would playing this racial 'snowflake' be too irritating

[Camman1984]

We all know and love the whole drizzit subverting racial stereotypes thing and I think you would all agree there should be a drizzit at every table :) however I want to play a different version if him.

everyone knows kender are usually good, kind and tender, but my character hates that, being treated like a child, everyone assuming he is a goody two shoes and not letting him do anything fun. so he is out to prove then wrong, deliberately doing things that in his eyes would be evil, petty vandalism, stealing things, letting the bad guys escape erg.

He will also try and do things that he himself feels uncomfortable with, like when we have a captive he will threaten him with torture, while he holds his blade shaking because it is all an act deep down.

basically he will try and do things he has been told are evil, but only by comparison to other kender norms, he won't be going round eating babies and burning down hospitals. would he still be evil if he is only evil by his own standards? he is just so keen to show that the kender are as hardbitten and fearsome as everyone else.

[Lalliman]

petty vandalism, stealing things, letting the bad guys escape erg.
Isn't this what Kender do normally, on the excuse that they're too oblivious for it to count as evil?

The Kender part aside, a character who tries to be evil against his nature sounds pretty interesting. But as with any character who has an inclination to disrupt the group's efforts, I would run it by the other players and the DM first.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The Kender part aside, a character who tries to be evil against his nature sounds pretty interesting. But as with any character who has an inclination to disrupt the group's efforts, I would run it by the other players and the DM first.
Yeah, to be honest it sounds like you're suggesting "all the behaviors people hate kender for, but with an edgelord attitude." I don't recommend.

[Sigreid]

You lost me with the whole Driz at every table thing. Never liked the character.

[Scots Dragon]

would playing this racial 'snowflake' be too irritating
Not nearly as irritating as using the word snowflake in that context would be.

[Spacehamster]

You lost me with the whole Driz at every table thing. Never liked the character.
This be heresy of the highest order!

[Camman1984]

You lost me with the whole Driz at every table thing. Never liked the character.

that bit was meant to be sarcasm ;)

I am starting to think i have misinterpreted kender fluff as more child like and innocent than they actually are. I assumed that they were basically like Tolkien hobbits playful and mischevious but everyone just sees them as cute.

[Bloodcloud]

Maybe better would be to have try to be evil, but be terrible at it. Like he wants to torture a guy with his dagger, but ends up giving him a nice shave. Steal from the group, but giggle while doing it so its super evident and sheepishly give it back. Throw insult that actually turn into a nice compliement.

[Sigreid]

that bit was meant to be sarcasm ;)

I am starting to think i have misinterpreted kender fluff as more child like and innocent than they actually are. I assumed that they were basically like Tolkien hobbits playful and mischevious but everyone just sees them as cute.

The name is literally just German for child, so yes, they are typically meant to have a perpetual child like innocence.

Anyway, every character by the nature of characters is a special snowflake and there are good people in the world that kind of wish they were evil. I think some of the allure of RPGs and computer games is fantasizing about doing things that would horrify them in real life.

Given the strong feelings about them, the real question is if the party is ok with a kinder at all. Much less an emo edge lord one.

[quark12000]

Not nearly as irritating as using the word snowflake in that context would be.

Ditto Ditto.

[Dr. Cliché]

everyone knows kender are usually good

Ahem. Kender being good is practically the definition of an Informed Attribute. In that the writers apparently ignore a whole lot of blatant crimes on their part and just say 'yeah, this race of liars and thieves are pure good'.

Suffice to say, many actual players of D&D tend to disagree with that assertion.

https://1d4chan.org/images/4/45/Kender_race_description_annotated.png [Warning: contains some swearing and some references to Kender.]



Not nearly as irritating as using the word snowflake in that context would be.

When I hear 'racial snowflake', I picture something more along the lines of this - 'I want to play a special sort of elf. They're like a mix of High Elves and Elderin but with skin that shimmers like diamonds and hair like liquid silver. Also, my character is an extra special type with emerald-green eyes that have pupils in the shape of stars. Also, he's the last of his kind, as the rest of his race died fighting the greatest war ever against a million demons. He fought with them but the others viewed him as just to unique to die, and so sent him away at the last minute.'

[Camman1984]

When I hear 'racial snowflake', I picture something more along the lines of this - 'I want to play a special sort of elf. They're like a mix of High Elves and Elderin but with skin that shimmers like diamonds and hair like liquid silver. Also, my character is an extra special type with emerald-green eyes that have pupils in the shape of stars. Also, he's the last of his kind, as the rest of his race died fighting the greatest war ever against a million demons. He fought with them but the others viewed him as just to unique to die, and so sent him away at the last minute.'

that would be my definition too, I use it in a derogatory sense for lots of my character ideas, I am definately guilty of wanting to be different for the sake of being different. but then after playing for 20+ years it gets harder and harder to find RP opportunities i haven't tried before without going into that kind of territory.

[Willie the Duck]

Not nearly as irritating as using the word snowflake in that context would be.

I'm getting all sorts of education on this thread. I thought, outside of tweens on Xbox live or whatever hurling insults at their opposition or maybe alt-right-ers lobbing insults at alt-lefters, both the terms 'snowflake' and 'edgelord' were artifacts abandoned in about 2010 or so.


I am starting to think i have misinterpreted kender fluff as more child like and innocent than they actually are. I assumed that they were basically like Tolkien hobbits playful and mischevious but everyone just sees them as cute.

It depends on who you ask. That might have been the intended interpretation. I think the general consensus (although, given that I'm not up on what vocabulary is still in vogue, perhaps I'm not one to ask) is that a kender, specifically Tasslehoff Burrfoot, in a single character in a series of novels (with a mixed reputation, but the sales numbers suggest it people liked the books) was acceptable (kind of like a Disney comic relief sidekick like the parrot in Aladdin or the snowman in Frozen, mildly enjoyable unless you try to make an entire book/movie about them). Interpreting that character concept to an entire race was pretty nonsensical (a creature/civilization with those issues could not survive, much less be allowed into the lands of other species). Worse still, is when you consider them as a playable race, that your players/fellow players can choose as a race in a game of D&D. They are basically a golden ticket to allow you do some of the most annoying things players ever do with their characters, and then hide behind a 'well I'm just playing my character based on their background.' Therefore, a lot of people hate them (and I have yet to have met anyone who sees them as cute).


that would be my definition too, I use it in a derogatory sense for lots of my character ideas, I am definately guilty of wanting to be different for the sake of being different. but then after playing for 20+ years it gets harder and harder to find RP opportunities i haven't tried before without going into that kind of territory.

That's one reason why I think the term snowflake is so poor for something like D&D -- everything seems like it is either going to be cliché (oh good, short-tempered faux-Scottish dwarf who likes beer, axes, and bashing heads) or outlandish in a vaguely too-cool-for-school kind of way. If you want to make a character who doesn't feel either duller than beige or eye-rolling-ly edgy, there's not a lot of space when someone won't consider your idea one or the other.

[GlenSmash!]

oh good, short-tempered faux-Scottish dwarf who likes beer, axes, and bashing heads.

This is why I play a human with a faux-viking accent who likes mead, swords, and bashing heads.

D&D is the best.

[Nifft]

We all know and love the whole drizzit subverting racial stereotypes thing and I think you would all agree there should be a drizzit at every table :) however I want to play a different version if him.

everyone knows kender are usually good, kind and tender

Wow, you have "snowflake", Drizzt, and Kender all in the first few lines.

I expect you'll get a lot of replies.

[GlenSmash!]

Wow, you have "snowflake", Drizzt, and Kender all in the first few lines.

I expect you'll get a lot of replies.

Should have thrown Warlord in there too. just to be sure. :smallwink:

[Sception]

Not nearly as irritating as using the word snowflake in that context would be.

This.

Otherwise, the behavior described for the character - intentionally disruptive to the party's interests simply for the sake of being so - sounds like a bad fit for what is essentially a cooperative game. The idea of an evil Kender, bitter about the stereotypes of their race, actively committing evil acts and using the assumptions and condescension to get away with them sounds like an interesting character... as a villain, or a party member in an explicitly evil campaign where such behavior would be in line with the objectives of the rest of the party. But while an evil PC can work in a non-evil party, they still have to have goals and objectives that largely align with those of their good-aligned companions.

The only exception is if you have worked out with the DM specifically to be a mole in the party who will eventually betray them, and in so doing leave the party, becoming an npc and forcing you to make a new character. Otherwise, this is a character I would advise against. I'd rather have an entire party of secret royal orphan outcst magical ninja mixed race drow/high elf aasimar with special destinies, fairy godparents, silver hair, and complete heterochromia of the eyes than a party with a single character whose explicit goal is to undermine any and everything the party tries to do out of pure spite.

[Camman1984]

always handy to be able to pitch ideas here to see where the consensus lies (a no this time) rather than trying what I think might be a laugh but end up being 'that guy' at the table.

I get the end goals thing with the party. my evil rogue is about to enter negotiations on behalf of the Red Dragon ruler of a city. She is doing this in order to strike a bargain to help increase his power in exchange for an alliance with the good guys in a war against demons. She helps him, he rewards her, and party except them both because they share a common enemy.

[2D8HP]

Not at my table, but the last time I offered to DM (human, half-human, non-casters only cept half-elves may have a Cantrip, per the SCAG, and there may be 2nd level Paladins and Ranger PC's, otherwise just Barbarians, Fighters, and Rogues) I had no takers, though when I whinged about that some awesome folks at this Forum said my proposal sounded okay

Curse you geography!

Anyway, no Kender either, I'd actually be more likely to accept Drizzt, but the magic panther companion would be BBQ toot sweet.

[JakOfAllTirades]

I think you should go for it, and you should definitely name the character "Snowflake" for good measure.

Yeah, "Snowflake" Nine-Toes has a nice ring to it....