Is the blood hunter class splatbook stuff or balanced and fine?

[Huron]

Hi,
(first post!) :)

I just wonder if the blood hunter (which is a really cool concept) is a tad bit over the top?
I base this soley on a quick overview of DPR by the damage dealing classes such as Barbarian, Fighter, Rogue and Warlock.
For ease of comparison I will
- compare all at lvl 11 since that is an interesting level that players actually hit
- not use magical weapons
- not have comanions that boost anything
- not multiclass
- have 2 numbers for all of them, with or without hex since all can basically have it at the cost of a feat.
- just assume everything hits (even with powerattack)

Berzerker Barbarian with 2h axe + Rage + Frency + 20str + power attack
Plain: 3*(1d12[6.5]+10 + 5 + 4) = 76.5
(Plain no power attack): -30 = 46,5
Hex: + 3d6[10.5] = 87

Rogue with 2 rapiers and 20 str
Plain: 1d8[4.5] + 5 + 1d8[4.5] + 6d6[21] = 35
Hex: +2d6[7] = 42

Warlock with 3 eldritch blasts + agonizing blast +20cha
Plain: 3*(1d10([5.5] + 5) = 31.5
Hex: +3d6[10.5] = 42
(one shot Scorching ray + hex, with 6lvl slot): 7*(2d6[7] + 1d6[3.5]) = 73.5

Fighter with 2h axe + 20str +power attack
Plain:3 * (1d12[6.5] + 10 + 5) = 64.5
(Plain no power attack): -30 = 34,5
Hex: +3d6[10.5] = 75

Ghost hunter Blood hunter with 20 str 16 wis + great axe + Rite of dawn + Maledict(double rite damage) + power attack
Plain: 3 * (1d12[6.5] + 10 + 5 + 3 + 2d8[9]) = 100.5
(Plain no power attack): -30 = 80.5
Hex: +3d6[10.5] = 111

(Even better for sustained damage with higher hit chance)
Ghost hunter Blood hunter with 20 dex 16 wis + dual rapier + Rite of dawn
Plain: 4 * (1d8[4.5] + 5 + 3 + 1d8[4.5]) = 68
Hex: +4d6[14] = 82

1st: What we notice is that power attack is high risk high reward and a bit unhinged but that we knew.
2nd: Blood hunter outperform everyone with or without powerattack with between 25% Barbarian with hex and PA and more than 160% for Warlock with hex vs PA hex Blood hunter.

Sure we can min max lvl 20 with quickcasting sorcerer raven queen warlock fighters (for eldritch blasts + hex + spiritual weapon + hex + extra action for a repeat) but looking at the pure classes these numbers makes me wonder how balanced this thing is.

What is you opionion and are you using them in your game?
Anyone done the math on the min maxed quickcasting sorcerer raven queen warlock fighter attack just for kicks?

[Sargentpsychooo]

In my opinion blood Hunter is undoubtedly the best at combat from the melee classes. Blood hunters are extremely flexible and get magical buffs right off the bat. While he is great though I would not say he is so overpowered that you shouldn't allow people to play Blood Hunters. Yes they are powerful and yes they are a bit op but not in big enough proportions to break the game.

[ciarannihill]

DPR is not the only indicator of combat potency.

In fact, Blood Hunters are (in)famously glass cannon builds, they have a d10 HP, but no heavy armor or shield proficiency, and use HP as an active resource to set up their combat potential. Even their reactions cost HP. Multiclassing as a Blood Hunter could make these problems less prominent, but they're still worthy of note.

EDIT: Also it's noteworthy that you didn't give the Fighter, Rogue or Warlock an archetype, which would almost CERTAINLY increase their respective DPRs tremendously.

[strangebloke]

Blood hunter damage is great, but the reduced health pool and the fact that they don't get heavy armor proficiency (and therefore need to be DEX-based) limits their capability a lot in melee.

Like they're effectively a d8 or d6 hit die class who really has trouble using heavy weapons, and has no major defensive boosts like the rogue does.

At range is where they're overpowered.

But then, I think ranged is overpowered as-is. There aren't enough advantages to fighting in melee unless you're going for specific control-based builds.

[Lockwolfe]

Why dual rapier? Rapiers aren’t a light weapon. Are we assuming that two feats are being taken by level 11 as well as enough ASIs to bump their primary stats to 20? Also, remember, your Blood Hunter just took 22 points of damage to be able to do that. (Or 11, I guess, with the update)