Let’s Gush About BarbaRogues!/Levelling Questions

[KOLE]

So, I’m pretty new to D&D in general. Started with 5e this January, so just about half a year! When my friends finally talked me into trying D&D; I delved deeply into optimization because they are all 3.5 veterans and I wanted to be competitive.

So I started browsing these forums and learned about a beautiful thing called multiclassing! And it got me really excited about building characters. After looking through guide after guide on multiclassing, I settled on a Barbarian/Rogue because I like being sneaky but also like bashing heads in.

After six months, I finally hit Rogue levels! And I am VERY impressed with this multiclass. The synergy is incredible. Getting advantage on Dexterity saves has been a massive help. Free advantage for sneak attack is amazing. Resistance to everything (bear totem) is so good, and I can’t wait to use it with Uncanny Dodge! This has been much better than I anticipated, Barb Rogue works so well.

I wanted to hear others experiences with this combo. What was your character like? Any cool moments? What subclasses did you pick? Im planning on taking Scout. How did you level it? I went for five levels of Barb ASAP because I really wanted Shield Master; but I regret not getting expertise and cunning action sooner. So in the future I think I’d go barb level 1, rogue 2, 4 more barb, and rogue from there, but that does delay that all important ASI. How did you take your levels?

[Lombra]

Depends on what you want to do: take only one level of rogue if you want to grapple, shove, climb anything while maiming it with big metal sticks, take two of barb if you only want always-on advantage, that's how I'd do it anyways.

[ciarannihill]

Generally I'd say: Barbarian 2 > Rogue 5 > Barb 5 > Rogue X

At the absolute tail end you could toss in some Fighter levels for Action Surge and/or Fighting Style.

I personally love Bugbear Bear Barbarian/Assassin Rogue. Psuedo extra sneak attack from Bugbear racial and reach with your Rapiers is nice.

[Talionis]

I think you did it correctly, I wanted to start Barbarian for the Constitution Save Proficiency. I could understand getting one level of Rogue to Expertise at level 2, especially if its for Athletics and grappling. I waited to Barbarian 5 and then went Thief Rogue the rest of the way and was happy. I like the idea of getting to Extra Attacks really quickly in 5E. Its a big damage multiplier even for Sneak Attack because increasing the probability you will connect with a sneak attack each round is a big help. I did not have a level 6 Barbarian ability that really attracted me to go further in Barbarian.

You'll have a lot of competition for using your Bonus action in these builds. I went Thief to get fast hands ability and I really enjoyed that.

I got the Tavern Brawler feat because I wanted to be able to grapple as a Bonus action. I used grappled people as shields and cover and it made for an interesting playstyle. I did have a shield, but I often didn't use it, I just drag people sometimes corpses across the battlefield.

I think Shield Master Feat is very overrated if you are going to get Evasion from Rogue levels.

I liked him a lot more once I got Expertise in Atheletics... So I could see putting Extra Attacks off for a single level, but I'd wait on the other stuff and prioritize Extra Attacks pretty highly...

I could also see building 2 Barbarian/X Rogue... And forgoing the Extra Attack, you can dual wield..I'm sure this is pretty viable, its just not what I did.

[samcifer]

*Barbarian looks at axe sticking out of his nexk gushing blood* "This is a boo-boo, tops!"

[Oramac]

I could also see building 2 Barbarian/X Rogue

Doable, for sure, but I think going Barb 3 or 4 for the Archetype (and maybe ASI) is totally worth it, even if you don't want Extra Attack for some reason. Bear Totem is especially good for a Barb/Rogue.

[Snails]

I was just thinking that a Dex-focused Barbarian would allow you to dump Str and let you push for a ski high AC. But this Bar/Rog idea really pushes the idea even further.

Methinks that a Wood Elf for the Dex and movement boost would be nice. Barbarian 5 to get the second attack and push movement to 45'. Then Rogue the rest of the way.

[djreynolds]

I like berserker barbarian 6th level perk, mindless rage is automatic pass on fear saves and charms.

Totem, bear, is awesome, no doubt but you will have evasion and uncanny dodge and oodles oh HP, perhaps not being charmed is stronger.

You don't have to frenzy.

You will be fighting with finesse weapons and strength... so weapon layout is limited.

I would definitely recommend 1 level of fighter if you plan on TWF.

Good luck

[KOLE]

I was just thinking that a Dex-focused Barbarian would allow you to dump Str and let you push for a ski high AC. But this Bar/Rog idea really pushes the idea even further.

Methinks that a Wood Elf for the Dex and movement boost would be nice. Barbarian 5 to get the second attack and push movement to 45'. Then Rogue the rest of the way.
ITS A TRAP!

Tried this initially in this campaign, than had to beg my DM to let me use point buy to fix my stats. It really doesn’t work. Your rage damage and reckless attack specifically require you to use strength for them to work, therefore, Dex barbs miss out on their biggest features.

[Exocist]

I could also see building 2 Barbarian/X Rogue... And forgoing the Extra Attack, you can dual wield..I'm sure this is pretty viable, its just not what I did.

I theorised this build once upon a time and threw it through the damage calculator. This just assumes damage against the average AC of monsters at that CR (no resources used). Second and Third column compares the damage to fully optimised PAM/GWM Fighter/Barb (which it was never going to beat).


https://i.imgur.com/Ui83PK7.png

[strangebloke]

Yup, it's pretty great! This is one of the dozen or so builds that I'm anxious to try out if I ever get the chance.

It's worth noting that without feat support, TWF is actually just about the best weapon loadout a barbarian can get.

It's also worth noting that due to TWF eating your bonus action, the bezerker and storm herald are worse than normal, which makes them about as bad as most people think they are normally.

[Snails]

ITS A TRAP!

Tried this initially in this campaign, than had to beg my DM to let me use point buy to fix my stats. It really doesn’t work. Your rage damage and reckless attack specifically require you to use strength for them to work, therefore, Dex barbs miss out on their biggest features.

Oops. Yeah, I think you are right.

Would it be completely crazy to dip a single level of Barbarian and push for a sky high AC by pumping Dex & Con? Yes, it would mean giving up Rage.

[Exocist]

Oops. Yeah, I think you are right.

Would it be completely crazy to dip a single level of Barbarian and push for a sky high AC by pumping Dex & Con? Yes, it would mean giving up Rage.

Depends... are you going for any feats at all?

A rogue can have a maximum of 17 AC normally, unless your DM hands out +X Light armor (Studded Leather + 5 from DEX).

You'll either start with 2 16s (+2 DEX, +1 CON or +2 CON, +1 DEX race), which means the Barbarian has better AC than the rogue (10 + 3 + 3 vs 12 + 3) or a 14 and a 16 (V Human et. al) which puts them on equal AC.

In the 14 & 16 scenario, you'll be at level 11 (1 Barb/10 Rogue) at minimum (Assuming no magic light armor is handed out) before the barbarian's AC outpaces the rogue's. However, the Barbarian does open you up to using a shield, which the Rogue cannot use. However, every feat you take delays the increased AC even further (to 13 then to 17, then to 20).

The Barbarian does open you up to using a shield, but in that case having Fighter/Rogue would probably be better than Barb/Rogue. Fighter 2/Rogue 18 would give you a fighting style, shields and action surge which you can use to Attack->Ready action to attack for double guaranteed sneak attacks (depending on how lenient DM is with Ready action).

[Snails]

That is an insightful analysis, Exocist.

Yes, I was thinking of using a shield, which has some downsides for rogues. I was seduced by the theoretical possibility of a AC 22 with no magic. :smallbiggrin:

But even under typical scenarios, Fighter2/RogueN does as well or nearly as well in AC (can take the fighting style AC boost if I care so much), and better overall with Action Surge.