Mitigating the suckage of a wizard/monk multiclass character

[Bosh]

I'll be playing in my second 5ed campaign soon. In the first one I got an undeserved reputation as a minmax wizard due to my rogue/barbarian having the wolf totem ability that turned my character into a walking advantage generator which was probably as valuable as the rest of my character's abilities combined due to my party being really melee heavy. So for this campaign the GM has given me the optional challenge of spinning straw into gold and turning a wizard/monk multiclass character into something workable. I'm going to try to rise to the challenge.

Here are my current thoughts:

1. Party role: it seems that I could eke out a party role as an AC-based tank. Use some wizard battlefield control spells to help with that and then jack up my AC as high as possible (dex+wisdom+Kensai Agile Parry+War Magic Arcane Deflection+Patient Defense) which should make my defenses OK despite having low Con due to the horrific MAD this build would involve. The other half of being a tank is keeping people focused on me rather than on people with worse defenses, for that I have wizard battlefield control spells and booming blade and not much else. Not a powerhouse but at least that's something.

2. Hacking the action economy: to get the most out of the monk and wizard halves of this character I'd have to rely a lot on spells that don't eat up my in-combat actions. Reaction spells are worth their weight in gold here, things like absorb elements. Bonus action spells are good here as well but not quite as good as I can't cast them and use some of my ki abilities in the same round. Shadowblade looks like a decent combat buff that I can call up with a bonus action and Find Familiar is always useful. Create Bonfire looks like a good cantrip as I can keep is going with concentration.

3. Not being driven MAD. This is an insanely MAD build so I've got to do my best to mitigate that. Rerem115's idea to get my hands on a headband of intellect is great and I'll try for that ASAP. Dex is obviously going to be a priority for this build while strength and charisma have to be dumped hard. By bumping up my AC as high as possible I can hopefully avoid having to rely too much on Con but I can't dump Con of course. Between Wis and Int, Wis would give me AC and some Ki stuff while Int gives me my wizard saving throughs and initiative due to War Magic. Am thinking of prioritzing Wis over Int due to really needing all of the AC I can squeeze out of this build so: Dex > Wis > Int > Con > Str > Cha. For race I'm tempted to take the non-variant human just to throw a lot of points at my ability scores.

4. Any ideas for order in which to take the levels? Very much doubt this campaign will go to level 20 so want to look hard at making it functional at low levels.

[Rerem115]

A Headband of Intellect is your friend. Ask if you can have that handle one stat while you focus more on monk shenanigans.

[Brightersidegam]

My recommendation, to avoid MADness, is to forget about int you have to make it 13 (for multi-class rules) but just leave it there, and just make the character like you would any other monk. One must remember that there are a TON of good wizard spells that don't require your ability modifier to be potent. Shield, magic missile, fog cloud, and haste to name a few. Yes, even a wizard can dump stat intelligence and be fine.

It might not be a bad idea to go with the school of divination, portent is super powerful, and does not run of your intelligence. Plus, Thematically, I could see a monk diviner. But even the school of abrasion isn't bad for the extra hp it gives (even with s low amount of int.) Just look for spells that don't have saves (buffs, mostly, and magic missile)

So if you're going with standard array. I feel the stats could look something like this and be fine:
S: 8. D: 15. Co: 12/14. I: 13. W: 12/14. Ch: 10

Of course, I forget how many standard monk abilities are based off their wisdom, so you can flip con or wisdom depending on how you feel about that. Same goes with charisma and strength, but I find a higher charisma is usually better.

[PeteNutButter]

Dump int and wisdom to 13s. Max dex and get a good con. Being pure AC based just doesn’t work. You’ll end up getting crit and going down all the time. That’s the same problem a bladesinger has.

Just use mage armor. Wisdom is basically worthless outside the stun DC, so just don’t bother. Mage armor is the same as 16 wisdom until your third ASI where you would potentially pump it. You should be able to get 16 dex 14 con 14 int and 13 wis with a point to spare. If you go Kensei 5/bladesinger 4 you’ll have a 22 AC when bladesinging with the Kensei +2. Bonus action dodge makes you super hard to hit but if you have to the 14 con lets you take a hit or two.

Alter self is a cool buff that makes your unarmed strikes +1 weapons for an hour (and makes you wolverine). Haste is your big guns once you get it.

[Brightersidegam]

I'm beginning to think this isn't suckage at all. There are a TON of spells that a monk could cast on themself that every monk dreams about. Alter self, enlarge, haste, plus, even if you play greedy and just buff yourself, you save your spell caster their concentration slot for other spells (colab with them, enlarge yourself and ask him to hold person while you provide the beat down)

[Grod_The_Giant]

Depends on which class you want to emphasize.

A quick Monk dip on, say, a Bladesinger wouldn't be too bad. As long as you don't care too much about Monk special abilities, Mage Armor will be plenty on the AC front, and getting some better Dex-based attack power is solid. A High Elf with 16 Dex and 14 Int/Wis/Con works well enough; if your DM will lift the racial restriction, Lizardfolk is even fiercer-- 15 Int/Dex/Con and 13 Wis, with a high base unarmored AC and 1d6 unarmed strikes.
If you're going for a primary Monk build, something like, oh, vHuman with 16 Dex and Wis, 13 Int, 12 Con, and the Tough feat should leave you high and pretty; War Wizard makes a real nice dip when "can't cast a spell next turn" isn't a problem.

[jaappleton]

Oh, my friend.... This is gold.

How?

Well, you may think of trying for a Headband if Intellect and going Monk / Bladesinger. And that’s not bad. Not bad at all.

But I’d caution against that, and instead go for an often overlooked but AMAZING Wizard subclass:

Diviner.

Go Variant Human. I think that’s a solid option here. What’s your Feat? Lucky.

Some of you already see where I’m going with this.

Many Monk abilities, especially the deadliest ones, rely on the enemy to make a saving throw.

You control 5 of them per day.

[Malifice]

Wood Elf - Starting array:

S 8
D 14 (16)
C 12
I 14
W 15 (16)
Ch 8

Kensai Monk, Bladesinger. Id look for an 8/12 split. Max dexterity, then Wisdom. Room to get Int to 16 if you dont want to go the Headband route. You'll be using shortswords till 3rd as Monk then you can use a Katana (Longsword) with Dexterity.

Shadow Monk/ Blade Dancer makes an interesting combo as well. A Ninja thematically.

Shadowblade (from the spell) is a simple weapon (thus it's a Monk weapon).

[Bosh]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. It seems I have two main ways forward to get out from under the millstone of MAD: focus on wisdom or focus on intelligence.

With intelligence focus I should mostly ignore wisdom and take blade dancer to get Int to AC and has mage armor.

With wisdom focus I should boost wisdom enough to help with AC and various ki abilities.

The issue I'm seeing with the int focus is that I'm basically minmaxing the wizard half of the build with good stuff like diviner (love the portent ability) or blade dancer to mitigate the damage done by the subpar monk half of the build which is mostly just a millstone around the build's neck.

With the wisdom focus the character would be mostly a monk with some wizard spells in reserve for tricks and buffs. There are plenty of good wizard spells that don't rely on Int that could bolster a monk. Then eventually track down a headband of intellect to get decent Int later in the campaign if the DM is cooperative.

A lot of wizard spells look very good on paper for a monk but run into problems with the action economy in that if I'm taking an action to cast a spell in combat I'm not doing anything else, so the spells I'd use would be mostly out of combat, buffs or the few spells that can be cast with a reaction.

For AC-based tanking I'm horrifically vulernable to crits as AMPeteNutButter points out. I can mitigate that a bit by using Patient Defense as it's very unlikely that someone attacking me with disadvantage is doing to crit me. Also on a metagame level I predict that the DM will have few fights per day vs. few but powerful opponents which means that leaning on Patient Defense to help me tank would work better than in another campaign. Not really ideal but maybe I can make it work.

Unless I roll crap stats (going to be rolling, not point buy or array). In that case I'll pack it in an make a diviner wizard since the portent ability is just that awesome.

[Malifice]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. It seems I have two main ways forward to get out from under the millstone of MAD: focus on wisdom or focus on intelligence.

With intelligence focus I should mostly ignore wisdom and take blade dancer to get Int to AC and has mage armor.

With Wisdom focus you get AC that is always on (isnt 2/ short rest, and requing mobility and a bonus action to use).

You can easily get by with an Int of 14.

A Wizard 2/ Monk 1 (Wood Elf, W 16, D 16, I 14) has an AC of 16 (18 with blade dance) 23 with shield.

Spam shield, sleep (no save DC) and magic missile. All solid options at your level.

Note that Martial Arts and Flurry does not play nice with Greenflame blade/ Booming blade. The Cantrip is cast using the 'Cast a Spell' action and not the 'Attack' action, so if you use the cantrip you miss out on your bonus action attack from Martial Arts and Flurry of blows.

[Rerem115]

Note that Martial Arts and Flurry does not play nice with Greenflame blade/ Booming blade. The Cantrip is cast using the 'Cast a Spell' action and not the 'Attack' action, so if you use the cantrip you miss out on your bonus action attack from Martial Arts and Flurry of blows.

The fact that this doesn't work makes me sad. I just got an image in my head of Ridcully stabbing someone with a glowing sword and then kicking them in the nads. Just for rule of cool, ask your DM if you can use Martial Arts/Flurry of Blows with SCAG cantrips.

[Malifice]

The fact that this doesn't work makes me sad. I just got an image in my head of Ridcully stabbing someone with a glowing sword and then kicking them in the nads. Just for rule of cool, ask your DM if you can use Martial Arts/Flurry of Blows with SCAG cantrips.

Yeah, it's rough in this build.

Personally I'd probably simply create something thematic instead of starting with the mechanics.

Examples include a Long death monk/ Necromancer.

[Bosh]

With Wisdom focus you get AC that is always on (isnt 2/ short rest, and requing mobility and a bonus action to use).

You can easily get by with an Int of 14.

A Wizard 2/ Monk 1 (Wood Elf, W 16, D 16, I 14) has an AC of 16 (18 with blade dance) 23 with shield.

Spam shield, sleep (no save DC) and magic missile. All solid options at your level.

Note that Martial Arts and Flurry does not play nice with Greenflame blade/ Booming blade. The Cantrip is cast using the 'Cast a Spell' action and not the 'Attack' action, so if you use the cantrip you miss out on your bonus action attack from Martial Arts and Flurry of blows.

Ah, right, of course, that kneecaps the tanking ability of this build.

Still the combo of shield and getting dodge as a bonus action is a fun "you can't touch this" dance.

So elvish blade dancer seems a good choice if I'm an elf. If I'm not an elf the best choice seems to be war magic to eke out any AC I can.

For character concept I'm going with Abe Simpson + Iroh from Avatar. Claims to have once been a great archmage who was cursed to lose his power and tells long rambling stories about his glory days.

Has very little power left but is more than just a senile blowhard.

[Ceder]

It is going to be a tough haul because you will be starved for spell levels and ki points. I personally would dump int and go full buff and utility. Less dependant on saves, and less dependant on your likely sub par spell levels.
Another choice that might help is Abjuration and allow the Arcane Ward to act as a hit point buffer. Its even more fun if you use magic initiate to pick up Armor of Agathys. Arcane Ward + temp HP + a reactive damage shield. Recharge your ward in between fights with ritual Alarm cheese.
Dunno if that helps.

[xyianth]

I'm just going to suggest something very different, feel free to ignore if you can't make use of UA material or it doesn't fit your idea for a character.

bugbear race (Volo)
standard array stats: 15(17) str, 12(13) dex, 10 con, 13 int, 14 wis, 8 cha
long death monk 5 (SCAG)
artificer wizard 2 (UA eberron)
brawny feat(+1 str)

Your wizard levels let you make potions of growth by expending a 1st level slot, which gives you enlarge without concentration for 1d4 hours each. You can make up to 3 at a time. Enlarge makes you large size, giving you +5' reach, +1d4 damage, doubled carry capacity, and advantage on strength checks.
Your monk levels give you 7 temp hp when you down an opponent, athletics proficiency, extra attack, and the ability to make 1-2 attacks as a bonus action.
Your race gives you an additional +5' reach during your turn and powerful build.
Brawny gives you expertise with athletics and a second powerful build effect. It also boosts you to 18 strength.

As a result, you can initiate grapples at up to 15' away, shove the enemy prone and hold them 10' away from you while you pummel them for 1d6+1d4+4 per hit. Your grapple/shove checks are made at +10 with advantage. If you wish to move creatures about after grappling them, you have the carrying capacity of a gargantuan creature with an 18 strength. (2160 lbs)

Look out for defensive items as your AC is only 13 and your con and hp are low for a melee character. Your extended range and temp hp generation can help mitigate that weakness somewhat though.

If you can roll for stats or use point buy, you can make this better. Stat priority is str>wis>con>dex>int>cha, but you need 13+ dex, int, and wis. If you can't quite manage that but are starting at level 9+, grab an extra ASI to qualify.

[MagneticKitty]

Tortle monk wiz.
Str > con > int > wis > dex > cha
Something like
14 +2 str
10 con
15 int
12 +1 wis
13 dex (If your dm allows str monks and str as a mc prerequisite swap dex and con)
8 cha

Prioritiz str and con then int.
Abjuration wiz / tranquility monk for self healing 10 x monk level
slashing claws natural weapons.
Natural 17 ac.
Just enough int for the utility you want, heavier leaning to monk.
Do I get bonus points for uniqueness of build? lol

[Vogie]

I'd also suggest Kensai/Bladesinger, putting your big scores in Dex and Wis, and just enough Int to MC.

Raw Kensai, having 16 Dex, 16 Wis, and Agile Parry, you'll have 18 AC. Bladesong will bump it up to 19 as early as level 5, Which ain't shabby considering you're naked save your Rapier.

Once you pick up a headband of intellect, your bladesong will be able to kick you up to 22 AC without spending spell slots.

Picking up the Defensive Duelist feat will allow you to add your Prof bonus to your AC as a reaction, which is better than the War Wizard's Arcane deflection AC-wise, because it scales with your level.

You'll want to push your Wis up first, followed by Dex, for both Saving throws and additional AC. If you happen to pick up a Bracers of Defense, It'd actually free up 2 ASIs that'd normally go to Wis or Dex for AC purposes, allowing you to pick up feats or put more points into CON (or do both with Resilient Constitution).

If, for whatever reason, you can start with the Headband of Intellect, you could choose a different Monastic Archetype. Either Long Death for the THP, or Open hand to burn through Legendary Resistances faster (You wouldn't be stuck with a shortsword because you can still choose rapier with Training in War and Song feature)