Help with this Paladin/Sorcerer

[Aleister VII]

Hey everyone I'm struggling to make a nice level 17 Sorcadin, I've read some guides and they're amazing but are almost only focused in full level 20 Builds while what I'm trying to do is a level 17 PC that'll most likely not even reach level 18.

So... Here's what I have so far:
11 levels Paladin to get improved divine smite and two attacks.
6 levels of Sorcerer to get Metamagics like quickened and maybe twinned OR Heightened spell, I also aim to use my spells mainly to buff myself and to get some utility.

My concerns are... DEX or STR? Sword and board or each/heavy weapon?

What oath and origin take? I'm thinking in oath of vengeance for the channel divinity and hunter's mark and divine soul to get some cleric exclusive spells... but then again Paladin already has some cleric spells in it's list so not sure if this is redundant x.x dragon seems like a waste since I'm already got proficiency in all the armors, wild magic is cool but it's not what I'm looking for a multi class and I don't like storm or shadow sorcerer too much.

Also the campaign in which I'll be using this PC is giving some magic items right from the start but I'm not familiar with magic items at all so I'll like some suggestions, to be exact they're 3 common, 2 uncommon and a single rare magic item, my best bet are + weapons and armors or shields (if I happen to use a shield).

As for feats War caster looks like a must, I'm so far leaning towards half elf (most flexible race in the PHB IMO) but I'm getting too MAD or need a feat too badly I may as well go for Variant human.

So what do you think?

[djreynolds]

Hey everyone I'm struggling to make a nice level 17 Sorcadin, I've read some guides and they're amazing but are almost only focused in full level 20 Builds while what I'm trying to do is a level 17 PC that'll most likely not even reach level 18.

So... Here's what I have so far:
11 levels Paladin to get improved divine smite and two attacks.
6 levels of Sorcerer to get Metamagics like quickened and maybe twinned OR Heightened spell, I also aim to use my spells mainly to buff myself and to get some utility.

My concerns are... DEX or STR? Sword and board or each/heavy weapon?

What oath and origin take? I'm thinking in oath of vengeance for the channel divinity and hunter's mark and divine soul to get some cleric exclusive spells... but then again Paladin already has some cleric spells in it's list so not sure if this is redundant x.x dragon seems like a waste since I'm already got proficiency in all the armors, wild magic is cool but it's not what I'm looking for a multi class and I don't like storm or shadow sorcerer too much.

Also the campaign in which I'll be using this PC is giving some magic items right from the start but I'm not familiar with magic items at all so I'll like some suggestions, to be exact they're 3 common, 2 uncommon and a single rare magic item, my best bet are + weapons and armors or shields (if I happen to use a shield).

As for feats War caster looks like a must, I'm so far leaning towards half elf (most flexible race in the PHB IMO) but I'm getting too MAD or need a feat too badly I may as well go for Variant human.

So what do you think?

Stay strength and do not worry, go S&B or greatsword or polearm

IMO dump dexterity and wear heavy armor

A heightened hold person is very nasty

For magic items, winged boots are uncommon... to easy

Helm of teleportation and then just a +1 weapon

I like devotion paladin, charm and fear suck, and I like sacred weapon

Also, GWM feat is awesome and remember the bonus action attack for crits/killing doesn't need a heavy weapon and with smiting you can often kill stuff in one attack, its only for the +10 damage, so you are not gimped by taking this feat into using only heavy weapons

Aside from leveling.... that's on you. But I would begin paladin for at least 2 levels, and then grab sorcerer for 3.... now you can smite and have some metamagic.

War Caster and Half-elf are good ideas

[Citan]

Hey everyone I'm struggling to make a nice level 17 Sorcadin, I've read some guides and they're amazing but are almost only focused in full level 20 Builds while what I'm trying to do is a level 17 PC that'll most likely not even reach level 18.

So... Here's what I have so far:
11 levels Paladin to get improved divine smite and two attacks.
6 levels of Sorcerer to get Metamagics like quickened and maybe twinned OR Heightened spell, I also aim to use my spells mainly to buff myself and to get some utility.

My concerns are... DEX or STR? Sword and board or each/heavy weapon?

What oath and origin take? I'm thinking in oath of vengeance for the channel divinity and hunter's mark and divine soul to get some cleric exclusive spells... but then again Paladin already has some cleric spells in it's list so not sure if this is redundant x.x dragon seems like a waste since I'm already got proficiency in all the armors, wild magic is cool but it's not what I'm looking for a multi class and I don't like storm or shadow sorcerer too much.

Also the campaign in which I'll be using this PC is giving some magic items right from the start but I'm not familiar with magic items at all so I'll like some suggestions, to be exact they're 3 common, 2 uncommon and a single rare magic item, my best bet are + weapons and armors or shields (if I happen to use a shield).

As for feats War caster looks like a must, I'm so far leaning towards half elf (most flexible race in the PHB IMO) but I'm getting too MAD or need a feat too badly I may as well go for Variant human.

So what do you think?
Hi!

So you're going Oath of Vengeance, I'll use this as a basis, altough this would not have necessarily my prime recommendation.

Choice of Sorcerer Origin
If you go for level 6, Shadow is by far your best option. Reasons for that?
- Draconic brings potentially redundant armor (unless you go DEX), extra damage on one element (but you'll probably use more slots on Divine Smite or Smite spells, and the extra damage on those is just a nice goody, but not enough to make it a reason to invest).
- Divine Soul brings a bit of extra healing and... That's it, EXCEPT you can also get very good spells: Warding Bond would help you protect a squishy, Spirit Guardians would help you keep your Oath enemy close while you smite him.
- Wild Magic can be very workeable if you just want extra slots for smite and very occasional magic, otherwise I'd advise against it unless you feel very lucky in general OR you actually plan on using it (like "Fireball on me? Who cares, I'm the only frontliner anyways, + I have Aura of Protection -note that if you really wanted to do that, I'd strongly recommend Ancients Oath instead).
- Storm brings a bit of extra movement for when you would use Thunderous Smite or such, but is otherwise not enough imo because you didn't express particular taste for storm thematic.

Shadow otherwise is the best by far:
- Darkness you can see through
- Extra save when going to 0 HP, for free, once per long rest (in my memories it was unlimited I guess I recalled the UA version, good thing they changed that it was stupidly overpowered).
- A 3SP hound that imposes disadvantage permanently on any spell you cast (including your Paladin spells). The only drawback is that it will compete with Vengeance's Oath bonus action features and possibly GWM (more on that).


So basically either Divine Soul because you specifically want some Cleric exclusive spells OR you wanted Vengeance to use its bonus action features, otherwise Shadow all the way.

Choice of Metamagics
If you pick Divine Soul yet want to use single-target debuff spells, then Heightened Metamagic is worth. Otherwise pick another.
As good as Quicken may be, it's obviously out here since, between Vengeance's CD/Hunter's Mark, Paladin smite spells and possibly Shadow's Hound (plus possibly bonus action spells like Misty Step or Divine Soul's Healing Words/Sanctuary) you have largely enough bonus actions as it is.
Same with Empowered, you probably won't cast enough big damage spells for it to be worthy enough.
Same with Distant, because you won't use spells that could benefit from it (smite spells depend on weapon in first place, Hunter's Mark has enough range, Haste is no question...)

If you pick Divine Soul and want to support your party, Extended upcast Aid/Warding Bond/Mage Armor is worth.
If you want to learn some utility spells from Sorcerer to use stealthily, or if you're the only one that could use Counterspell, then Subtle is worth.

As far as Twin goes, for your character it's probably an obvious first pick, especially if your DM agrees that it works with smite spells (I honestly don't know what RAW would be here because the effect is instantaenous but the triggerS would necessarily happen at different time since you would need to make two different weapon attacks: so allowing twin smite spells is probably houserule, I would allow it myself though).
Even without, between Cure Wounds, Shield of Faith, Hunter's Mark (not sure, plz someone confirm it's compatible -even if not necessarily a good tactic), Mage Armor, Darkvision, Enhance Ability, Enlarge, Invisibility, Haste (from Paladin)...

Plus the obvious basic "twin Booming Blade" (again, provided your DM agrees with twin being compatible with effects triggering on weapon attacks) makes it a metamagic you can use as conservely or as expensively as possible.

So unless you didn't plan on using any of those spells and/or DM bans its use with weapon-related spells, Twin will be something usable in a variety of situations.

Choice of split
Paladin 11's improved damage is nice. If you plan on using as many weapon attacks as possible, it's the good route.
However, it also means you only get 3rd level spells from both classes, and between Twin and possibly Hound your SP would deplete quickly.

So, it may be worth to grab Paladin 10 / Sorcerer 7 instead, so you can grab two 4th level spells (Polymorph, Greater Invisibility, Banishment) to combine with Twin or Hound (or both, for a big "nova for win" move).

Choice of spells
Confer above for suggestions of Sorcerer spells, as for Paladin I think you had a pretty good idea already (Oath spells, I'd suggest in addition Bless, Cure Wounds -only if nobody else can heal with spells-, Shield of Faith, Aura of Vitality, Elemental Weapon -you never know-, Compelled Duel, Command, smite spells).

Choice of stat
I'd usually prefer DEX, but STR does have its fortes if I may. ^^
STR benefits...
- GWM extra damage that you can use reliably against your Oath enemy of when you can land a smite spell that provides advantage (Blinding Smite, Blindness) or if you use one weapon attack to Shove.
- Also compatible with Polearm Master.
- And +1 AC thanks to heavy armor.
- And better resistance against STR effects (restrain, pushed prone/away, etc).
- If you go two-handed weapons you don't need Warcaster (although you probably want it anwyays).

However...
- Bonus action from GWM or Polearm Master will compete heavily turn on turn with everything you have as Paladin/Sorcerer already! I'd daresay it will be wasted often.
- You will have bad Initiative unless you are lucky, which will be a big problem if you want to use Twin.
- You will kinda suck at DEX saves even with Aura, which may or not be a problem depending on the kind of campaign.

DEX benefits:
- High Initiative! If you plan on using Twin to buff allies, you *really want* to be first in line (especially for Touch-based spells).
Samely, if you know you have a spell that has high chance of working on enemies, or if you know you have to potential to kill a creature in a single round, acting in the first may change the balance strongly.
- High Evasion! With DEX + Aura + Absorb Elements from Sorcerers, you won't be afraid of any DEX effect coming your way, without even Shield Master.
- Stealth possibility (paired with Darkness or Invisibility you could set up ambushes)

However...
- You still need 13 STR for multiclass, so you add some MADness.
- You don't get particular boons for your build beyond what's listed since you don't multiclass in DEX classes.

So for your character, STR is probably the most efficient since you don't plan on being especially sneaky.
UNLESS, of course, DM gives you the choice of which magic items: in which case grab a Belt of Giant Strenght, problem solved: start with 14 STR and 14 DEX.
I still stand by the point you want a high Initiative, so I'd strongly recommend Alert feat, confer next point.

Choice of feats
As said above, PAM's main benefit for that "bonus-action crowded" benefit will be the extension of OA trigger. Not enough in my book.
Same for GWM's bonus action extra attack. However the extra damage may still make it worthy, if you go two-handed.

Otherwise, I'd pick Alert and Warcaster, first for Initiative, second for better concentration on your spells and being able to go sword and board (and boost damage on OA with Booming Blade), and bump CHA by 2.
Especially if you get an item that gives you high STR anyways.

So my suggestion would be Alert whatever happens, then Warcaster or GWM depending on your style.

----
Note that all this are suggestions made on the following assumptions:
1. You plan on being in melee often, using features to get advantage to offset a possibly lowish attack stat (if no item to boost to-hit).
2. You plan on using Twin often.
3. You plan on splitting slots around 70% spells / 30% smite on hit.

There are actually many different ways to build your character, especially on spell selection. :) So if I was wrong on your character concept, feel free to disregard my whole post and go with your gut.
TBH, with a Paladin / Sorcerer, you basically can't go wrong whatever you make anyways. ^^