PDA

View Full Version : DM Help Some Homebrew Paladin Oaths



Chaosmancer
2018-07-01, 04:59 PM
So, a friend of mine has been working on creating some Paladin oaths. He has not gotten any level abilities, simply the Tenents, Oath Spells, and Channel Divinity options, but he wanted me to go ahead and put these out here and get some more eyes on them, since the community tends to have a more discerning eye.

There is also a Homebrewery link here (http://http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HJbOH_lyX)if people would like to look at that instead of the text.


Oath of the Hedge Knight

Sacred Tenents

The ideals of the Hedge Knight vary from person to person, but these are the most common ideals of those who follow this oath.


Wanderer You live on the road. You might stay in one place for a while but no matter how long it is just a temporary reprieve from the road.


Prepared for Departure You are always ready to leave. Material possessions are a hinderance to your travels and the road is too harsh a place for luxury. The gear you carry is heavy enough no need to increase your burden.


Peace and Justice Do not seek to impose your will an morals on others. However, if you are looked upon to settle a dispute try to have both parties come to a mutual agreement rather than one force its will upon the other. Use the wisdom you have gained in your travels to help them settle the disagreement.


Share the Road You are not the only one who uses the road. Merchants, travelers, soldiers, mercenaries, thieves: all make use of it as well. Be courteous to those who you share the road with and protect the path they walk.


Return to the Straight and Narrow There are people who you meet that have lost their way. Help them return to the path that life has set before them.


Oath Spells


Paladin Level Spell

3rd Sanctuary, Ceremony
5th Prayer of Healing, Find Steed
9th Thunder Step, Magic Circle
13th Find person, Freedom of Movement
17th Geas, Passwall


Channel Divinity

When you take this oath at 3rd level, you gain the following two channel divinity options.


Unhindered Journey As an action you raise your holy symbol and offer a prayer of freedom. You can target a number of creatures within 60' equal to your charisma modifier. Spells and effects that paralyze, restrain, paralyze or petrify automatically end.


Road's Gullet As an action you can raise your holy symbol and command the road to swallow your enemies. Choose a number of creatures equal to your charisma modifier that you can see within 60' that are on solid ground (Any surfce more than 1 foot thick); these creatures make a dexterity saving throw, the DC is equal to your spell save DC. Creatures on a paved road have disadvantage on this throw, on an unpaved path or dirt road have a -2 penalty on this throw. Creatures with a fly speed have advantage on this thorw, creatures larger than medium have advantage on this throw,

On a failed save the ground opens up and swallows the creature. The creature is restrained and starts suffocating (a suffocating creature can survive for a number of rounds equal to its constitution modifer (minimum of 1), on the next round it falls to 0 hp and is dying). A creature can make a strength saving throw equal to your spell save DC at the begining of their turn to end this effect or another creature can use thier action to make an athletics check to either let the suffocating creature breath for a turn (DC -3) or pull the creature out.




Personally, this might be my favorite out of the three. The idea of the vagrant do-gooder appeals to me a lot.

Road's Gullet is a new addition, I'm personally nervous about it's power, do to the potential for suffocation. I'm not overly concerned with the fiddliness of the modifiers, I know it goes against traditional 5e design philosophy but it isn't something I want to focus a lot on.


Oath of the Penitent

Sacred Tenet's

These tenets are not wholly universal to those who take this Oath however they follow similar guide lines.


Protect the Innocence there are people who will never hold a weapon or know bloodshed. Your duty is to keep them ignorant from the strife and pain of conflict.


Beyond Redemption Something that have done can never be erased or eased. An indelible mark of defilement has tainted your soul and corrupted your being. You won't be redeemed for your actions, but your salvation lies in the lives you save from your same fate.


Second Chance There are very few truly evil beings in this world. Stay your blade and allow a single chance for repentance. There are no third chances


Merciful End Do not bring undue harm to even the most wicked and wretched opponent.


More than a Blade There is more that you can do than stand on blood-soaked battlefields and die in infested halls. Master a tradecraft or skill and make more out of your life. Pass on this knowledge: for one day when the last war is fought, the trades of peace are more valuable than the sharpest blade.

Oath Spells


Paladin Level Spell

3rd Command, Inflict Wounds
5th Darkness, Bane
9th Enemies Abound, Haste
13th Compulsion, Hallucinatory Terrain
17th Dominate Person, Enervation


Channel Divinity

When you take this oath at 3rd level, you gain the following two channel divinity options.


Fall to Chaos As an action, you present your holy symbol and speak a prayer of damnation, using your holy symbol. Choose a number of creatures up to your charisma modifier (minimum of 1) to make a charisma saving throw. Creatures you are already in combat with or who dislike you have disadvantage on this throw. Creatures immune to being charmed automatically succeed on this check.


On a failed save, the creatures spends its next turn moving toward you by the most direct route. Until they are within melee range they are only able to use the dash action. They will move around obviously hostile terrain but will still provoke opportunity attacks. These creatures have disadvantage to attack anyone else and cannot gain advantage on their attacks due to flanking. When they are in melee range they use their action to make as many melee attacks on you as they can. These attacks cannot gain the benifit of any additional abilities, such as rouge's sneak attack or wolf's pack tactics. They can repeat the save at the end of their turn but, if they were dealt damage by you this round they make the save at disadvantage. After one minute this effect ends.


A Cross to Bear As a bonus action, you cradle your holy symbol and whisper a prayer of strength. For the next ten minutes, you ignore detrimental effects of cursed items you are carrying, curses you are under, and have resistance to damage done by hexes and magical traps. Any conditions you are under the effect of are postponed for ten minutes.



Originally this one was called the Oath of the Damned, but I prefer this new flavor. Also, the Channel Divinity now called "Fall to Chaos" is both a really cool aggro ability and just evokes incredibly thematic scenes for this kind of Paladin.


Oath of the Blind Eye

Sacred Tenet's

Secrecy and Silence Keep what you know to yourself as much as possible. The more who know the better the chance that someone or something with evil intent will hear. Only two can keep a secret if one of them is dead.


Blissful Ignorance The secrets you keep and destroy make life easier, more peaceful, and happier for those who never knew the horrors you keep locked away.


Seek the Wicked There are many sources of evil and wicked knowledge in this world. Listen to the whispers in the shadows and seek their source. No theory to outlandish no trail to cold.


Liars Bane Those who speak falsehoods, especially malevolently or for their own gain, should be taught the error in their ways.


Sow Good Seeds On your travels you will find people that can benefit from what you know. Good people can do a lot with good knowledge, teach those who will listen and pass the good word on.



Oath Spells

Paladin Level Spell

3rd Comprehend Languages, Identify
5th Knock, Misty Step
9th Dispel Magic, Spirit Guardians
13th Arcane Eye, Speak with Dead
17th Synaptic Static, Legend Lore



Channel Divinity

Hear no Evil, See no Evil For the next minute hostile creatures that enter within 10' of you need to make a charisma saving throw equal to your spell save DC. On a failed save the creature is blinded and deafened. An effected creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of their turn.


Think No Evil Choose a number of creatures equal to your charisma modifier within 60' of you. These creatures make a intelligence saving throw equal to your spell save DC or be stunned for 1 minute.




The one I've worked with him the least on. An important editing note, both of the channel divinities for this oath should have the save repeated at the end of the creature's turn. I did not edit this myself, because I don't know if he will edit the primary document before people see it and I did not want too different versions in case they did.


Please let us know what you think and how these might be improved, or if they look good enough for the table.

Chaosmancer
2018-07-06, 03:16 PM
Well, this is kind of embarrassing. Told me friend I'd get some feedback for him, but not getting any bites

Oramac
2018-07-06, 03:44 PM
Pretty cool ideas. Thematically, I like them all.

All of them need to explicitly state whether they require an Action, Bonus Action, or Reaction. I'd personally make them all an Action.

Unhindered Journey: I like it. Seems ok to me.

Road's Gullet: Definitely too strong. And you're right about the modifiers being fiddly, but that's easy enough to work around.

Fall to Chaos: Thematically, super cool. Mechanically, WAAAAAAAAAY overpowered. Like, broken kinds of overpowered. Definitely tone it down.

A Cross to Bear: Not overly useful in most games, but thematically very cool. I like it.

Hear No evil: Again, thematically really cool, but still very powerful. Blinded especially is a strong condition. I'd make it a Con save instead of Charisma. Should help the power level a bit.

Think no Evil: Probably the most balanced option. The Int save is thematically appropriate, though it does make it more powerful as Int is a relatively uncommon save.

furby076
2018-07-08, 09:19 PM
Some of this stuff is way over powered (ability to remove paralysis, etc; and the swallowing people on the road...also, those with fly speed = immune...they can fly).

Question: Why are the paladin oath spells the same spells on the paladin list? Find steed is a paladin spell, why would they gain them on the oath list?shouldn't it be spells normally not available to them?

While the themes are fun, you should really tone the powers down by a LOT

Nidgit
2018-07-08, 09:57 PM
Also echoing the sentiments that several of these powers are way too strong. Each Oath should have a modestly useful general option and a more useful but situational one.

Regarding the Oaths themselves, I'd make doubly sure that you have a clear ideal each Oath is centered around. Then build 4-5 tenets that each serve ideal in some fashion with a clear justification. A Hedge Knight Paladin always traveling, for instance, is a decent concept but lacks a moral reason or call to action behind it. Making it about 'serving the common people first and foremost', 'tirelessly seeking out those in need of aid', or something similar would help to solidify the concept.

Exocist
2018-07-08, 10:42 PM
My thoughts:

Unhindered Journey: Eh, probably fine. It reduces the need for Lesser Restoration/Greater Restoration/Heal to remove those conditions, which is something you might want to take into account. Might also tread on Cleansing Touch a bit.
Road's Gullet: It allows start of turn save, rather than end of turn save, which means there's a chance that even on an failed save this effect still does nothing. Restrain is quite powerful, but they get two saves to avoid it. I think it's fine, but might need playtesting.

Fall to Chaos: This should not last one minute. Just make it last one round and it is probably fine compared to all the Turn X Channel Divinities.
A Cross to Bear: Honestly this feature should be changed. It's completely useless (those things never show up) or broken (those things are very common).

Hear no Evil, See no Evil: Action to use, this is probably fine.
Think no Evil: Add an end of turn save. This might still be too good. INT saves are rare, stunning is a very powerful condition, it affects quite a few creatures AND it has quite a large range on it.

Chaosmancer
2018-07-09, 12:06 PM
First of all, thank you all very much for your thoughts and comments.




Fall to Chaos: Thematically, super cool. Mechanically, WAAAAAAAAAY overpowered. Like, broken kinds of overpowered. Definitely tone it down.

I've got some ideas why this may be very powerful, for example on another reading I think there should be a range for the effect such as X creatures within 60 ft, but I'm curious if there is something else I'm missing since the biggest effect of this ability is getting 4-6 creatures ganging up on the paladin, which is a very dangerous proposition even for a heavily armored character.








Question: Why are the paladin oath spells the same spells on the paladin list? Find steed is a paladin spell, why would they gain them on the oath list?shouldn't it be spells normally not available to them?




This isn't that unusual, the Oath of Devotion's oath spells are almost exclusively from the Paladin spell list. Like clerics Domain Spells, Oath spells are always prepared and don't count towards your limit, so getting some spells from your class list is still good because it frees up spells by giving them to you for free





Regarding the Oaths themselves, I'd make doubly sure that you have a clear ideal each Oath is centered around. Then build 4-5 tenets that each serve ideal in some fashion with a clear justification. A Hedge Knight Paladin always traveling, for instance, is a decent concept but lacks a moral reason or call to action behind it. Making it about 'serving the common people first and foremost', 'tirelessly seeking out those in need of aid', or something similar would help to solidify the concept.


That's a really good suggestion. I think the other two have some of that already, Blind Eye being an inquistion type "some knowledge is too dangerous to let into the world" and Penintent being "I must atone for the evils of my past" but I really like your phrasing for Hedge Knight serving the common people. I think it nails the concept on the head.

Also, and I'm not sure how he's working it into the oath itself, but one of the ideas I suggested was that Hedge Knights don't want to create bastions. Creating an unmoving sanctuary of light just pushes the shadows into other areas, leaving the darkness to fester there instead. So Hedge Knights travel to bring a little light everywhere, weakening the darkness instead of banishing it




My thoughts:

Unhindered Journey: Eh, probably fine. It reduces the need for Lesser Restoration/Greater Restoration/Heal to remove those conditions, which is something you might want to take into account. Might also tread on Cleansing Touch a bit.
Road's Gullet: It allows start of turn save, rather than end of turn save, which means there's a chance that even on an failed save this effect still does nothing. Restrain is quite powerful, but they get two saves to avoid it. I think it's fine, but might need playtesting.

Fall to Chaos: This should not last one minute. Just make it last one round and it is probably fine compared to all the Turn X Channel Divinities.
A Cross to Bear: Honestly this feature should be changed. It's completely useless (those things never show up) or broken (those things are very common).

Hear no Evil, See no Evil: Action to use, this is probably fine.
Think no Evil: Add an end of turn save. This might still be too good. INT saves are rare, stunning is a very powerful condition, it affects quite a few creatures AND it has quite a large range on it.

I hadn't considered the effect on Cleansing touch, but that is a rather high level ability. The effect on Lesser Restoration and Greater Restoration is a bigger point to consider in my opinion.

For Fall to Chaos, I'm not sure why it would be fine for it to be a turn. The Turn X abilities all last for a minute and prevent creatures affected from attacking anyone... ah there it is, right, if the enemy is attacked it wears off. Still a lot of people I've seen coordinate those turns so the take enemies out of the fight entirely and deal with them in smaller chunks. This does the opposite in a way, forcing them to target a single person but still getting to attack them relentlessly.

I'd like to hear more of why you think that for Cross to Bear.

MagneticKitty
2018-07-09, 04:54 PM
Oath of the Hedge Knight

Oath Spells


Paladin Level Spell

3rd Sanctuary, Ceremony (longstrider?)
5th Prayer of Healing, Find Steed
9th Thunder Step, Magic Circle (phantom steed)
13th Find person, Freedom of Movement
17th Geas, Passwall (why not find greater steed?)


Channel Divinity


Unhindered Journey (As overcoming petrify is kinda later game ability.. maybe give them a second chance or advantage on saves against these statuses insyead? Make it a reaction where if theure hit with one of these effects they get advantage. If its an aoe effect maybe you all get advantage on the save. I think thays more fair then ending it instantly. On the other hand I would give them some bonus to retreating. I'd like to see a class that facilitates this strategy since there's such a stigma against it. Maybe when running away any terain that the paladin walks over becomes rough terain for an hour. Or maybe when retreating they move at double speed. Or disadvantage on survival checks to track them. Probably not as a channel divinity tho.)


Road's Gullet (If anything model it after drowning in a water elemental...
I would maybe say take slight damage each round equal to your charisma modifier. And they fall prone. Maybe the earth grows spikes instead..)






Oath of the Penitent
(This one feels too... vengency. And some of the traits contradict in values.. I don't care for the flavor of this and will mostly comment on mechanics)
Oath Spells


Paladin Level Spell

3rd Command, Inflict Wounds
5th Darkness, Bane
9th Enemies Abound, Haste
13th Compulsion, Hallucinatory Terrain
17th Dominate Person, Enervation


Channel Divinity


Fall to Chaos (Most of the time when charmed things are hit it ends... at the very least say if any creature hits them that's not you they snap out of it. Realistically id model it after compelled dual tbh. Multiple targets might get broken. Negating other effects is kinda un-5e like.. I'd remove that part.)


A Cross to Bear As a bonus action, you cradle your holy symbol and whisper a prayer of strength. For the next ten minutes, you ignore detrimental effects of cursed items you are carrying, curses you are under, and have resistance to damage done by hexes and magical traps. Any conditions you are under the effect of are postponed for ten minutes. (Make this 1 - 5 minutes and I think it's fine.)



Oath of the Blind Eye
(I like this one and the first thematically)
Oath Spells

Paladin Level Spell

3rd Comprehend Languages, Identify (illusory script maybe or alarm to protect secrets)
5th Knock, Misty Step (arcane lock for secret keeping?)
9th Dispel Magic, Spirit Guardians (tongues? Maybe glyph of warding to lock things down)
13th Arcane Eye, Speak with Dead
17th Synaptic Static, Legend Lore



Channel Divinity

Hear no Evil, See no Evil (Maybe make it hear and speak no evil.. blindness is op. It's like your whole part has true invisibility but better for a round. Besides, speak no secrets works better for a secret class)


Think No Evil
(Hypnotic pattern... a third level spell but you get it as a bigger radius... at level 3. Hard nope. Maybe it could make them believe a lie for a short time or something..)

Exocist
2018-07-09, 09:07 PM
I'd like to hear more of why you think that for Cross to Bear.

Simple: Does your game include a dungeon with magical traps? If yes, the Paladin activates cross to bear and walks through every single trap, completely invalidating all that hard work you put into putting the traps there.

If no, it's basically something that might be activated once when you roll a cursed item on the magic item table (do these even exist anymore?) so you can immediately discard said cursed item.

leogobsin
2018-07-09, 09:38 PM
Roads Gullet is interesting, but the problem I see is there's already a Paladin Channel Divinity that restrains enemies (Ancients Nature's Wrath) so it should probably be reworked to differentiate it more from that. Maybe something like this: (this also might necessitate a name change since it's no longer the road swallowing them up)

As an action, choose a point on the ground that you can see within 60 feet of you. The ground within 20 feet of that point rises up to hinder your enemies' movement. The first time a creature attempts to move through the area on a turn, it must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, they are unable to move through the area. On a successful save, the area is difficult terrain for them. When you use this Channel Divinity, you can choose any number of creatures that you can see to exempt from it, they are able to move through the area unhindered.

Chaosmancer
2018-07-13, 07:42 AM
Oath of the Hedge Knight

Oath Spells


Paladin Level Spell

3rd Sanctuary, Ceremony (longstrider?)
5th Prayer of Healing, Find Steed
9th Thunder Step, Magic Circle (phantom steed)
13th Find person, Freedom of Movement
17th Geas, Passwall (why not find greater steed?)


Channel Divinity


Unhindered Journey (As overcoming petrify is kinda later game ability.. maybe give them a second chance or advantage on saves against these statuses insyead? Make it a reaction where if theure hit with one of these effects they get advantage. If its an aoe effect maybe you all get advantage on the save. I think thays more fair then ending it instantly. On the other hand I would give them some bonus to retreating. I'd like to see a class that facilitates this strategy since there's such a stigma against it. Maybe when running away any terain that the paladin walks over becomes rough terain for an hour. Or maybe when retreating they move at double speed. Or disadvantage on survival checks to track them. Probably not as a channel divinity tho.)


Road's Gullet (If anything model it after drowning in a water elemental...
I would maybe say take slight damage each round equal to your charisma modifier. And they fall prone. Maybe the earth grows spikes instead..)






Oath of the Penitent
(This one feels too... vengency. And some of the traits contradict in values.. I don't care for the flavor of this and will mostly comment on mechanics)
Oath Spells


Paladin Level Spell

3rd Command, Inflict Wounds
5th Darkness, Bane
9th Enemies Abound, Haste
13th Compulsion, Hallucinatory Terrain
17th Dominate Person, Enervation


Channel Divinity


Fall to Chaos (Most of the time when charmed things are hit it ends... at the very least say if any creature hits them that's not you they snap out of it. Realistically id model it after compelled dual tbh. Multiple targets might get broken. Negating other effects is kinda un-5e like.. I'd remove that part.)


A Cross to Bear As a bonus action, you cradle your holy symbol and whisper a prayer of strength. For the next ten minutes, you ignore detrimental effects of cursed items you are carrying, curses you are under, and have resistance to damage done by hexes and magical traps. Any conditions you are under the effect of are postponed for ten minutes. (Make this 1 - 5 minutes and I think it's fine.)



Oath of the Blind Eye
(I like this one and the first thematically)
Oath Spells

Paladin Level Spell

3rd Comprehend Languages, Identify (illusory script maybe or alarm to protect secrets)
5th Knock, Misty Step (arcane lock for secret keeping?)
9th Dispel Magic, Spirit Guardians (tongues? Maybe glyph of warding to lock things down)
13th Arcane Eye, Speak with Dead
17th Synaptic Static, Legend Lore



Channel Divinity

Hear no Evil, See no Evil (Maybe make it hear and speak no evil.. blindness is op. It's like your whole part has true invisibility but better for a round. Besides, speak no secrets works better for a secret class)


Think No Evil
(Hypnotic pattern... a third level spell but you get it as a bigger radius... at level 3. Hard nope. Maybe it could make them believe a lie for a short time or something..)


Thank you for your thoughts.

A few answers to your questions.

I think we didn't give Hedge Knight Find Greater Steed for a few reasons. The biggest one is that it is a straight upgrade to Find Steed which they do have, so it would completely invalidate an early spell. Secondly, it doesn't fit the theme of humbleness very well to summon a pegasus to travel with, so it doesn't fit as well as an Oath spell in my opinion. But mostly, you run out of thematic spells. The ability to create roads and passages where none exist (passwall) and the theming of magically compelling a quest upon someone as penance (Geas) fit far better into the roving Hedge Knight theme than getting a fancy steed.

I like you oath spell suggests for Blind Eye though.

Hypnotic Pattern hadn't thought about the comparison honestly, also, I would have sworn it was a second level spell until I looked it up.




Simple: Does your game include a dungeon with magical traps? If yes, the Paladin activates cross to bear and walks through every single trap, completely invalidating all that hard work you put into putting the traps there.

If no, it's basically something that might be activated once when you roll a cursed item on the magic item table (do these even exist anymore?) so you can immediately discard said cursed item.


Okay, I see where you are coming from, but I'm not sure I would call it broken.

It gives resistance to magical traps, not immunity. So, much like the Totem Barbarian raging can "walk through every trap and invalidate them". Sure, you can do this, but it is going to cause a bunch of pain because A) You do not have resistance to non-magical traps and poisons and B) You postpone effects for only ten minutes, so if you fail against a poison, a petrify and a weakening curse on your jaunt, once the Divinity wears out you get hit with all three effects at once.

It is certainly something to take under consideration, but I've never seen someone take the 'walk through all the traps' option of disarming simply because the sneaky and magical types tend to be able to disarm them with far less resources expended.


On the other end of the spectrum though, I think I personally am fine if the effect is situational, because the other channel divinity is kind of powerful, even after we rework it most likely.



Roads Gullet is interesting, but the problem I see is there's already a Paladin Channel Divinity that restrains enemies (Ancients Nature's Wrath) so it should probably be reworked to differentiate it more from that. Maybe something like this: (this also might necessitate a name change since it's no longer the road swallowing them up)

As an action, choose a point on the ground that you can see within 60 feet of you. The ground within 20 feet of that point rises up to hinder your enemies' movement. The first time a creature attempts to move through the area on a turn, it must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, they are unable to move through the area. On a successful save, the area is difficult terrain for them. When you use this Channel Divinity, you can choose any number of creatures that you can see to exempt from it, they are able to move through the area unhindered.


That is a neat idea. Agreed it would necessitate a name change.