What's the better generalist wizard?

[Brightersidegam]

So, seeing as there aren't any plans for a universalist kind of wizard that I've seen, I'm wondering what school of wizardry might be the best generalist wizard to play.

Of course, in UA, you have the inventor, but I'm kind of mad at them, they don't feel like "inventors," and just like magic is about slapping about. They feel like a wizard version of chaos sorcerers, as opposed to sculpters and inventors of new, magical theories. Still, can't argue that they're, so far, the most suited to being generalist.

Outside of UA, though, what are your takes? I'm thinking either Transmutation or war casters, depending on whether you want to focus on combat or not. Divination being a VERY good runner in it as well. Though they're expert divination only triggers off of divination spells, it still replenishes spell slots in general.

All the others seem to be "we cast other spells, but why should we?" Abjuration's abilities tend to work with abjuration spells. Evocation can only make safety pockets in evocation spells, necromancy have better effects with necromancy spells, illusions, conjuration and enchantment go hard on their spells.

I do wish they'd make just a universalist wizard type, I'm trying to make a character that doesn't adhere to studying one specific type of school, but to magic as a whole. How different classes, and people in general, all cast magic differently, and is just fascinated by it all.

I guess I could make a chaos sorcerer or lore bard that really likes to study, but it really feels like a wizard thing.

[Greywander]

Diviner tends to be the best generalist wizard. The key here is the Portent feature, which can be used with almost any d20 roll, by you or someone else. It's not just for divination spells, you can cast, say, Feeblemind on a powerful spellcaster and use Portent to substitute a low roll for their saving throw.

If they did come out with a generalist subclass, I'd expect to see things like getting an extra cantrip or two, being able to switch out spells without resting, or even straight up casting a spell you don't have prepared. Maybe, maybe even getting something like the bard's Magical Secrets so they can grab spells from other classes. I have a homebrew feat that lets you prepare one extra spell during a long rest and it can be any spell from any class provided that it's below a certain level (up to INT mod, I think, so 5th max), so maybe a feature like that would fit in with a generalist wizard.

[holywhippet]

Diviner tends to be the best generalist wizard. The key here is the Portent feature, which can be used with almost any d20 roll, by you or someone else. It's not just for divination spells, you can cast, say, Feeblemind on a powerful spellcaster and use Portent to substitute a low roll for their saving throw.


I should note that portent is a potentially powerful class feature but it depends on what you actually roll for it. It still is potentially very powerful though.

[JackPhoenix]

War caster. It's got a bit of everything... some defense, some offense, better initiative, no preference for any school of magic.

[ImproperJustice]

War caster. It's got a bit of everything... some defense, some offense, better initiative, no preference for any school of magic.

Another vote here for War Caster.
That +4 saves as a reaction and initiative bonus is golden.
The Dispel/surge feature is ok, but bland enough to ignore and focus on other things.

I do like the second posters ideas for a generalist caster.

[Brightersidegam]

Yea, that portent feature is too good, and in most all circumstances, it's just the better choice... But it still has that divination specialist feel. Wake up, have a couple prophetic visions, eat breakfast, normal day for everyone. Of course, portent could be anything from consulting the bones to just gut feelings at the beginning of the day.

So a diviner fits nicely as well though, but it's still got that fortune telling feel, you know?

Transmutation gets that stone, though, allowing for some neat buffs and effects (or just proficiency in constitution saves).

And, again, war caster is just a good, all-round, combat mage, with a hint of a penchant for counter spells and dispels.

Also, middle finger of Vecna has a generalist homebrew that seems pretty good, if not a bit boring and a bit dated, but what can you say from a generalist mage :p. (http://mfov.magehandpress.com/2015/08/universalist.html?m=1)

[JakOfAllTirades]

My vote for the best generalist Wizard goes to the Lore Bard.

What?

[Deathtongue]

My vote for the best generalist Wizard goes to the Lore Bard.

What?The joy of playing a wizard is in having All Of The Spells, and bards have a limited spell list AND spells known. Lore bards have their own appeal and tricks wizards can't do, but they just can't go 'I have an app for that. Give me eight hours, tops' like a wizard can.

[Rerem115]

The trick is to go full illusionist and use the tools at your disposal to convince square pegs into round holes. With enough time and creativity, you can probably find an illusion spell that's a suitable substitute for whatever you're trying to accomplish.

[Deathtongue]

The trick is to go full illusionist and use the tools at your disposal to convince square pegs into round holes. With enough time and creativity, you can probably find an illusion spell that's a suitable substitute for whatever you're trying to accomplish.Please reconsider this point of view. There's a world of difference between knowing, having, and/or getting and having the appearance of knowing, having, and/or getting. Especially since illusions in 5th Edition are more limited than the ones in, say, 2nd and 3rd Edition.

[NaughtyTiger]

Please reconsider this point of view. There's a world of difference between knowing, having, and/or getting and having the appearance of knowing, having, and/or getting.

The irony of telling an illusionist to change their view of reality, cuz they literally do just that at level 14.

[Laserlight]

Knowledge Cleric 1 / Divination Wizard X.

[Zalabim]

The best generalist wizard is probably, provably, the UA Artificer from the Eberron UA. It's roughly a wizard who chooses all item creation feats. The scroll making gives some access to spells in their book that aren't prepared and also aren't rituals. The potions and weapon/armor enhancements give it a stronger party-supporting role, basically giving it party-helping effects that don't take away from concentrating on the usual wizard crowd control spells. A little iteration on this to clean up the wording on some abilities and do a balance pass on the potion options and costs would make for a strong tradition.

[LudicSavant]

I should note that portent is a potentially powerful class feature but it depends on what you actually roll for it. It still is potentially very powerful though.

On the contrary, I would say that Portent is statistically powerful no matter what you roll for it.

[Deathtongue]

Even if you get an 'average' result for Portent, it's still very good because of the way saves diverge in 5E D&D. If you're a level 9 wizard and you rolled a 13 for your Portent, you can still guarantee a Fire Giant fails a WIS-based saving throw for Fear or Suggestion.

[JellyPooga]

On the contrary, I would say that Portent is statistically powerful no matter what you roll for it.

Portent is very powerful if you roll high or low. It's middling to useless if you roll closer to average. In my experience of playing a Diviner, I found that I always used my Portent rolls when they were higher than 12 or lower than 8, but when they were in that 8-12 bracket, I frequently found it difficult to find a situation where I actually wanted to use it; there was always that "I'll save it for when I know it'll be useul" mentality lurking in the back of my mind, because situations where you know you only need something to be average are remarkably rare.

[ruy343]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa; I feel we need to better define what a "generalist" or "universalist" wizard is.

If we're talking about a wizard that has access to all schools equally and does not specialize in any one school, then any wizard will do (marginal cost increases for spell scribing aside), and we're just talking about which 2nd level feature is most useful in the widest variety of situations. This seems to be the definition most people are choosing to take up.

If that's what we're going for, then I'm really surprised that no one has said Conjuration. Being able to conjure any object (with limitations that it must weigh less than 10 pounds and fit in a 3' cube when summoned, and that it disappears when damaged) is incredibly useful in a wide variety of situations both in and out of combat (conjuring bear traps, copying the jailmaster's key from memory (Keen mind feat), plugging the flame jet's hole with a perfect-fit plug, rolling a bowling ball down the hall to check for pressure plates, etc). If you're looking for a generalist that can always have a way to contribute, look no further.

However, if you want a true universalist wizard that feels like they have access to a wider repertoire, we could homebrew up a universalist wizard (with a weaker level 2 feature alongside the reduced spell scribing cost across the board) if you'd like, but most people wouldn't find it all that impressive because we'd be back to comparing level 2 abilities. Perhaps something like this:

The Universalist School

Level 2 (spell scribing cost ability + defining ability)
Universal Savant
You may scribe any spell into your spellbook for half its normal gold cost
Student of all
When you choose this school, you may add two additional spells into your spellbook. When you gain subsequent levels in this class, you may choose three spells to add to your spellbook instead of just two.

Level 6 (typically a moderately powerful ability)
Broadened Mind
When you prepare spells each day, you may prepare two more spells than indicated on the table. These spells must be for a level you could typically cast as normal

Level 10 (typically a ribbon)
You no longer require additional time to study and prepare your spells at the start of each day - you can simply choose new spells after a long rest

Level 14 (typically a major ability)
Master of the Basics
You no longer need to prepare first and second level spells - as long as the spell is written in your spellbook, you may cast it as though it is prepared. They still require the use of a spell slot.

Alternate level 14 (I'm not sure the previous one would be kosher, but this one is pretty powerful too)
Quick Study
You may select your spells prepared after just a short rest, instead of a long rest.

[Citan]

So, seeing as there aren't any plans for a universalist kind of wizard that I've seen, I'm wondering what school of wizardry might be the best generalist wizard to play.

Of course, in UA, you have the inventor, but I'm kind of mad at them, they don't feel like "inventors," and just like magic is about slapping about. They feel like a wizard version of chaos sorcerers, as opposed to sculpters and inventors of new, magical theories. Still, can't argue that they're, so far, the most suited to being generalist.

Outside of UA, though, what are your takes? I'm thinking either Transmutation or war casters, depending on whether you want to focus on combat or not. Divination being a VERY good runner in it as well. Though they're expert divination only triggers off of divination spells, it still replenishes spell slots in general.

All the others seem to be "we cast other spells, but why should we?" Abjuration's abilities tend to work with abjuration spells. Evocation can only make safety pockets in evocation spells, necromancy have better effects with necromancy spells, illusions, conjuration and enchantment go hard on their spells.

I do wish they'd make just a universalist wizard type, I'm trying to make a character that doesn't adhere to studying one specific type of school, but to magic as a whole. How different classes, and people in general, all cast magic differently, and is just fascinated by it all.

I guess I could make a chaos sorcerer or lore bard that really likes to study, but it really feels like a wizard thing.
Hi!

Hmmm...
My instinctive take would be Bladesinger, because it does not rely on any specific school and provides strong benefits to all kind of playstyles... But calling it a "generalist" is kinda pushing it, between the strong racial requirement and the tendency to use weapons.

So I'd actually say either Abjurer, Transmuter, Illusionist or Diviner.

Abjurer is the strongest contender to me actually: Arcane Ward is imo as close to "wizard protecting himself with raw magic like a wizard should" feeling one could hope for, he becomes very tanky as he levels up making him good for any kind of playstyle, and the most school specific feature basically relates to 2 or 3 spells max, that any and every Wizard should learn and use anyways (Counterspell, Dispel Magic, ???).
And the "recharge Ward with abjuration spells" does not force you to lock yourself into Abjuration spells either: let's be honest, it's just a cherry on the cake, you won't cook the cake back. But since Shield and Abjuration Schools are the mundane tools of any decent Wizard, it basically amounts to getting a small tip for being a Wizard.

So Abjurer is definitely my number one pick for "generalist".

Transmuter has other perks: the 2nd level is basically the most "wizardric" power one can relate to when considering general conception of what a wizard is, although I'd tie it with Illusion here. But as with Illusion, you can make many different things. The small plus over Illusion is that you don't rely on a specific school's spells.
Same with higher level features: Transmuter's Stone has enough choices to make it a great addition in whatever kind of party, Polymorph is in itself one of the top 10 versatile spells and Major Transmuter too brings different things at the same time.

So in terms of "having features that are useful in many different situations without relying on a specific school's spell nor getting strong roleplay ties" this one comes damn close to Abjuration.

Then come Illusionists and Diviner: Illusionist can be extremely powerful, but putting aside the "creativity from player + openmindness of DM" requirement... You're still just playing with images, and completely relying on your school. You can't call that "generalist".
As for Diviner: the Portent is good and can apply to any kind of situation, but that's about it, and it's only 2-3 times a day. Not Wizardric enough to me. You're otherwise deep into divination, especially considering the explanation of how Portent works, but also because other features strongly tie to it.

---- TL;DR
1. Abjurer: whatever spell you cast, whatever kind of wizard you aim for, this one brings huge benefits to the table because it brings extreme resilience in the long run, with no strings attached.
2. Transmuter: extremely creative while not being tied on one school, plus transmuter's stone and Polymorph giving you non-spell tools that are worth anytime anywhere (technically he trumps every other School just for being the only one that can resurrect someone ^^).
3a. Diviner: simply, and only, because Portent can apply to any roll so you probably have some use for them whatever result you roll each day.
3b. Illusionist: in capable hands illusions that have both sound and visual can provide solutions to many different situations. But you do rely on specific spells for all your magic (pun intended).
3c. Bladesinger: you could technically ditch Extra Attack and still love this school for all the tankiness it brings, but there is nothing else beyond and you have to be an elf, which is as bad in my eyes as needing school specific spells.


Whoa whoa whoa whoa; I feel we need to better define what a "generalist" or "universalist" wizard is.

If we're talking about a wizard that has access to all schools equally and does not specialize in any one school, then any wizard will do (marginal cost increases for spell scribing aside), and we're just talking about which 2nd level feature is most useful in the widest variety of situations. This seems to be the definition most people are choosing to take up.

If that's what we're going for, then I'm really surprised that no one has said Conjuration. Being able to conjure any object (with limitations that it must weigh less than 10 pounds and fit in a 3' cube when summoned, and that it disappears when damaged) is incredibly useful in a wide variety of situations both in and out of combat (conjuring bear traps, copying the jailmaster's key from memory (Keen mind feat), plugging the flame jet's hole with a perfect-fit plug, rolling a bowling ball down the hall to check for pressure plates, etc). If you're looking for a generalist that can always have a way to contribute, look no further.

Crap, I can't believe I forgot about Conjuration! 2nd level ability is indeed great. However, it's the only non-tied feature. So I'd put it alongside Illusionist myself. :)

[Greywander]

However, if you want a true universalist wizard that feels like they have access to a wider repertoire, we could homebrew up a universalist wizard
I think this probably falls outside the scope of what the OP is asking for, but nevertheless here is my offering if homebrew is in any way useful to the OP.

Liberal Arts - 2nd level
When you choose this school at 2nd level, you learn two cantrips of your choice from any spell list. Furthermore, whenever you prepare your spells, you may prepare one additional spell. This extra spell is not chosen from your spellbook, but instead can be any spell from any class as long as it is of a level you can cast and is 5th level or lower. Even though you have this spell prepared, you aren’t able to copy it into your spellbook or scribe spell scrolls.

These spells count as wizard spells for you.

Flexible Casting - 6th level
Starting at 6th level, you may change your prepared spells during a short rest. When you finish a short rest, you may select a number of spells you already have prepared up to your proficiency bonus and replace them with different spells from your spellbook.

Scholarly Wisdom - 10th level
Starting at 10th level, you can add half your proficiency bonus (rounded up) to any Intelligence or Wisdom check you make that doesn't already use your proficiency bonus.

In addition, you may use your spellbook as a spellcasting focus for your wizard spells. You only need to be carrying the spellbook on your person, you don't have to hold it in your hand.

Split Focus - 14th level
Beginning at 14th level, you may concentrate on two spells at once. However, while you are concentrating on two spells at the same time you have disadvantage on ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws. If you fail a concentration check, you lose concentration on both spells.

[ZenBear]

Wouldn’t the Lore Master suit your needs?
http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/20170213_wizrd_wrlck_uav2_i48nf.pdf

[bobofwestgate]

Lore Mastery Wizard has a lot of good benefits without focusing on a specific school

[PhoenixPhyre]

I think this probably falls outside the scope of what the OP is asking for, but nevertheless here is my offering if homebrew is in any way useful to the OP.


This is astonishingly over powered.



Liberal Arts - 2nd level
When you choose this school at 2nd level, you learn two cantrips of your choice from any spell list. Furthermore, whenever you prepare your spells, you may prepare one additional spell. This extra spell is not chosen from your spellbook, but instead can be any spell from any class as long as it is of a level you can cast and is 5th level or lower. Even though you have this spell prepared, you aren’t able to copy it into your spellbook or scribe spell scrolls.

These spells count as wizard spells for you.


At 2nd level, you give them a better version of Magical Secrets, which bards don't get until 6th (at best). Better, because it floats and can be freely chosen each day. Plus two cantrips from any list that cast using INT, something that many people multiclass for. For free.



Flexible Casting - 6th level
Starting at 6th level, you may change your prepared spells during a short rest. When you finish a short rest, you may select a number of spells you already have prepared up to your proficiency bonus and replace them with different spells from your spellbook.


And now, just to add insult to injury, you're letting them switch out that floating Magical Secrets on a SR. Even if you can only trade your regular spells (based on the last phrase), it's still stupidly OP, adding insane versatility to an already flexible class.



Scholarly Wisdom - 10th level
Starting at 10th level, you can add half your proficiency bonus (rounded up) to any Intelligence or Wisdom check you make that doesn't already use your proficiency bonus.

In addition, you may use your spellbook as a spellcasting focus for your wizard spells. You only need to be carrying the spellbook on your person, you don't have to hold it in your hand.


So now you can cast VSM spells with both hands free. Or VM spells. That's one of warcaster's benefits. For free. Plus another feature, giving you a limited JoAT. At a level that's normally a ribbon for wizards.



Split Focus - 14th level
Beginning at 14th level, you may concentrate on two spells at once. However, while you are concentrating on two spells at the same time you have disadvantage on ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws. If you fail a concentration check, you lose concentration on both spells.

No. Just no. Stop it. Now dual concentration?

I'm sorry, this is horrifically overtuned. Every single feature is strong (and several are stronger than whole feats or multi-class levels) individually. All of them together, on an already strong chassis...No. Just no.

[Greywander]

This is astonishingly over powered.
Alright, I'll admit I didn't actually put much thought into is and didn't check to make sure it was balanced against similar abilities from other classes. Sometimes you just have to throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Alright, I'll admit I didn't actually put much thought into is and didn't check to make sure it was balanced against similar abilities from other classes. Sometimes you just have to throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks.

But most of the time, it's better to start under-tuned and then tune up. Because starting at "I'm god"* just gets an instant rejection.

*exaggerating for effect

[bobofwestgate]

But most of the time, it's better to start under-tuned and then tune up. Because starting at "I'm god"* just gets an instant rejection.

*exaggerating for effect

Not that much of an exaggeration.

[LudicSavant]

Portent is very powerful if you roll high or low. It's middling to useless if you roll closer to average. In my experience of playing a Diviner, I found that I always used my Portent rolls when they were higher than 12 or lower than 8, but when they were in that 8-12 bracket, I frequently found it difficult to find a situation where I actually wanted to use it; there was always that "I'll save it for when I know it'll be useul" mentality lurking in the back of my mind, because situations where you know you only need something to be average are remarkably rare.

The "I'll save it for when I know it'll be useful" mentality is a property of the user, and does not demonstrate that the ability itself is "useless." The number of rolls where 8, 9, 10, 11, or 12 guarantees a success for you or failure for your enemy are not rare at all, statistically.

[Brightersidegam]

Wouldn’t the Lore Master suit your needs?
http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/20170213_wizrd_wrlck_uav2_i48nf.pdf


Lore Mastery Wizard has a lot of good benefits without focusing on a specific school

Oh yea, I know of the lore master, it's what got me started on this thread and chain of thought in the first place, plus the description is exactly how I want to pay my character.

Unfortunately, it's a bit too OP for my table and I'm a huge advocate for "keep it simple, stupid," so it's best not to try to pick apart the good and the bad from it, plus it's been retooled into the "school of inventors" in one of the newer UA, which just doesn't feel the same. They feel "mad science-y" when it comes to spell casting, as opposed to "pay, that's how this super works, but if I tell this incantation, this sigil, this rune, then the spell is slightly different!" You know, like a scientist might.

They're amazing at the generalist feel, and I wanted them to be tweaked in such a way that kept them the same flavor. But they didn't, and I don't want to have to over work with my DM to pick apart what's okay, and what's op, especially when a different option would work just as well.

I REALLY do love the description of the lore master, though, as that's exactly what I want to be playing, a wizard that studies magic as a whole, and works in the arcane studies much like a scientist works with science. Hypothesis, theories, testing said theories, tweaking them, and testing again.

Too many wizard want power, they study magic for years to get more power, so they can be so powerful for powerful reasons... What about the wizard that's just a scientist? Who started studying the arts because magic is so very interesting? Though... Even scientists have specialties.

Sorry, I'm rambling, this isn't a thread about my thoughts on the class as a whole, but a discussion on the title. Seeing a lot of talk about most of the schools... Except poor poor evocation and necromancy (though, I'd love to make a lawful good necromancer that has you sign consent forms to allow him to raise your corpse as an undead)

[PhoenixPhyre]

Though... Even scientists have specialties.



This is exactly right. Honestly, for me, even specializing by school is too broad. Wizards, if they're going to be scientist analogues, should specialize even further.

[Brightersidegam]

This is exactly right. Honestly, for me, even specializing by school is too broad. Wizards, if they're going to be scientist analogues, should specialize even further.

Which, I think, is where my mentality is coming from. I'm not a scientist, so when someone says "scientist" one might think "ah yes, a man that does science," and the thought of what kind of scientist hardly is thought about.

Same kind of goes with wizard, in my head, anyway. They are "a man that studies magic."

But now, thinking about the different schools of magic as different specializations is science helps with that block... Might even change the character I was thinking of up a bit.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Which, I think, is where my mentality is coming from. I'm not a scientist, so when someone says "scientist" one might think "ah yes, a man that does science," and the thought of what kind of scientist hardly is thought about.

Same kind of goes with wizard, in my head, anyway. They are "a man that studies magic."

But now, thinking about the different schools of magic as different specializations is science helps with that block... Might even change the character I was thinking of up a bit.

As a scientist (ok, I have a PhD in Physics), scientists are extremely specialized. I know most areas at a basic level (about mid-undergraduate, since I haven't done some in long enough), a few areas at an advanced level, and a single tiny slice at a high level. It'd be like being able to learn 1-3 level spells from any school, 4-6 from one or two, and 7-9 from only a tiny slice of a single school (aoe fire spells with medium range from evocation, or teleporting a few people between 10 and 25 miles from conjuration, or summoning this one sub-variety of elemental, etc.)

You can't be a generalist and be a good scientist--there's just too much ground to cover. My area was a slice of medium-low-energy atomic and molecular collisions. Go down the hall a bit (to the people doing thermal energy ones or further to the ones doing nuclear collisions) and I may be able to understand 25% of the jargon, and about 5% of the math. Go over to the solid state guys and I understand ~1% of the words and none of the math. I could learn it, but it would take significant effort. Years of effort.

[Brightersidegam]

As a scientist (ok, I have a PhD in Physics), scientists are extremely specialized. I know most areas at a basic level (about mid-undergraduate, since I haven't done some in long enough), a few areas at an advanced level, and a single tiny slice at a high level. It'd be like being able to learn 1-3 level spells from any school, 4-6 from one or two, and 7-9 from only a tiny slice of a single school (aoe fire spells with medium range from evocation, or teleporting a few people between 10 and 25 miles from conjuration, or summoning this one sub-variety of elemental, etc.)

You can't be a generalist and be a good scientist--there's just too much ground to cover. My area was a slice of medium-low-energy atomic and molecular collisions. Go down the hall a bit (to the people doing thermal energy ones or further to the ones doing nuclear collisions) and I may be able to understand 25% of the jargon, and about 5% of the math. Go over to the solid state guys and I understand ~1% of the words and none of the math. I could learn it, but it would take significant effort. Years of effort.

Jeez, yea. Again, it's not all lab coats and beakers, a typical stereotype (sounds like the name of a book... OH "it's not all lab coats and beakers: atypical stereotypes!" That would be the book title)

Hmmm... then it would seem that the "best" generalist wizard (giving this take on it) might be one that takes levels in all the classes that get spell casting at level one. Emphasize the "basic knowledge, but to a great degree" idea. No high level spells, but high level slots. Maybe not all, just wizard, sorcerer, cleric, bard maybe. Might be a bit MAD though...

[Armored Walrus]

Might be a bit MAD though...

You'd just have to dump all your physical stats. Who has time to work out anyway?

Edit: if you go half-elf you can start with 16 in all mental stats and still have one non-negative physical stat, even.