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TheMuffinThief
2007-09-09, 09:36 AM
Hello,

In the campaign I am playing, there is a monk. The player of this monk wants to be able to enchant gloves (clothing, not gauntlets/gloves with an AC) with either Shock or Shocking Burst. My two questions are:

1. Is enchanting clothing with Shock or Shocking Burst within the rules?
2. If using these gloves, would the monk's attacks still classify as unarmed?

P.S. This is a 3.5 campaign.

Thanks,

The Muffin Thief

Kaelaroth
2007-09-09, 09:40 AM
At least in my gaming group the answer to both those questions is: Yes.

Akennedy
2007-09-09, 09:45 AM
I'd say yes. But, can't the monk just have himself enchanted? He's counted as being a 2-sided weapon?

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-09-09, 09:56 AM
Hello,

In the campaign I am playing, there is a monk. The player of this monk wants to be able to enchant gloves (clothing, not gauntlets/gloves with an AC) with either Shock or Shocking Burst. My two questions are:

1. Is enchanting clothing with Shock or Shocking Burst within the rules?

No, but it would make a very reasonable house rule IMHO.


2. If using these gloves, would the monk's attacks still classify as unarmed?


Yes.

prufock
2007-09-09, 11:56 AM
Wondrous items can have clothing as a "base" (e.g. cloaks, vestments, shoes, gloves). There's no reason you couldn't create a wondrous item called, say, Monk Wraps, which can be worn on the hands or feet and can be enchanted like any other weapon. Let magic weapon serve as the base spell, no extra material cost or xp cost, x2000gp for use-activated = 2000gp. Voila! Monk Wraps with +1 enhancement bonus. Since the wrap isn't actually a weapon, and you will be able to enchant it further, add the uncustomary space limitation and multiply by 1.5 = 3000 gp. Since you want to still consider the attack "unarmed" so you get those handy monk benefits, multiply it by an additional 1.5 on the base cost, bringing the total to 4000 gp.

That seems a little steep for one wrap, but keeping it mind that you're still going to be considering this an unarmed attack, the monk will still get the benefits of such, and it isn't really that bad.

If, for some crazy reason, you don't care about maintaining the monk's unarmed abilities, I would just charge 300gp for masterwork quality (silk wraps?) and the regular cost of enchantment.

Anxe
2007-09-09, 12:14 PM
Monk magic weapons are actually supposed to be Amulets, but Gloves or Brass Knuckles make much more sense. The attacked still count as unarmed if the item isn't Gauntlets.

Stam
2007-09-09, 12:16 PM
Bracers of Striking, from Magic of Faerun.

Specifically designed for this purpose. Cost as per double weapon, with a base...900 gp or thereabouts (don't have the reference handy) for the initial item. Grants its bonus to unarmed strike, and can accept weapon special abilities in addition to straight + bonus.

Raolin_Fenix
2007-09-09, 01:43 PM
You can have a pair of gloves do anything you want. I see no reason at all why this isn't an option. However, bear in mind that if he's wearing gloves of Shocking Grasp, he's not wearing Gloves of Dexterity. They must take up an item slot. :P

Cybren
2007-09-09, 01:56 PM
You can have a pair of gloves do anything you want. I see no reason at all why this isn't an option. However, bear in mind that if he's wearing gloves of Shocking Grasp, he's not wearing Gloves of Dexterity. They must take up an item slot. :P

Wondrous items don't take up an item slot I thought

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-09-09, 01:59 PM
Wondrous items don't take up an item slot I thought

Not all of them, but many do.

Chronos
2007-09-09, 02:02 PM
Wondrous items don't take up an item slot I thoughtAlmost all slots can only be filled by wondrous items. Everything but an armor or a ring that takes up an item slot is a wondrous item.

Person_Man
2007-09-09, 03:44 PM
You could enchant gauntlets and still have them count as unarmed strikes. But gauntlets are not special monk weapons, so they couldn't be used with flurry.

However, Monks are so sucktackular that I would just give them gloves that could be enchanted as weapons. There's no reason to punish a player who wants to play a monk because WotC wrote their crunch poorly.

KillianHawkeye
2007-09-10, 02:40 AM
It's not 3.5, but Sword and Fist had the ring of shocking blows that allowed you to make touch attacks for 1d8+3 electricity damage (or unarmed strikes for your normal damage plus 1d8+3 electricity damage), but it cost 13,000 gp. Unfortunately, I don't know if it was ever updated into 3.5 or not.

Keledrath
2007-09-10, 06:28 AM
Yeah, this is one of the only ways to save the monk: Give them the ability to use enchanted gloves to get elemental damage.

knightsaline
2007-09-10, 08:40 PM
I would allow them to wear enchanted bracelets. it would strap onto the wrist/s of the monk (depending if you count each fist as a weapon or both fists count as one weapon) and would provide damage depending on the element of the bracelet.

If you are playing a literal unarmed monk, allow the monk to use anklets instead or enchant boots so they do elemental damage. I would also let the monk make a jump check to do a flying kick (monk unarmed damage + falling damage), but make the AC higher for them to do this. If they fail to hit (or the hit connects and they bounce off), they take falling damage and possible broken ankles. I can think of a few mundane things you could do to a pair of boots to give the monk some options.

Neftren
2007-09-10, 08:46 PM
Or, add a Butterfly Sword from the Arms and Equipment Guide. It allows the monk to use the sword but as if he were unarmed. Simple matter of further enchanting that. Since you have a free weapon slot anyway...

Stam
2007-09-10, 10:27 PM
...Bracers of Striking? As mentioned above? A 3.5 item, which allows monks to enhance their unarmed strikes with + bonus and weapon special abilities?

It just costs as per a double weapon (due to a monk's flurry ability).

Skjaldbakka
2007-09-10, 10:35 PM
You could enchant gauntlets and still have them count as unarmed strikes. But gauntlets are not special monk weapons, so they couldn't be used with flurry.

Actually, guantlets are unarmed strikes, so they can be used in a flurry. Using enchanted gauntlets is in fact the core-RAW method of magic-weaponifying a monk's unarmed strikes. Cloth Wraps or gloves etc., are just less cheesy ways of making that effect.

Of course, by RAW, monks aren't proficient with unarmed strikes, but this is an oversight.

SCPRedMage
2007-09-11, 12:32 AM
Of course, by RAW, monks aren't proficient with unarmed strikes, but this is an oversight.
No oversight; monsters are always proficient in their natural weapon, and players are always proficient in unarmed strikes. Weapon Proficiency: Unarmed simply doesn't exist.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-09-11, 01:49 AM
Actually, guantlets are unarmed strikes, so they can be used in a flurry. Using enchanted gauntlets is in fact the core-RAW method of magic-weaponifying a monk's unarmed strikes. Cloth Wraps or gloves etc., are just less cheesy ways of making that effect.


Gauntlets can be used in a flurry, their only function is to turn non-lethal unarmed strike damage lethal.

However, they are simple weapons, so monks are not proficient with them and would take a -4 penalty to attack by RAW.

Again that was RAW, as I already stated earlier I would have no qualms about allowing it for the Monk as a house rule.

mabriss lethe
2007-09-11, 02:10 PM
At least in the SRD the gauntlet is listed under the "unarmed attack" section of simple weapons.


Gauntlet:
This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with gauntlets.

Since using a gauntlet as a weapon is treated as an unarmed attack, then monks do actually qualify as being proficient with them. I honestly think this is more of an issue of "lack of clarity" than anything else. They don't tell you that monks are proficient with them because it's assumed that you know they are.

Even if I'm dead wrong here and way off the mark... meh. What DM in his or her right mind would call a monk player out on that when every other character is wielding flaming greatswords and other such critters.

Curmudgeon
2007-09-11, 03:11 PM
Monk magic weapons are actually supposed to be Amulets, but Gloves or Brass Knuckles make much more sense. Actually that makes less sense. Unarmed attacks include striking for damage with elbow jabs, knee strikes, punches, kicks, hip checks, and head butts. Magically agumenting some small subset of what makes up a Monk's unarmed attacks seems very weird -- like sharpening only 20% of a sword's edge.

Think of it as someone fighting by boxing rules, with lead-weighted gloves (the enhancement), versus Chuck Norris. Chuck is going to kick the boxer to death because he's got more unarmed strike options.

Machete
2007-09-11, 03:23 PM
Two choices

This is online and in the Magic Item Compendium. Gharyn's Monastic Array item set has a weapon that uses the wielder's unarmed attack as its damage and of course can be enchanted. Fairly cheap too! Can you say THROWING? Pretty much degimpifies any monk or unarmed fighting PC it is given to.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ps/20070223a

There is an amulte from Savage Species that lets you put weapon enchantments on it that then are used with teh users Natural Weapons (which MONKS unarmed strikes also count as as well as light weapons). This is more expensive and takes up an item slot.

Indon
2007-09-11, 03:26 PM
Actually that makes less sense. Unarmed attacks include striking for damage with elbow jabs, knee strikes, punches, kicks, hip checks, and head butts. Magically agumenting some small subset of what makes up a Monk's unarmed attacks seems very weird -- like sharpening only 20% of a sword's edge.

Think of it as someone fighting by boxing rules, with lead-weighted gloves (the enhancement), versus Chuck Norris. Chuck is going to kick the boxer to death because he's got more unarmed strike options.

How about this perfectly RAW scenario:

You have a +4 adamantine sword. You still get all the benefits of that sword's enchantment and material, even when striking with the flat of the blade (when dealing nonlethal damage). What part of enchanting a sword makes it a better bludgeoning tool?

My point? Enchantments make no sense anyway, why bother trying.

Keld Denar
2007-09-11, 03:54 PM
The only precident I can think of is an amulet of mighty fists. The cost of such and amulet is 1.5 times the bonus. Therefore, a +1 amulet would be 3,000 and a +1 shocking would be 12,000 and a +1 shocking burst would be 24,000. It quicky becomes way over priced passed +1.

Also, it takes up the neck slot, which monks need for wisdom AND con buffing items (boo).

TimeWizard
2007-09-11, 04:52 PM
Curmudgeon touched upon one of my pet peeves of D&D: Unarmed strikes. It's a staple of western idealology to subconciously tie this word to the western martial art: boxing. The PHB specifically say that unarmed strikes can come from every part of the body: Elbows, knees, feet, shins, headbuts, etc... It also specifically states that Monks can utilize Flurry of Blows while holding something in their hands (the given example being a hooded lantern, I beleive). Your martial artist might be akin to a Tae Kwon Do master of kicks, (Hwarang Tekken, Sanji One Piece, Joe King of Fighters) or they might like fightin' dirty (Sam Vimes, anyone?).

Long story short: unarmed attacks can include, but are not limited to, punching.

AtomicKitKat
2007-09-12, 02:43 AM
Your martial artist might be akin to a Tae Kwon Do master of kicks, (Hwarang Tekken, Sanji One Piece, Joe King of Fighters)

Kim. Joe is the Muay Thai Champion.