round.
To replace CMD while grappled or pinned.
Fortitude saves made to resist damage from suffocation.


In addition, when you roll a Reflex save, you can also make a Flexibility check as an immediate action against the same DC. If you succeed, reduce any damage you take by an amount equal to your ranks in this skill. This can reduce the damage you take to 0.
Action: Flexibility checks are typically made as part of another action.
Try Again: You cannot try the same Flexibility check more than once per minute unless you take 1 round to loosen up (DC 10 + your character level + your Dexterity modifier). Each time you fail the same check, you take a cumulative -1 penalty to your next attempt.
If you fail a flexibility check by 5 or more, you may become stuck (if squeezing) or dislocate something. If you dislocate something, you are fatigued and take a -2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. A DC 15 heal check deals 1 point of damage and removes the penalties. The fatigue ends 1 minute later.
Special: When unarmored and unencumbered, you get a +2 bonus on all Flexibility checks.
Untrained: If you are not trained in Flexibility, you cannot attempt to reduce damage as part of a Reflex save.

Power (Str; Trained Only)
Power is the force and speed with which you exert yourself in any physical task. Strength is an important factor, but even an individual with little strength can improve its exertion over time.
Check: You can make a Power check in the following situations.


In place of Disable Device checks, but only to break objects.
In place of CMB to inflict damage when grappling.
In place of CMB when performing a bull rush, reposition, sunder, or trip combat maneuver.

In addition, when you roll a Will save, you can make a Power skill check against the same DC as an immediate action. If you succeed, you gain a +2 bonus on your Will save.
Action: Power skill checks are typically made as part of another action.
Try Again: Failing any of the checks listed above comes with their own penalties.
Special: If you have the Iron Will feat, you get a +2 bonus on all Power skill checks.

Weightlifting (Str; Armor Check Penalty)
Lifting weights trains your body to lift even greater weight over time. Long term benefits include preventing disease, weight management, and increased focus.
Check: The table below gives the DC s for various tasks that require Weightlifting checks.

Weightlifting


DC
Task


10+
Warm Up. Increase your effective Strength score by 1 +1 for every 5 by which you beat the DC. This lasts for up to 8 hours and only applies when calculating your maximum carrying capacity.


20
Light workout. Increase your movement speed by 5 ft. for 5 minutes.


20
Moderate lifting. You can take 10 on your next Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution check made within 1 minute.


25
Moderate workout. Reduce your encumbrance by 1 category for 8 hours (heavy load to medium, medium to light).


25
Thorough lifting. You deal +1 damage with melee weapons, thrown weapons, and composite bows for 5 minutes.


In addition, after a moderate or thorough Weightlifting check, when you roll a Fortitude or Will save, you can make a Weightlifting skill check against the same DC as an immediate action. If you succeed, you gain a +2 bonus on your save.

Action: Light weightlifting requires that you spend 1 minute working out or lifting at least your max carry. Moderate weightlifting requires at least 2 minutes and a load heavy enough to lift, and thorough weightlifting requires at least 5 minutes and a load heavy enough to push or drag.
Try Again: Yes, but you are fatigued for the duration of the new check and for up to 1 minute per failure afterward. Each time you fail by 5 or more, you take a cumulative -2 penalty to Strength for 1 minute. This penalty can be removed with a successful Heal check (DC 15). If this penalty would reduce your Strength modifier to -1 or lower, the penalty lasts for 8 hours instead and cannot be healed without the use of magic.
Special: When unarmored and unencumbered, you get a +2 bonus on all Weightlifting checks. If you have Intimidating Prowess, you can substitute a Weightlifting check for Intimidate, adding your Charisma bonus (if any) to the check.
Untrained: If you have no ranks in Weightlifting, light weightlifting requires at least 5 minutes of working out or lifting at least your max carry, and you cannot attempt moderate or thorough weightlifting.

kglusing
2018-06-26, 01:52 PM
Skill Unlocks
As you gain ranks in physical skills, you can also unlock additional benefits. To do so, you must have the Signature Skill feat for that skill, although unchained rogues can also pick them for their rogue’s edge class feature, and fighters, monks, and rangers add Signature Skill to their lists of bonus feats, but only if they choose a physical skill. Hybrid classes with one of the above classes as a parent that gain bonus feats also add Signature Skill to their list in the same way.
Bonuses gained from physical skill unlocks overlap, they do not stack with each other. They do stack with bonuses gained by using the skills.
If the campaign doesn’t utilize physical skills for all characters, you must also take Physical Skill Training before you can gain skill unlocks in these skills.

Aerobics
You can choose one of these benefits for every 5 ranks you obtain in Aerobics. Some benefits require that you have more ranks before you can choose them.
Fleet (5 Ranks): You gain Fleet as a bonus feat.
Hand-to-Hand (5 Ranks): You gain a +1 bonus to unarmed attack and damage rolls.
Defensive Training (10 Ranks): You gain a +1 bonus to AC when fighting defensively. When using total defense, you gain a +2 bonus instead.
Resistance Training (15 Ranks): You gain a +2 resistance bonus on all saving throws any time you stretch for at least 2 minutes. This lasts for 4 hours with 2 minutes of stretching, or 8 hours with 5 minutes.
Pinnacle of Dexterity (20 Ranks): Increase your Dexterity by 1.

Cardio
You can choose one of these benefits for every 5 ranks you obtain in Cardio. Some benefits require that you have more ranks before you can choose them.
Adrenaline (5 Ranks): You gain a +1 bonus to initiative and on attack and damage rolls made when you are at or below 50% of your total hit points.
Fleet (5 Ranks): You gain Fleet as a bonus feat.
Toughness (10 Ranks): You gain Toughness as a bonus feat.
Breathing Techniques (15 Ranks): You are only required to breathe once every 5 minutes in order to avoid suffocation or drowning.
Pinnacle of Constitution (20 Ranks): Increase your Constitution by 1.

Endurance
You can choose one of these benefits for every 5 ranks you obtain in Endurance. Some benefits require that you have more ranks before you can choose them.
Walk it Off (5 Ranks): Reduce any fall damage you would take by 1d6.
Hold Breath (5 Ranks): You double the amount of time you can hold your breath.
Great Fortitude (10 Ranks): You gain Great Fortitude as a bonus feat.
Endurance (10 Ranks): You gain Endurance as a bonus feat.
Damage Reduction (15 Ranks): You gain Damage Reduction 1/–.
Sparring Partner (15 ranks): When an attack would deal nonlethal damage to you, you take half that damage instead.
Spell Resistance (20 Ranks): You gain Spell Resistance 20 + your Constitution modifier.
Pinnacle of Constitution (20 Ranks): Increase your Constitution by 1.

Flexibility
You can choose one of these benefits for every 5 ranks you obtain in Flexibility. Some benefits require that you have more ranks before you can choose them.
Combat Finesse (5 Ranks): You gain a +1 bonus to melee attack rolls made with light and finesse weapons. This counts as the Weapon Focus feat for the purpose of meeting prerequisites.
Skill Synergy (5 ranks): You gain a +2 bonus on Escape Artist checks and on Acrobatics checks made to move through a threatened space.
Dodge (10 Ranks): You gain Dodge as a bonus feat.
Improved Grapple (10 Ranks): You gain Improved Grapple as a bonus feat, even if you wouldn’t qualify for it otherwise.
Whiskers (15 Ranks): You can squeeze through any space large enough to fit your head while moving, treating that space as difficult terrain. If you stop moving while squeezing in this way, you must make a Flexibility check (DC 25) or become stuck.
Combat Finesse, Improved (15 Ranks): Requires the combat finesse skill unlock. You gain a +2 bonus to melee damage rolls made with light and finesse weapons. This counts as the Weapon Specialization feat for the purpose of meeting prerequisites.
Evasion (20 Ranks): You gain evasion, as the monk class feature.
Pinnacle of Dexterity (20 Ranks): Increase your Dexterity by 1.

Power
You can choose one of these benefits for every 5 ranks you obtain in Power. Some benefits require that you have more ranks before you can choose them.
Adrenaline (5 Ranks): You gain a +1 bonus to initiative and on attack and damage rolls made when you are at or below 50% of your total hit points.
Hand-to-Hand (5 Ranks): You gain a +1 bonus to unarmed attack and damage rolls.
Overpower (5 Ranks): You gain a +1 bonus to melee and thrown weapon damage rolls.
Iron Will (10 Ranks): You gain Iron Will as a bonus feat.
Power Attack (10 Ranks): You gain Power Attack as a bonus feat.
Candle Strike (15 Ranks): As a standard action, you can make a single attack against a creature, substituting your ranks in the Power skill for your base attack. If you miss by 4 or less, you deal half your normal weapon damage as nonlethal.
Overpower, Improved (15 Ranks): Requires the overpower skill unlock. You gain a +2 bonus to melee and thrown weapon damage rolls. This counts as the Weapon Specialization feat for the purpose of meeting prerequisites.
Shattering Strength (15 Ranks): When you attack an object, you can make a Power check to ignore its hardness. The DC for this check is equal to the object’s hardness.
Pinnacle of Strength (20 Ranks): Increase your Strength by 1.

Weightlifting
You can choose one of these benefits for every 5 ranks you obtain in Weightlifting. Some benefits require that you have more ranks before you can choose them.
Deadlift (5 ranks): When you use weightlifting to lift a creature or object for 1 round, you can use your push/drag weight instead. Afterward, you are fatigued for a number of rounds equal to 10 - your combined Str and Con modifier.
Overpower (5 Ranks): You gain a +1 bonus to melee and thrown weapon damage rolls.
Great Fortitude (10 Ranks): You gain Great Fortitude as a bonus feat.
Salmon Ladder (10 Ranks): You can substitute Weightlifting for Climb and Swim checks and Acrobatics checks made to jump. You gain a bonus on these checks equal to half your total bonus in the related skills.
Overpower, Improved (15 Ranks): Requires the overpower skill unlock. You gain a +2 bonus to melee and thrown weapon damage rolls. This counts as the Weapon Specialization feat for the purpose of meeting prerequisites.
Shattering Strength (15 Ranks): When you attack an object, you can make a Weightlifting check to ignore its hardness. The DC for this check is equal to the object’s hardness.
Pinnacle of Strength (20 Ranks): Increase your Strength by 1.

kglusing
2018-06-28, 09:36 AM
I updated the main post to better indicate that I'm hoping to get some feedback on these from anybody willing to give them a try. I'm going to playtest them as well, but it never hurts to have some more eyes on something so new and quite different.

DapperReaper
2018-06-28, 11:06 PM
skimming thru the first thing to jump out at me is you may want to specify if the 1 DR from the endurance skill unlock stacks with DR from other sources or not, I'd go thru it more thoroughly but its late and I have to be up early, hope that is at least somewhat helpful though

kglusing
2018-06-29, 08:13 AM
skimming thru the first thing to jump out at me is you may want to specify if the 1 DR from the endurance skill unlock stacks with DR from other sources or not, I'd go thru it more thoroughly but its late and I have to be up early, hope that is at least somewhat helpful thoughIt does, thank you very much.

At the moment, I'm actually thinking of not having these stack with other sources. Specifically, I think they function better as a way to half get what other characters may get sooner or more frequently by being part of a class.

Example: A barbarian always has damage reduction after 7th level. Somebody who isn't a barbarian has to train especially hard (represented as 15 ranks in Endurance) to even get that far. By 15th level, the barbarian has DR 3/- already, so he'll be better suited to choosing the sparring partner if he's invested in Endurance.

Right now, I'm treating this as a way of balancing physical skills. Somebody who already has exceptional Dexterity (rogues, monks, etc) probably doesn't have to invest in Flexibility to get evasion, but a fighter who wants to spend 20 levels building his Flexibility up while still being a fighter might find use in it.

Thoughts on this? Should I open them up more? I don't want to make them an always choice. As it is, to gain any of the skill unlocks, one still has to invest at least 1 feat (Signature Skill) and if you want to gate these further, 2 (Physical Skill Training). The trade-off feels good to me, but I'm hoping for other opinions.

Knaight
2018-07-01, 10:32 AM
There are a few ways in which this is really fiddly. Tying this to BAB creates a situation where the PSR per level fluctuates cyclically for 3/4 and 1/2 BAB characters, which just seems unnecessary. The Barbarian formula is a finicky way of assigning 2.5 PSR per level, except for the ones that get either one or two per level depending on where in the rules you look.

Then there's some weirdness in formulas. The DC of the Aerobics check increases with your dexterity and level, which basically just creates a 10+ and 15+ flat d20 roll where there's a +3 available and you can fall behind by not spending ranks, albeit expressed in a needlessly convoluted fashion, which is then repeated with other skills.

The permanent bonuses from reaching certain skill ranks are at least more interesting, though again they're finnicky and indirect. This is at least better than Aerobics and Weight Lifting, which just adds a bunch of rolling for periodic and fluctuating bonuses.

SodaQueen
2018-07-01, 10:51 AM
"Fiddly" is definitely the word. Learning another subsystem that is built into skills (Sub-sub system?) is kind of a pain given how situational a lot of the benefits are. The only one that really jumped out to me was Cardio's ability to regain a use of grit, ki, luck, etc (you might want to better define what a "resource pool" is).

It's really janky to tie these to BAB and while it is pretty clever how you tried to do to avoid low skill classes to just have a lot more skills that help them, rather than forcing a subsystem into an existing subsystem, these might be better as a series of feats. The skills themselves don't have much use aside from just buffing skills or other things like carrying capacity. This just seems like a lot of unnecessary extra work to do something fairly simple.

Also, I really didn't appreciate the sales pitch.

kglusing
2018-07-01, 12:37 PM
Duly noted and thank you. I will clean this all up tonight when I’m home. Thank you much for the feedback

kglusing
2018-07-04, 09:13 PM
I have updated physical skills to be clearer and have more straight-forward benefits.