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Wraithy
2007-09-09, 02:13 PM
as part of my DM "nerfing" druids (they still work well, just armour prof lost). but more importantly (at least from a roleplay perspective), druids cannot touch metal. ever. even money. that said I'm looking forward to it, knives and forks can be dealt with very easily, hands/chopsticks/etc. but money. I can't ask the DM to modify the treasure (well I did, but he said no :smallbiggrin: ).
I was thinking of maybe something to do with a credit system. we play Eberron, so I can become a member of a druid coven/cult/thingamagig who we can bill it to. but that wouldn't explain what happens to my share of the party loot.
any suggestions?

Leon
2007-09-09, 02:19 PM
Tongs (fits with the alternate ways to eat as well)

that or Forsake it all and go VoP :smallbiggrin:

The Glyphstone
2007-09-09, 02:22 PM
Can't touch metal? Or can't handle metal? The first could be dangerous, if your DM decides to turn nasty and decide that you lose your druid powers the first time you get stabbed with a metal dagger...

Perhaps a cheap psychoactive skin? That'll coat your hands at least...

martyboy74
2007-09-09, 02:22 PM
Does this mean that putting a metal bracelet around a druid's wrist will strip all his powers away?

Crow
2007-09-09, 02:22 PM
that or Forsake it all and go VoP :smallbiggrin:

That will make your DM cry...and teach him a lesson for giving you such a lame (seemingly arbitrary) limitation.

Bleen
2007-09-09, 02:24 PM
Convert gold to gemstones? They aren't metal, they're just minerals, IIRC.

Spiryt
2007-09-09, 02:24 PM
I'm just interesed...

What " cannot touch " means? I blisers? Push you away?

If you can do anything about it, persuade your GM to drop the idea.

It has absolutely no sense. Besides nefing Druid in totally looney means.

Balkash
2007-09-09, 02:24 PM
wear gloves?

ocato
2007-09-09, 02:31 PM
Druidy restrictions confuse and bother me. Metal comes from the earth just as much as gems do, and heck, is arguably more part of the earth than wood. Also, Druids killing organisms because they don't believe in touching rocks? Thats just a minor confusion on druidy stuff. As for 'cannot touch metal'-- tell your DM that he's a twit. Or, preferably, politely protest the decision, make a calm and reasonable arguement (Why does my character have to automatically be poor and capable of losing all powers if someone sticks a copper piece behind my ear?) and hope for the best.

Lemur
2007-09-09, 02:37 PM
I have the feeling that the DM isn't so much out to bring druids down to a more reasonable level as he's just trying to execute a personal vendetta against a class he doesn't like. :smallsigh: Taking away armor doesn't really mean anything once they get wildshape, anyway. On the other hand, I suppose you did choose to play a druid knowing these houserules, so whatever.

Really, though, I'd just ask the other party members to carry your money and other treasure in exchange for you carrying some of their non-metal stuff. Basic cooperation and teamwork shouldn't be that hard off the battlefield, I'd think. Unless of course your group wouldn't go along with that, although if that were the case I'd be a bit leery in general about the group dynamic you're part of.

Reptilius
2007-09-09, 02:43 PM
It looks very silly, but i can see where the DM is coming from. On the other hand, he is handling it poorly. Try suggesting that only with worked metals, like steel.

ufo
2007-09-09, 03:09 PM
That's the most ridiculous I've ever heard...

As Tengu beautifully said, once upon a time, teach him the true meaning of splatbook!

PlatinumJester
2007-09-09, 03:13 PM
But what happens when you get hit by a longsword?

Mewtarthio
2007-09-09, 03:15 PM
Meh. Not as bad as the guy who got that "water is lava to you" deal. You can trust your comrades to carry gold for you (unless, of course, they're the Chaotic Stupid types who steal all the treasure for themselves).

Zincorium
2007-09-09, 03:19 PM
Why is it perfectly fine to kill your fluffy comrades and wear their tanned skins around in a mockery of life, but some metal that wasn't doing anything in nature anyway somehow becomes anathema to druids?

CockroachTeaParty
2007-09-09, 03:24 PM
I never really understood why Druids can't wear metal armor in the first place, and this 'nerf' is rather silly. Is not metal a natural material? Did it not come from the earth itself? Sure it's been mined, refined, etc... But human hands altered that leather armor you're wearing.

Why can druids use scimitars, but not wear a chain shirt? The druidic oaths certainly are strange.

Tengu
2007-09-09, 03:28 PM
That's the most ridiculous I've ever heard...

As Tengu beautifully said, once upon a time, teach him the true meaning of splatbook!

I did? Hmm... need to search my own posts to find out.

Anyway, my suggestion here is to wear gloves. Preferably boxing gloves. Then punch your DM.

Freshmeat
2007-09-09, 03:30 PM
Sounds like simply an inexperienced DM to me. As a roleplay device it has too much of an effect on the game, whereas as an actual nerf to the class it doesn't work.
If he knew what he was doing, he'd find a way to prevent cheese, other than 'arbitrarily annoy the player so much they he doesn't want to play the class anymore'.

I'm thinking that he pretty much disagrees on the flavor aspect of druids (e.g. they wouldn't care for money so much, therefore yadda yadda, whatever).
While one could say there might be some merit to that, preventing them from touching a natural mineral simply doesn't make any sense.

Besides, if druids would have to 'pay' (no pun intended) to fix the DM's view on flavor, then rangers are in the same boat, clerics and paladins should be forced to pay tithes to the church, bards and rogues must spend 25% of their loot on women and ale, monks should ignore all loot for spiritual reasons, wizards/sorcerers should spend it on library costs and unfashionable stars-and-moons clothing, and barbarians should smash the gold with their axe while praising Kartok, god of Breaking Stuff Apart.

MrNexx
2007-09-09, 03:33 PM
I would ask him for some clarification on issues.

1) What happens if you're hit by metal weapons? Or you hit someone in metal armor? Or come across metal jewelry, such a magic rings or necklaces? All valid concerns, since it's likely to happen at some point.

2) Is it acceptable for you to carry it if you don't touch it? Putting them in pouches, picking them up with gloves or chopsticks, or something similar?

3) If you can't carry it, can someone else carry your share for you? He might have it in mind that it's filthy for you to be associated with money at all.

I think it's possible, especially in light of the first point, that he didn't think through all the ramifications of the ruling for a druid character.

CrazedGoblin
2007-09-09, 03:36 PM
Tongs (fits with the alternate ways to eat as well)

that or Forsake it all and go VoP :smallbiggrin:


i think VOP has been banned aswell.

Mewtarthio
2007-09-09, 03:43 PM
as part of my DM "nerfing" druids (they still work well, just armour prof lost). but more importantly (at least from a roleplay perspective), druids cannot touch metal. ever. even money. that said I'm looking forward to it, knives and forks can be dealt with very easily, hands/chopsticks/etc. but money. I can't ask the DM to modify the treasure (well I did, but he said no :smallbiggrin: ).
I was thinking of maybe something to do with a credit system. we play Eberron, so I can become a member of a druid coven/cult/thingamagig who we can bill it to. but that wouldn't explain what happens to my share of the party loot.
any suggestions?

If Wraithy doesn't mind, I see no reason to yell at the DM. So long as he doesn't lose his powers if hit by metal weapons or forcibly chained, there's nothing wrong with having his party members carry the money around for him.

PlatinumJester
2007-09-09, 03:46 PM
Give your GP to me. I won't spend. Honest:smallamused:.

How about you do my killer combo and become a Warforged, take Ironwood body feat and then a level of ninja to add Wisdom to AC. I think thats why VoP was banned because of that combo, since you could raise your Wis really high. My bad, I guess.

Fualkner Asiniti
2007-09-09, 06:38 PM
Hmmm... I agree, druidic oaths are dumb as all get out. Really, a more acceptible nerf would be getting rid of Natural Spell. Or, heck, banning the killing of animals and the like. That makes waaaay more sence.

Machete
2007-09-09, 08:45 PM
Well, feel free to Powergame and Min/Max the heck out of everything. Natural Spell, blah blah blah.

Cannot touch metal. Stupid. Metal is a part of the earth. That would be denying ones self unity with the natural reality, man. WORKED METAL I can see. Fine. Even then throw a clause in there about willingness to touch it being factored in(Rusting Grasp LOLZ)

Have your Druid commit suicide and play a Scout.

Reel On, Love
2007-09-09, 08:50 PM
People have iron in their blood. You're screwed the moment you enter play.

Solo
2007-09-09, 08:51 PM
Item of Invisible Servant, at will, to handle metal for yourself.

Then start powergaming like hell.

If you post this story at the WotC CharOp boards, you will get a lot more build advice.

Edit:

ROL brings up a good point. You've got iron and other metals in your bloodstream. How will your DM handle that?

Citizen Joe
2007-09-09, 08:51 PM
The mistletoe that is the Divine Focus for druids is supposed to be harvested with a silver sickle. Inherent flaw in internal logic.

UserClone
2007-09-09, 09:04 PM
Besides, if druids would have to 'pay' (no pun intended) to fix the DM's view on flavor, then rangers are in the same boat, clerics and paladins should be forced to pay tithes to the church, bards and rogues must spend 25% of their loot on women and ale, monks should ignore all loot for spiritual reasons, wizards/sorcerers should spend it on library costs and unfashionable stars-and-moons clothing, and barbarians should smash the gold with their axe while praising Kartok, god of Breaking Stuff Apart.

Waitaminute...so nobody gets loot but the fighter?!? wOOt! Fighter FTW!


The mistletoe that is the Divine Focus for druids is supposed to be harvested with a silver sickle. Inherent flaw in internal logic.
The handle of the sickle is probably going to be made out of wood, or possibly bone/ivory, if it's fancy and decorative. People seem to forget that melee weapons have handles. Even if it didn't, have a buddy wrap some twine around and around the handle, then you aren't touching it.:smallamused:

jjpickar
2007-09-09, 09:09 PM
Actually there is quite a simple solution to this problem. Train your animal companion to handle your money for you. Just don't cast awaken on him.:smallwink:

dyslexicfaser
2007-09-09, 09:22 PM
No opposable thumbs would probably make it pretty tricky to store treasure. Still, the concept sounds kind of neat.

"Hmm... I'll take the wand. Snuggles? Pay the man."
*the badger starts counting gold coins out of a bag around its neck*

Wraithy
2007-09-10, 10:02 AM
"Hmm... I'll take the wand. Snuggles? Pay the man."
*the badger starts counting gold coins out of a bag around its neck*

HA! I have to try that, it should cost a trick though. Natural spell was banned too.
I think (and I'll have to confirm with my DM) that I cannot willingly use metals, so by bending the wording: "I am hit by the sword/chained up against my will".
I think he means I can only use nonrefined anything, eg: no processed metals, leathers, wood (in the case of wood that would mean no varnish).
these rules also rule out using gloves sadly, but what is D&D but a series of challenges?

:smallsmile: snuggles the badger

Solo
2007-09-10, 10:04 AM
But what do you do for magic items?

rings are metal, after all.

CrazedGoblin
2007-09-10, 10:07 AM
"Hmm... I'll take the wand. Snuggles? Pay the man."
*the badger starts counting gold coins out of a bag around its neck*

i can imagine that hehe

Chaos Bringer
2007-09-10, 10:41 AM
I think he means I can only use nonrefined anything, eg: no processed metals, leathers, wood (in the case of wood that would mean no varnish).


request all loot in unrefined gold nuggets? The gemstones was a good idea too, but i would go with snuggles just for the infinite entertainment value. For myself as a DM, I let druids use metal under the idea that it does come from nature (as does just about everything from the planet DUH) but i add a spell failure with all the heavy stuff. personally i dont see why you couldnt carry the gold coins in a bag or something, and have the shopkeeper count it out in front of you whenever you buy something.

Tengu
2007-09-10, 11:16 AM
I think he means I can only use nonrefined anything, eg: no processed metals, leathers, wood (in the case of wood that would mean no varnish).

So, practically, no magic items for you?

In game, make your own hide gloves and never take them off - touch everything with them. In real life, staple the DM's screen to his clothing.

Lord Tataraus
2007-09-10, 11:38 AM
HA! I have to try that, it should cost a trick though. Natural spell was banned too.
I think (and I'll have to confirm with my DM) that I cannot willingly use metals, so by bending the wording: "I am hit by the sword/chained up against my will".
I think he means I can only use nonrefined anything, eg: no processed metals, leathers, wood (in the case of wood that would mean no varnish).
these rules also rule out using gloves sadly, but what is D&D but a series of challenges?

:smallsmile: snuggles the badger

So what, you walk around naked? Or do you need to make all your clothing and stuff by yourself? If the latter, just say you made leather gloves. If the former, that's just disgusting. And you can get an ape companion that could count out the money better.

hippie_dwarf
2007-09-10, 12:41 PM
How about you do my killer combo and become a Warforged, take Ironwood body feat and then a level of ninja to add Wisdom to AC. I think thats why VoP was banned because of that combo, since you could raise your Wis really high. My bad, I guess.

He banned that and all. Also he's nerfed cleric so that you get no armour profs, poorest attack bonus and a d4 hit dice. Yet that does sound quite fun to play. Hopefully i will be able to persuade him to use the Cloistred Cleric variant, which is slightly better but not as all powerful as full cleric.

technophile
2007-09-10, 01:02 PM
The gemstones was a good idea too.
Gemstones are generally "refined" (cut) as well. Uncut gemstones bring a fraction of the value.

And the OP is totally screwed for magic items. Every single one of them is worked or refined in some way. I suppose you might be able to craft a wand out of an unworked tree branch, but no scrolls, no potions, no rings or bracers of armor or pretty much anything useful. Fortunately as a druid you're less item-dependent than most other classes, but even so that's a pretty harsh penalty.

Finally, in the line of "the DM really didn't think this out," are you allowed to use any of the following?

Waterskins, clothing of any sort (even hides are refined; in their natural state they're attached to an animal), cooked food, fire not caused by a natural event (such as lightning)...

I think you could make a case to him that this is way overreaching pretty easily.

Tallis
2007-09-10, 01:02 PM
No opposable thumbs would probably make it pretty tricky to store treasure. Still, the concept sounds kind of neat.

"Hmm... I'll take the wand. Snuggles? Pay the man."
*the badger starts counting gold coins out of a bag around its neck*


Get a monkey, they have thumbs.

Tallis
2007-09-10, 01:05 PM
heck, banning the killing of animals and the like. That makes waaaay more sence.

Not really, animals kill each other all the time, it's perfectly natural. Slaughtering animals for fun would be bad, but if you have a good reason (food, self-defense) then there's no reason to ban it.

Tallis
2007-09-10, 01:13 PM
HA! I have to try that, it should cost a trick though. Natural spell was banned too.
I think (and I'll have to confirm with my DM) that I cannot willingly use metals, so by bending the wording: "I am hit by the sword/chained up against my will".
I think he means I can only use nonrefined anything, eg: no processed metals, leathers, wood (in the case of wood that would mean no varnish).
these rules also rule out using gloves sadly, but what is D&D but a series of challenges?

:smallsmile: snuggles the badger

So you're walking arround naked with a rock to defend yourself? Do you live in a cave and keep yourself alive eating roots amd berries that you've scavenged in the woods while hiding from predators? All equipment requires some form of refinement. Making it yourself, as some people have suggested shouldn't matter, there's still a refinement process. Sounds to me like he needs a much clearer definition of what he means. as it is stated here it's crippling. No sane person would ever choose to be a druid. They couldn't survive.
Allowing someone else to handle your money for you seems like a reasonable solution to that problem, but you really need to talk to your DM about the actual limits of the restrictions.

Citizen Joe
2007-09-10, 02:19 PM
My passive/aggressive solution:
Don't be a druid (or cleric given their nerfing). Instead, be a ranger (or something) with favored enemy: Divine casters and start a holy war against the apparently crippled druids and clerics. Pick on them mercilessly. Use all these restrictions as weapons against them. If the DM has something against druids/clerics then this will be cathartic for him. If not, this will show him the error of his ways.

Or, dump the game immediately.

Green Bean
2007-09-10, 02:24 PM
My passive/aggressive solution:
Don't be a druid (or cleric given their nerfing). Instead, be a ranger (or something) with favored enemy: Divine casters and start a holy war against the apparently crippled druids and clerics. Pick on them mercilessly. Use all these restrictions as weapons against them. If the DM has something against druids/clerics then this will be cathartic for him. If not, this will show him the error of his ways.

Or, dump the game immediately.


"That's right Mr. Druid, I've locked you in this dungeon. However, I'm leaving the metal keys right here on the floor in front of you."

Solo
2007-09-10, 02:30 PM
He banned that and all. Also he's nerfed cleric so that you get no armour profs, poorest attack bonus and a d4 hit dice. Yet that does sound quite fun to play. Hopefully i will be able to persuade him to use the Cloistred Cleric variant, which is slightly better but not as all powerful as full cleric.
Your DM has issues.

Tengu
2007-09-10, 02:34 PM
Your DM has issues.

I agree wholeheartedly. Seems like one of those "point at it, cry out 'borken!!1one' and ban or nerf it in a stupid way, missing better ways to do it and more broken stuff entirely" DMs. I bet he does nothing to tone down wizards, does he?

slexlollar89
2007-09-10, 02:36 PM
You could try to reason with the guy... Come on he's not crazy (probably... hopefully) and I'm sure he would listen if you and/or others in the group confronted him about the retarded and nebulous restrictions he has imposed. Just dont call his idea retarded and nebulous... be sensible and civil.

Seriously though, be an archivist heh heh.

Solo
2007-09-10, 02:46 PM
Honestly, CoDzilla and the Wizardvist can be broken, but only if the players try to break them.

My RL group - now dead, alas - consisted of a two wizards, one cleric, a fighter, a rogue and a monk.

The casters were powerful, but did not play at the fullest potential, so they didn't steamroll everything the DM threw at us, and the others go to contribute, and everyone had fun.

Citizen Joe
2007-09-10, 02:47 PM
Well, if you want to be adult about it... yea...

Player 1: I don't feel comfortable adventuring in a world with the deviations from the norm that you have dictated.
DM: Well tough! I'm the DM. What I say, goes!
Player 1: I see... Good luck with that.
*Packs up books. Turns on TV. Waits for ride to finish so he can go home.*
Player 2: Umm... actually those are kinda harsh rules.
DM: That's it! You're out too!
*Packs up books. Flips through TV Guide.*
Player 3: Well, since we're short of players can I have a Gestalt Illithid Warblade/psion//wizard/archmage?

Wraithy
2007-09-10, 03:31 PM
seeing as most of my group is annoyed that we have started playing 3.7 edition rules without being consulted, any normal DM would listen to the whole groups opinion. sadly our DM... probably won't. luckily for the next campaign we do (we like to have backups for everything), the next DM has agreed not to ban anything, although he will limit stuff that seems overpowered within reason. untill then I have no idea what will hapen, at least NPC clerics and druids should be easier to kill.

ufo
2007-09-10, 03:35 PM
My friend thinks that everything but fighters, wizards and his own ranger should be banned, that would it'd be much easier for him. He thinks the same when playing WaoW, although there, he's a Warrior.

CrazedGoblin
2007-09-10, 05:11 PM
at least NPC clerics and druids should be easier to kill.

yup no more pesky healers to get in our way muhaha *Skips off to the tune from life of brian (allways look on the brightside of life)*

Tallis
2007-09-10, 09:51 PM
My RL group - now dead, alas - consisted of a two wizards, one cleric, a fighter, a rogue and a monk.

OMG!! What happened to them? House fire andthey couldn't get out? Car accident on their way to a con? I'm going to call my players right now and make sure they're okay...

OneWinged4ngel
2007-09-10, 10:02 PM
druids cannot touch metal. ever.

Then humans cannot be druids. Ever.

Kinda seems like a silly (read: stupid) idea to me.

tainsouvra
2007-09-10, 10:09 PM
seeing as most of my group is annoyed that we have started playing 3.7 edition rules without being consulted, any normal DM would listen to the whole groups opinion. sadly our DM... probably won't. There is no 3.7, there is only a DM who is so infatuated in his own ideas that he has convinced himself they belong in the WotC versioning.
:smalleek:
Talk about the last nail in the coffin...

Wraithy, it sounds like your DM is a poor one and everyone in the group--yourself included--recognizes that fact. I have to ask you: Why are you all playing with him as the DM in the first place? Just skip to the next guy so everyone can have fun.

Solo
2007-09-10, 10:19 PM
OMG!! What happened to them? House fire andthey couldn't get out? Car accident on their way to a con? I'm going to call my players right now and make sure they're okay...

...

Not literally dead.

The group is dissolved.

Leon
2007-09-11, 02:37 AM
Your DM has issues.

Serious Issues

Funkyodor
2007-09-11, 04:12 AM
I was thinking, these restrictions don't flow over into your animal companion. So, why don't you go Ape, armor 'em (Chain Shirt or Mithril Breastplate), weapon 'em (Great Club!), have 'em carry the Hewards Haversack and common supplies. Your Druid can be the beast master for a while (improvised weaponed, armoured, and only clothed in mud and leaves) by summoning hordes of creatures to buff and command. Then, when you get up in levels, cast Awaken on your Ape friend and become his sidekick. Get the Ape to buy a Monocle and Top Hat and call him Chauser or Baxter. The Ape will be your character then and the Druid can be towed around as servant like... Ooo OOOooo! Call the druid Dobby after the Harry Potter house elf! Great and fitting name I think.

Serpentine
2007-09-11, 04:22 AM
'borken!!'
This word amuses me far too much.

Wraithy
2007-09-11, 10:37 AM
Wraithy, it sounds like your DM is a poor one and everyone in the group--yourself included--recognizes that fact. I have to ask you: Why are you all playing with him as the DM in the first place? Just skip to the next guy so everyone can have fun.

The other DM is waiting for an important book to arrive, besides he DM'ed our last campaign and really wants to just be a player for a while, it would be unfair on him.

I second Serpentine regarding 'Borken'

PlatinumJester
2007-09-11, 11:13 AM
Just so you all know that none of us are actually playing a Druid or cleric and are only considering it as a back up character.

MrNexx
2007-09-11, 11:41 AM
Ok, a second question... Why is this DM so hostile to full casters?

Wraithy
2007-09-11, 11:42 AM
not really the point platinum, but I surpose it is relevant.

Edit:

Ok, a second question... Why is this DM so hostile to full casters?
I'm not entirely sure (perhaps he was abused by a druid), he has tried to nerf the wizard by banning lots of spells, but I'm not that sure which ones.
as Platinumjester pointed out, for our first characters in the campaign none of us are full casters, so we'll probably be fine unless one of us dies (if I'm lucky I won't have to use the backup character untill the next DM starts his campaign)

CrazedGoblin
2007-09-11, 11:47 AM
I was thinking, these restrictions don't flow over into your animal companion. So, why don't you go Ape, armor 'em (Chain Shirt or Mithril Breastplate), weapon 'em (Great Club!), have 'em carry the Hewards Haversack and common supplies. Your Druid can be the beast master for a while (improvised weaponed, armoured, and only clothed in mud and leaves) by summoning hordes of creatures to buff and command. Then, when you get up in levels, cast Awaken on your Ape friend and become his sidekick. Get the Ape to buy a Monocle and Top Hat and call him Chauser or Baxter. The Ape will be your character then and the Druid can be towed around as servant like... Ooo OOOooo! Call the druid Dobby after the Harry Potter house elf! Great and fitting name I think.

we cant really argue the points with him as he will just ban more because we argued :smallfrown:

Lord Tataraus
2007-09-11, 12:01 PM
Kick the guy. Seriously, if you are this angry at him don't put up with it. Tell him to shape up or he's out (of a DM role I mean). Why doesn't anyone else want to DM? Even if you threaten to leave the campaign the guy might drop all this crap, but if not leave him with his nerfs and play something else. Even if none of you thinks you can DM, I'm sure you can. I have always DMed my group except for 2 campaigns that did not last. The other players just thought they couldn't DM, but now I'm away at college so one player took the risk to try a game with new people (even though he was the one he always said he could never DM) and his game is going great. Sure, he calls me a lot to ask questions, get ideas, and clear up rules, but thats fine, everything is his idea and I make sure it all works for him and he has a blast.

psychoticbarber
2007-09-11, 12:01 PM
Ok, a second question... Why is this DM so hostile to full casters?

Probably because there are those who believe that to restore balance the Melee classes must be raised, and there are those who believe that casters must fall. I think he's just in the second group and doing it poorly.

I'm amazed that people suggested violence, passive aggressive solutions, and that the DM has "issues"; when the OP clearly stated that he's into the idea and wants suggestions on how to make it work.

With that out of the way...

@OP: You've got a couple options. Focus entirely on spell-casting, wildshape, and your animal companion is one. I kind of like this route, and you can do a lot of fun RP with it

NPC: "Belt of Giant's strength, 1500 gold pieces!"
Druid: "Why would you want that?"
NPC: "It makes me stronger. Why wouldn't you want that?"
"Druid: "I can become a bear, stronger than your belt will ever make you."
...etc.

You can try to reason with your DM for more reasonable restrictions. I'm not actually sure exactly what the restrictions are, or how zealously they're enforced, so it's possible that you won't have a lot of problems with it.

You can wear scale-mail (depending on level), made of the skin of a scaly creature like a dragon, you can ironwood the crap out of everything, and some Item descriptions for you:

Rings
Rings have no appreciable weight. Although exceptions exist that are crafted from glass or bone, the vast majority of rings are forged from metal—usually precious metals such as gold, silver, and platinum. A ring has AC 13, 2 hit points, hardness 10, and a break DC of 25.

Wands
A typical wand is 6 inches to 12 inches long and about ¼ inch thick, and often weighs no more than 1 ounce. Most wands are wood, but some are bone. A rare few are metal, glass, or even ceramic, but these are quite exotic.

As for a weapon, well, Quarterstaffs are wooden. You kinda get the short end of the stick here, but you're a druid, so if you're whacking something with a stick, you're probably doing something wrong.

Personally, when I DM, Druids have an aversion to touching metal, but nothing actually prevents them from doing it. If the restrictions is merely that you can't use worked metal, you're going to do just fine :smallsmile:.

draca
2007-09-11, 12:01 PM
It’s not metal itself that druids were ever opposed to. Metal is fine where it is. It was mining and smithing. It takes boring deep into an otherwise perfectly fine mountain to mine, not to mention a tremendous amount of wood for supports. Then there’s the runoff – heavy metal rich mud and slag sloughing off into stream everywhere.

Money being taboo makes even more sense from a sociological druid perspective then steel. The precious metals have always been “worth” so much more to humans then the environment, and the damage to the land from a mine is hellatious.

Silver and lead tend to naturally occur hand in hand, and silver extraction or “purification” was often done on sight, polluting the air and water even further.

Gold is even worse. If there is gold in an area, people will literally level mountains to get every last scrap (and have done so).

Steel too is kind of bad. Smelting iron leads to slag, which is typically tossed out. The water they use is dumped into streams. Etc. etc., I don’t think I need to go on.

Now if your DM wants that to be the perspective, I’d say roll with it. Is there some kind of modified version of Vow of Poverty that you could ask your DM for? Why should you care about money when you can make or grow or hunt anything you need to survive? Druids are awesome like that.

And Wealth isn’t so much opposed as the tainted currency that humans and other demi-humans like to represent it with. So, a magic item made of natural materials, or metal from a meteor, or materials gathered without scarring the planet would be fine.

Make any sense? Tell him you understand the idea, but don’t want to have that cripple your character. I’d ask for a perk to go with the bad.

psychoticbarber
2007-09-11, 12:04 PM
Kick the guy. Seriously, if you are this angry at him don't put up with it.

The OP never said he was angry. At all.

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom
2007-09-11, 12:06 PM
I think the solution is simple, just wear a pair of gloves all the time.

psychoticbarber
2007-09-11, 12:08 PM
I think the solution is simple, just wear a pair of gloves all the time.

That actually depends on the reasoning. I agree with Draca: "It’s not metal itself that druids were ever opposed to."

This would imply that Druids don't touch things manufactured out of metal because they have a psychological aversion to it. It rubs them the wrong way. Gloves aren't going to make that metal item any less made of metal.

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom
2007-09-11, 12:14 PM
That actually depends on the reasoning. I agree with Draca: "It’s not metal itself that druids were ever opposed to."

This would imply that Druids don't touch things manufactured out of metal because they have a psychological aversion to it. It rubs them the wrong way. Gloves aren't going to make that metal item any less made of metal.

But then druids wouldn't be able to use any metal weapons, and that's not the case since one of the most commonly used by druids are scimitars. As someone who plays druids on a semi regular basis, my take on it is that it has to resemble something in nature (as a scimitar resembles an animal claw in shape). That's the way I've always done things. The way Wraithy explained it is that he can't touch metal. When posed with that issue, I don't see why gloves wouldn't work just fine. I'd more info that what he originally said for that to be proven wrong. i can see where you're coming from though, because a druid could see mining for said metals could be considered destroying nature.

Tengu
2007-09-11, 12:19 PM
I'm amazed that people suggested violence, passive aggressive solutions, and that the DM has "issues"; when the OP clearly stated that he's into the idea and wants suggestions on how to make it work.


Because such suggestions are fun!

Now, the amount of fun tied up to the execution depends on your, and your DM's, running speed.

psychoticbarber
2007-09-11, 12:23 PM
But then druids wouldn't be able to use any metal weapons, and that's not the case since one of the most commonly used by druids are scimitars. As someone who plays druids on a semi regular basis, my take on it is that it has to resemble something in nature (as a scimitar resembles an animal claw in shape). That's the way I've always done things. The way Wraithy explained it is that he can't touch metal. When posed with that issue, I don't see why gloves wouldn't work just fine. I'd more info that what he originally said for that to be proven wrong. i can see where you're coming from though, because a druid could see mining for said metals could be considered destroying nature.

That's very true. I have an aversion to WotC's silly Druid rules (No metal!...except scimitars...), and I'm sorry to have jumped on you for having a differing expectation.

I don't think we quite have all the facts here, and I'm not positive that either of us can be right until we do :smallsmile:.

Kyle
2007-09-11, 01:12 PM
I've always felt druids should be able to get by rather handily in cities and towns for whatever short time it's necessary for them to be there, through barter or the offering their services.

Depending on how much downtime the characters have, or the amount of traveling they do, a druid character could easily establish themselves as a local figure; eccentric, but undoubtably beneficial. What farmer or vintner wouldn't be estatic to have a druid around casting Plant Growth on their crops? And surely the inn's chef would be most grateful for the occasional handful of Goodberrys to add to their dishes and desserts. Pest problems could be quickly taken care of with a minimum of mess, though the lecture about not creating the conditions which attract vermin in the first place may be a bit tedious. Free healing would likely not be turned down, though the local clergy might not be too happy about it.

I think the restriction is a bit silly, but nothing a well played druid shouldn't be able to work around without much difficulty.

Chaos Bringer
2007-09-11, 02:33 PM
I've always felt druids should be able to get by rather handily in cities and towns for whatever short time it's necessary for them to be there, through barter or the offering their services.


I agree. It seems sometimes that Druids get made out to be completely unsociable and dont like anything having to do with a city or almost anybody in general.

Leon
2007-09-11, 05:50 PM
As for a weapon, well, Quarterstaffs are wooden. You kinda get the short end of the stick here, but you're a druid, so if you're whacking something with a stick, you're probably doing something wrong.
.

the short end of the stick is a club

slexlollar89
2007-09-11, 07:43 PM
Nice pun!

A good waybto deal with the situation (if you are still a druid), is to wear hide armor, carry a greatclub (and cast the spell Shileglah or however you spell it) and the numerous spells that boost wooden weapons (from spell compendium). Also, you might want to have a strong animal companion for physical protection at early levels.

Seriously though, I say just be an archivist, because they can get ANY divine spell, and the DM has made restrictions for them, he he.

Kurald Galain
2007-09-12, 06:12 AM
ROL brings up a good point. You've got iron and other metals in your bloodstream. How will your DM handle that?

No, no no, as everybody knows druids have wood in their bloodstream. With splinters.

To quote Scar from the Lion King: idiots! There will be a DM! [eh, but you just said...] I will be DM! Stick with me and you'll never go clothed again! [yay...]


But yeah, you could simply get gemstones, I suppose. Plus, there's some cultures that use e.g. seashells as currency. Magical rings could feasibly be polished wood or stone, and instead of gloves you could use wrapped cloth, or leaves.

Alternatively, although this kind of stupid DM probably wouldn't allow it, you could get a first-level purification spell; because the druid is associated with metal, he feels unclean and has to do a purification rite every day at dawn. Flavorful without the stupid.

Wraithy
2007-09-12, 10:51 AM
The DM took away druid armour prof and banned the Archivist

Kyle
2007-09-12, 10:59 AM
Just for giggles you should ask if you can play a Commoner. Spend your one weapon proficiency on Longspear, and roleplay the character as bumbling hick who somehow got caught up with the rest of the characters and decided that "Bein' a 'venturer sure beats plowin' fields." Spend your 5d4 worth of gold on a mule and pot for a helmet.

Afraidofsharpie
2007-09-12, 11:25 AM
It's been said before but honestly why?

I mean its all fine and dandy if this guy wants to nerf two classes back into the stone ages, but if thats the case then why bother trying to make something like that work? I can understand that you may like the challenge presented and at some level it might be fun to role play but the kind of nerf he did on the Cleric and Druid is pretty much saying to the Fighter, okay because you get so many feats from your class you don't get any level based feats.

On a method to make it work, try going the pacifist route and work on the healing and crowd control situation.

Renx
2007-09-12, 11:27 AM
Just out of curiosity, what other "nerfs" is your DM implementing?

Wraithy
2007-09-12, 11:43 AM
clerics and druids cannot wear armour, any spells/abilities fail automatically if they do.
clerics have worst attack bonus and d4 hit die.
the archivist - banned
a huge list of arcane spells (including the entire polymorph subschool) - banned
but there might be even more things banned, I've really stopped asking him.

@Afraidofsharpie: as platinumjester said, this is a backup character, it probably won't see play untill the other DM starts his campaign.

hippie_dwarf
2007-09-12, 01:22 PM
I have to ask you: Why are you all playing with him as the DM in the first place? .

He was actually quite a good DM as far as the actual campagn goes last time he did it. I just think he took this nerfing spree OTT.

Chaos Bringer
2007-09-12, 01:25 PM
Magical rings could feasibly be polished wood or stone,

Alternatively, although this kind of stupid DM probably wouldn't allow it, you could get a first-level purification spell; because the druid is associated with metal, he feels unclean and has to do a purification rite every day at dawn. Flavorful without the stupid.

Problem with the rings are POLISHED. As in refined, therefore not allowed. And with all the banned spells i'd bet anything to make this poor druids life easier like Purification (i would allow it, great idea) would be top of the list.

PlatinumJester
2007-09-12, 01:31 PM
The DM took away druid armour prof and banned the Archivist

The archivist isn't banned just nerfed.
It now has
D4 HD
Crap fort and 1 less daily use of level 1-7 spells, and 2 less daily uses of level 8-9 spells.
No armour/shield proficiencies.

My guy was originally an Archivist but nerfing put me off so I became a duskblade and then Warblade. If you don't like the druid then player a ranger (if you want to play a tree hugger) or one of the classes from Complete Divine.

Most of the nerfs don't affect us (at this moment) and in fact benefit us since it makes enemes weaker.

Kurald Galain
2007-09-12, 05:39 PM
Problem with the rings are POLISHED.

So take a self-bored stone :smalltongue:

Chaos Bringer
2007-09-12, 06:11 PM
So take a self-bored stone :smalltongue:

oooh I wonder if you could make an unrefined metal ring. Something like that could work, it just wouldnt be pretty. Hehe depending on how rough it was you could call it a fist weapon.