Planar Adventures discussion thread

[Thealtruistorc]

So, Paizo's newest hardcover just dropped today with some interesting new stuff, mostly focused on the planes. I'm wondering what all of your thoughts are regarding the new feats, archetypes, and of course monsters.

The monsters are honestly the best part of the book in my opinion. A variety of powerful and flavorful creatures to fill the planes of your adventures (Watchers are my favorite). The amount of detail in the book regarding many of the planes is also very much appreciated.

[Psyren]

I like it. The art (particularly the sections for each plane) is stellar. The Plane of Shadow and NEP look especially creepy.

Two of the three new races are interesting. Just as Aasimar descend from angels and Tieflings from fiends, we now have Aphorites (inevitable-descent) and Ganzi (protean-descent.) The third one is Duskwalkers, which descend from psychopomps, but they're somewhat boring.

A part of the book I really enjoy though is that it appears to have retconned the whole "atheists/agnostics get put in the Boneyard" aspect of Golarion's lore. You can believe the deities are not worthy of worship and still very likely go to a plane that matches your alignment (e.g. one of the good planes if you lived a righteous life.) It appears that only rejecting the entire cosmology or system of belief itself will consign you to no afterlife, i.e. rejecting becoming a petitioner at all. And while it's likely that anybody who was about to be assigned to a lower plane might try for this option instead, you'd still have to pull a fast one on Pharasma or her judges, which... well, good luck with that.

Speaking of the gods, the tiers of divinity is useful information too. I was pretty certain they'd never stat the gods out, and it's nice to get that reaffirmation.

We got some more info on the Akashic Record as well, which is a nice spot for your adventure to end up. (Anyone watch Magicians? It's basically The Library.)

[Milo v3]

I like the "special plane artstyle" if only they didn't show so much grey. Makes a lot of them look the same. Not sure how useful this book will end up being since my campaign doesn't use Golarion's cosmology, but I bought a pdf of it for the monsters and races.

[Palanan]

So, I walked into Barnes & Noble today, somehow expecting the hardcover would be on the shelf, managing to completely forget that all you Paizo-subscriber types get the book early. :smallredface:

Curse you, early subscriber types! Because after having shrugged it off when it was announced, now I really want to page through it. Two weeks suddenly seems very long.

[Psyren]

So, I walked into Barnes & Noble today, somehow expecting the hardcover would be on the shelf, managing to completely forget that all you Paizo-subscriber types get the book early. :smallredface:

Curse you, early subscriber types! Because after having shrugged it off when it was announced, now I really want to page through it. Two weeks suddenly seems very long.

Not sure if you mean me, but I'm not a subscriber :smalltongue: I bought the $10 PDF like Milo did. Subscribing gets you the dead tree editions, which I prefer to buy from my FLGS (and only for certain volumes.)

[Palanan]

Okay, fair enough. I've never really looked into the Paizo subscription options.

I suppose this wraps up the 1E print run, then? My library tended to buy more of these than I did, but it's still a little sad.

[Psyren]

P1 will still be printed once P2 comes out, but only in softcover IIRC.

[Florian]

I´ve got mixed feelings on this one.

The cosmology is actually great and the "Great Beyond" is much needed update of the old "Great Wheel" cosmology that actually manages to tackle and solve some of the underlying problems of prior editions of D&D. The book also manages to really explain how alignments as cosmic forces work and how all of it is supported and empowered by the River of Souls.

Feats and spells, were back to the usual 3E problem of being too specific and no alternative method is sight, like, for example that particular hardcover having no occult rituals. What vexes me a bit, is that, again, as so often, UMD and a scroll is preferable to getting a feat.

The feat section is the actual highlight, imho, going straight for very useful oder powerful "magical" effects, no matter the build you base them on. That's something I've missed a decade now....

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Florian
The feat section is the actual highlight, imho, going straight for very useful oder powerful "magical" effects, no matter the build you base them on. That's something I've missed a decade now....

I have absolutely no idea what this could mean. Neither the syntax nor the sentiment make any clear sense to me.


Originally Posted by Psyren
P1 will still be printed once P2 comes out, but only in softcover IIRC.

Do you mean the mini-reprints of the hardbacks that they've been bringing out? Or will they still be printing Player's Companions and etc. for P1?

.

[Psyren]

The cosmology is actually great and the "Great Beyond" is much needed update of the old "Great Wheel" cosmology that actually manages to tackle and solve some of the underlying problems of prior editions of D&D. The book also manages to really explain how alignments as cosmic forces work and how all of it is supported and empowered by the River of Souls.

Agreed, I love this section too.


Feats and spells, were back to the usual 3E problem of being too specific and no alternative method is sight, like, for example that particular hardcover having no occult rituals. What vexes me a bit, is that, again, as so often, UMD and a scroll is preferable to getting a feat.

Yeah agreed. It's particularly weird when some of the new spells they added (e.g. Judgement Undone) should definitely have been rituals instead with how involved they are.


I have absolutely no idea what this could mean. Neither the syntax nor the sentiment make any clear sense to me.

I believe he's referring to the new "(Conduit)" feats, which require you to invest in Know Planes but otherwise are pretty easy to qualify for, and can collectively give you a variety of SLAs as long as the area you're in is not blocked off from extraplanar access.



Do you mean the mini-reprints of the hardbacks that they've been bringing out? Or will they still be printing Player's Companions and etc. for P1?


I'm not sure actually what will continue on and what will be stopped completely. The quote is somewhere in the P2 thread I think.

[Slithery D]

Okay, fair enough. I've never really looked into the Paizo subscription options.

I suppose this wraps up the 1E print run, then? My library tended to buy more of these than I did, but it's still a little sad.

This is the final PF1 hardcover. The softcover lines continue until PF2 is released next year.

[Helluin]

Speaking of the gods, the tiers of divinity is useful information too. I was pretty certain they'd never stat the gods out, and it's nice to get that reaffirmation.

We got some more info on the Akashic Record as well, which is a nice spot for your adventure to end up. (Anyone watch Magicians? It's basically The Library.)

Where is this info on tiers of divinity in that book? Sorry I just got the book and am anxious to see them, but I couldn't find a obvious place to start looking :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

Where is this info on tiers of divinity in that book? Sorry I just got the book and am anxious to see them, but I couldn't find a obvious place to start looking :smalltongue:

Pg. 70 "Role of the Divine", subsection "Divine Power". It's the part that starts with:


There are three levels of power among the divine, although divinities of all levels wield vast power, especially when compared to a lowly mortal.

The three tiers are "Deity", "Demigod" and "Quasi-Deity" in descending order. All three can grant spells to clerics.

1) Deities are defined as beings so powerful they exist beyond rules and statblocks, basically saying you need plot/GM fiat to oppose them directly.
2) Demigods are next in line, typically but not always range from CR 26 to CR 30 (not including Mythic), and include beings like archdevils, demon lords, Great Old Ones, empyreals etc. If they control a planar realm they can shape it via thought, though of course they can't supersede a true deity that holds sway there.
3) Quasi-Deities are the weakest (typically but not always CR 21-25 not including Mythic) and include things like qlippoth lords and green men. Mythic characters who take Divine Source also fall in here. Even if a QD controls a planar realm, shaping it still requires magic or similar abilities.

Basically, by defining deities this way, Paizo is reaffirming their decision to never stat out deities in PF.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Psyren
Basically, by defining deities this way, Paizo is reaffirming their decision to never stat out deities in PF.

Do you know why Paizo is making this choice?

[Psyren]

Do you know why Paizo is making this choice?

Definitively no as I'm not a Paizo employee. But as the ubiquitous adage states: "if it has stats, it can be killed." Creating official stats would just encourage people to try killing the gods this way, rather than through plot.

There is of course nothing stopping your own GM from statting them out, even leveraging/tweaking existing deity stats from 3.5 to do so, if that's the kind of campaign your table wants to run. Another option is to use the "Heralds" for each deity found in Inner Sea Gods (which do have stats) as foils for the party, perhaps advanced as necessary to make them appropriately challenging. Your GM could then rule that defeating a deity's herald or champion in this way, especially after they were buffed up, might have some kind of negative effect on the deity itself - making them vulnerable and able to be defeated, whether by combat or another method (like draining their power with a specially-prepared artifact, perhaps one even granted by another deity?)

If you want to, you can even easily combine both approaches; it could make for an interesting campaign if done right.

[Helluin]

Pg. 70 "Role of the Divine", subsection "Divine Power". It's the part that starts with:



The three tiers are "Deity", "Demigod" and "Quasi-Deity" in descending order. All three can grant spells to clerics.

1) Deities are defined as beings so powerful they exist beyond rules and statblocks, basically saying you need plot/GM fiat to oppose them directly.
2) Demigods are next in line, typically but not always range from CR 26 to CR 30 (not including Mythic), and include beings like archdevils, demon lords, Great Old Ones, empyreals etc. If they control a planar realm they can shape it via thought, though of course they can't supersede a true deity that holds sway there.
3) Quasi-Deities are the weakest (typically but not always CR 21-25 not including Mythic) and include things like qlippoth lords and green men. Mythic characters who take Divine Source also fall in here. Even if a QD controls a planar realm, shaping it still requires magic or similar abilities.

Basically, by defining deities this way, Paizo is reaffirming their decision to never stat out deities in PF.

Huh, James Jacobs has, on multiple occasions, gave his definition of each category on paizo discussion board. It's still good to see these rules in print though :)

I also note that Green man has been demoted to quasi-deity status, since I was just talking to some people a few months ago that by JJ's definition, a Green Man is a solid low level demigod... Oh well.:smallconfused:

[Florian]

I have absolutely no idea what this could mean. Neither the syntax nor the sentiment make any clear sense to me.

"Conduit" is a new feat sub-type. Very easy prerequisites, interesting abilities, automatically scales with ranks in K:Planes and no long feat chains involved. The other type is the three-step Planar Infusion feat chain, that will have effects based in the corresponding plane. Some of those are pretty nifty, especially on a class that has spare feats, like grabbing Raise Dead/Breath of Life as SLA on a non-healer class and so on.

[upho]

I believe all PC options and monsters are now up on Nethys (https://www.aonprd.com/SourceDisplay.aspx?FixedSource=Planar%20Adventures ).


"Conduit" is a new feat sub-type. Very easy prerequisites, interesting abilities, automatically scales with ranks in K:Planes and no long feat chains involved. The other type is the three-step Planar Infusion feat chain, that will have effects based in the corresponding plane. Some of those are pretty nifty, especially on a class that has spare feats, like grabbing Raise Dead/Breath of Life as SLA on a non-healer class and so on.In principle, I agree it's great they've removed another brick from the annoying "only casters can have magic"-wall. In practice, find that removed proverbial brick was obviously small. Meaning I think most of the feats are decidedly unimpressive, having poor action economy, overly limited duration/uses, and/or effects which won't remain useful for many levels after becoming accessible. Not to mention many of them require a significant investment before they give something that may actually matter (such as 3 Planar Infusion feats), and many grant offensive SLAs allowing saves against a DC bound to suck big-time. Unless you happen to be Cha SAD, of course, but in that case you're most likely already a full caster and have little need for these feat benefits anyways.

There are a few exceptions though, such as Flickering Step: short range poofaport within LoS and LoE, up to 5/day (or 6/day with Open Conduit feat), available with Know: Planes 9 ranks. Complemented with say Teleportation Mastery and Dimensional Dervish, martial supercharger types can get an expensive but pretty solid combat mobility package in mid/high levels. Probably best accompanied with at least 4 (weapon master) or 5 fighter levels, other dips granting bonus feats and training weapon(s) to mitigate the severe feat starvation.

Otherwise, most martials will likely find the ends of the demonic and diabolic style feat chains more interesting; Demonic Slaughter granting free Greater Cleave on charge bull rushes (combine with siegebreaker fighter 2, MoMS monk 1, abyssal bloodrager levels and a Tempest Shield for hilarious one-shot overkill of two or more enemies per round), and Diabolic Judgement allowing for vital strikes on AoOs (combine with execution axe, max size increases and some AoO triggers, then laugh diabolically knowing a perfectly healthy balor will be annihilated by a single AoO hit). The two first feats in both these chains are however rather pathetic in terms of mechanics, although the diabolic one has kinda fun and fitting fluff.

I also like the fluff of the new races I've read up on so far, although I find their mechanics and few options quite meh. Well, perhaps aside from the fact there's finally a race with Str and Int bonuses per default.

So far, I agree with Thealtruistorc that the most interesting part of this book is the monsters.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I was delighted when I saw that race; plus a magus of that is in prime position to pick up an Arbiter inevitable as a familiar, which is one of my favorite options.

[Calthropstu]

Last time I had a planar adventure, we ended up crash landing.

[upho]

I was delighted when I saw that race; plus a magus of that is in prime position to pick up an Arbiter inevitable as a familiar, which is one of my favorite options.Yeah, that's pretty cool, I agree. And about friggin' time!


Last time I had a planar adventure, we ended up crash landing.:smallbiggrin:
Ah, the classic "TPK by entire party traveling to subjective gravity plane in the same astral skiff", I assume?

Now listen carefully to the wisdom of veterans sailors of Astral Sea such as esteemed old Calthropstu here, all you young plane-hoppers! What can we learn from his story? The answer is of course that you don't put your bunch of suicidal squabbling idiots incapable of agreeing on anything typical adventuring party in the same flying vessel and expect them to survive subjective gravity!

[Florian]

@upho:

Old problem: The dichotomy of what D20 is supposed to deliver and what it, looked at as a system in general, enables and makes possible.

[Palanan]

I keep striking out where this book is concerned. I walked into B&N today with the intention of looking through a copy...except they didn't have a copy. Nearly a full shelf of Pathfinder hardbacks, from the CRB and Horror Adventures to Ultimate Intrigue and the Strategy Guide. They had Ultimate Wilderness the day it was officially released.

But Planar Adventures? Not a single Barnes & Noble in my area has a single copy. The book's been out in hardcopy for a week now. Is there any reason why B&N doesn't have a single one in stock?

[Psyren]

I keep striking out where this book is concerned. I walked into B&N today with the intention of looking through a copy...except they didn't have a copy. Nearly a full shelf of Pathfinder hardbacks, from the CRB and Horror Adventures to Ultimate Intrigue and the Strategy Guide. They had Ultimate Wilderness the day it was officially released.

But Planar Adventures? Not a single Barnes & Noble in my area has a single copy. The book's been out in hardcopy for a week now. Is there any reason why B&N doesn't have a single one in stock?

You'd probably have to ask them :smalltongue: and just be thankful you still have a Barnes & Noble!

(You might have better luck with an actual gaming/hobby store. Those aren't in much better shape, but they're more inclined to pounce on new Paizo and WotC releases.)

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Psyren
…just be thankful you still have a Barnes & Noble!

I miss Borders. For all their faults, I really miss them.

Without going into detail, I have no such affection for B&N. Browsing game books is about the only reason I go in there.


Originally Posted by Psyren
You might have better luck with an actual gaming/hobby store. Those aren't in much better shape, but they're more inclined to pounce on new Paizo and WotC releases.

Sadly, the only hobby store in my area just has a few 5E books and some Warhammer stuff.


Originally Posted by Psyren
You'd probably have to ask them….

Just got off the phone with a manager at the closest B&N. Plenty of runaround, no real information. Claimed that because the book was released a week ago, it might be too soon to have received any copies—even though other locations, an hour’s drive away, do have copies.

Then claimed that it was a corporate decision based on whether or not they thought the book would sell—which doesn’t really explain anything, since they’ve reliably had other hardbacks on the shelf the day they were released. Didn’t want to hear this last part, didn’t seem familiar with Pathfinder products. Didn’t seem too interested in finding someone else in the company to answer my questions.

Dealing with them is like pulling teeth, except when pulling teeth you eventually get a tooth. Nothing but empty socket here.

[Psyren]

That sucks. No luck online?

[Florian]

Dunno. I don´t even have some kind of regular shop that carrie Roleplaying items....

[Psyren]

Dunno. I don´t even have some kind of regular shop that carrie Roleplaying items....

I'm lucky enough to still have several hobby stores around me that survived the recession. There is even a B&N.

If pickings are slim though, online may be the only source for dead trees editions.

[NightbringerGGZ]

I'm lucky enough to still have several hobby stores around me that survived the recession. There is even a B&N.

If pickings are slim though, online may be the only source for dead trees editions.

My B&N was replaced with a gym. It was the only book store within about 30 miles too. =(

Have you checked your local library? It's not uncommon for libraries to have RPG books for major systems. Mine has a lot of PF and 5e stuff.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Psyren
If pickings are slim though, online may be the only source for dead trees editions.

Maybe, although I’m still thinking something strange is going on with this particular title. May just be a hiccup in B&N’s system, but it’s puzzling.


Originally Posted by NightbringerGGZ
Have you checked your local library? It's not uncommon for libraries to have RPG books for major systems. Mine has a lot of PF and 5e stuff.

Mine too, and the majority of their Pathfinder books are due to requests I’ve placed. :smalltongue:

However, their ordering process isn’t always fast, so if I put in a request today it might be Halloween before I see the actual book. I was hoping to get my hands on a copy a little before then.

[Slithery D]

Since it’s the last hardcover and a new edition has been announced they might have cut their buy quantity.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Slithery D
Since it’s the last hardcover and a new edition has been announced they might have cut their buy quantity.

This makes a lot of sense. This, and maybe the print run itself was reduced, for the same reasons.

[Milo v3]

Claimed that because the book was released a week ago, it might be too soon to have received any copies—even though other locations, an hour’s drive away, do have copies.
It came out a month ago....

[Palanan]

The PDF came out a month ago, but the hardcover wasn't released in the US until July 10.

[Frosty]

So, Paizo's newest hardcover just dropped today with some interesting new stuff, mostly focused on the planes. I'm wondering what all of your thoughts are regarding the new feats, archetypes, and of course monsters.

Are you talking about the Campaign setting book "Distant Realms"?

[Milo v3]

Are you talking about the Campaign setting book "Distant Realms"?

No. They're talking about the RPG-line book (that should be a Campaign Setting-line book) Planar Adventures.