Learning new things in game.

[Finger6842]

Let's say you don't know how to use a shield and would like to learn. There's a clear path to doing just that, find a person to teach you, spend a year learning (and paying). In reality, however, there seems to never be a teacher available for what you want and/or game pace gives you no time to focus on this. It's not even a blank on most character sheets so you can track learning days. As DM's how do you make skill training a viable part of your games? Or is there some bias against it that I don't understand?

[bid]

D&D is a class-based system, not a skill-based one.
You can't learn anything without first gaining enough xp to reach a level that offers you what you want.

Almost anyone can waste a level to MC fighter 1 and gain its features. Beyond that, you'd have to graft a skill / downtime system on top of 5e.

[Slybluedemon]

Let's say you don't know how to use a shield and would like to learn. There's a clear path to doing just that, find a person to teach you, spend a year learning (and paying). In reality, however, there seems to never be a teacher available for what you want and/or game pace gives you no time to focus on this. It's not even a blank on most character sheets so you can track learning days. As DM's how do you make skill training a viable part of your games? Or is there some bias against it that I don't understand?

I just let them learn proficiencies by spending downtime. The length of time is dependent on the teacher and what proficiency it is.
If they get a proficiency by Feat it is counted automatically with no downtime spent.
Instead of paying a teacher you could ask another PC that has the Proficiency to spend the downtime with you.

[Finger6842]

D&D is a class-based system, not a skill-based one.
You can't learn anything without first gaining enough xp to reach a level that offers you what you want.

Almost anyone can waste a level to MC fighter 1 and gain its features. Beyond that, you'd have to graft a skill / downtime system on top of 5e.

As a Bard I was specifically after Thieves Tools because we didn't have a Rogue. I'm referring to the following source:
First, you must find an instructor willing to teach you. The DM determines how long it takes, and whether one or more ability checks are required. The training lasts for 250 days and costs 1 gp per day. After you spend the requisite amount o f time and money, you learn the new language or gain proficiency with the new tool. - PHB Part 2 Adventuring p.187

[Finger6842]

I just let them learn proficiencies by spending downtime. The length of time is dependent on the teacher and what proficiency it is.
If they get a proficiency by Feat it is counted automatically with no downtime spent.
Instead of paying a teacher you could ask another PC that has the Proficiency to spend the downtime with you.

I'm sure my DM would allow this. Sadly no rogue to learn from. I could learn something else though. Thanks for the response.

[Malifice]

D&D is a class-based system, not a skill-based one.
You can't learn anything without first gaining enough xp to reach a level that offers you what you want.

Almost anyone can waste a level to MC fighter 1 and gain its features. Beyond that, you'd have to graft a skill / downtime system on top of 5e.

Not true.

I suggest you go away and read the downtime rules again.

[bid]

Let's say you don't know how to use a shield and would like to learn.


Not true.

I suggest you go away and read the downtime rules again.
Tools and languages don't count.

[Malifice]

Tools and languages don't count.

IMG I allow the Training downtime activity to be used to 're-train' as well (swap a Feat or Spell Known or ASI or Manouver or Invocation etc for a different one; even to retrain your entire Subclass).

Having that option there is fantastic as it means players dont have to worry about being stuck with bad choices when levelling up. They can retrain to try something new, or to swap out something they dont like or that didnt work the way they wanted.

[bid]

IMG I allow the Training downtime activity to be used to 're-train' as well (swap a Feat or Spell Known or ASI or Manouver or Invocation etc for a different one; even to retrain your entire Subclass).
That's a great extension to training.


But to return to the thieves tools issue, I really don't like how players want their characters to chain campaigns without any downtime. Why can't the different acts of an adventure occur over a long period of time? Why can't you spend 2 years investigating the "secret society" before you get a lead to the next part?

I mean, roleplaying is all about setting some hooks through downtime. How did you resolve the aftermath, how did you tie the loose threads, what does it mean for who you became?

[Malifice]

That's a great extension to training.


But to return to the thieves tools issue, I really don't like how players want their characters to chain campaigns without any downtime. Why can't the different acts of an adventure occur over a long period of time? Why can't you spend 2 years investigating the "secret society" before you get a lead to the next part?

I mean, roleplaying is all about setting some hooks through downtime. How did you resolve the aftermath, how did you tie the loose threads, what does it mean for who you became?

Its easy enough to do. At the start of a session:

DM: It's been six months since you...

[Unoriginal]

Sadly no rogue to learn from.


There is no criminal in your DM's world?

[Slybluedemon]

There is no criminal in your DM's world?

He meant no Rouge in the party to teach him for little to no payment.

[Slybluedemon]

I really don't like how players want their characters to chain campaigns without any downtime. Why can't the different acts of an adventure occur over a long period of time? Why can't you spend 2 years investigating the "secret society" before you get a lead to the next part?

I mean, roleplaying is all about setting some hooks through downtime. How did you resolve the aftermath, how did you tie the loose threads, what does it mean for who you became?

I agree. its crazy that in some campaigns, PC's have no other responsibilities, If you have a noble title, own land, are apart of an organization, or have a family ect., you should have to go back to check things out often.

I love this because it make the PC's more 3 dimensional and gives more opportunities for plot hooks and/or Rivals to emerge.

[DarkKnightJin]

That's a great extension to training.


But to return to the thieves tools issue, I really don't like how players want their characters to chain campaigns without any downtime. Why can't the different acts of an adventure occur over a long period of time? Why can't you spend 2 years investigating the "secret society" before you get a lead to the next part?

I mean, roleplaying is all about setting some hooks through downtime. How did you resolve the aftermath, how did you tie the loose threads, what does it mean for who you became?

Case in point of a 'loose end' in the campaign where I play a Dragonborn Cleric. One of the first 'bossfights' was against a priest that had gone and gotten himself possessed by a vengeful spirit.
We knocked him out of it (0hp, non-lethal), then my guy picked him up with a Healing Word. And told him to get clear. And if he felt up to help a bit, he could.

After the fight, we helped him calm down. Walked him back to the temple, and explained what had happened.

Currently, it's about a month of in-game time later, and my Cleric suggested that if they weren't going to be doing anything crazy.. that maybe they swing by the town, and check up on the poor kid, see how he's holding up.
And collect on the cash they're owed for letting a businessman claim the temple of an ancient civilization we discovered.

They haven't gone back yet, but it shouldn't be very long before they go back to where they started, and check how it's going over there.

Sure, it'd take like 2 weeks of travel just to get to the town and back to their current home base. But not every day is filled with death defying antics, and/or crazy people plotting crazy things. Or monsters trying to gnaw your face off.

[Kane0]

Let's say you don't know how to use a shield and would like to learn. There's a clear path to doing just that, find a person to teach you, spend a year learning (and paying). In reality, however, there seems to never be a teacher available for what you want and/or game pace gives you no time to focus on this. It's not even a blank on most character sheets so you can track learning days. As DM's how do you make skill training a viable part of your games? Or is there some bias against it that I don't understand?

Usually by using downtime. Some PCs perform research, practice a trade, some train, some burn gold on wine/women/song, etc.
New proficiencies also make for neat rewards if you don't want to go so far as a feat/boon/magic item. It's like giving the wizard a new spell to learn.
On that thought, a spell or ritual might also be another way of doing it if you are looking for a shorter time spent on obtaining the proficiency.

[Finger6842]

That's a great extension to training.


But to return to the thieves tools issue, I really don't like how players want their characters to chain campaigns without any downtime. Why can't the different acts of an adventure occur over a long period of time? Why can't you spend 2 years investigating the "secret society" before you get a lead to the next part?

I mean, roleplaying is all about setting some hooks through downtime. How did you resolve the aftermath, how did you tie the loose threads, what does it mean for who you became?

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I wanted to do it in a linear year but that I wanted some way to track it as what I did with my downtime between adventures. If 3 years elapse before I finish that's fine. We have no Rogue in the party and I wouldn't expect a discount if there was, though maybe a quid pro quo type arrangement would be reasonable. Yes, as indicated my DM feels there's no rogue that will train me (not there's no Rogue at all in town). My point is that I should be able to train any skill in a major town and my last 3 DM's, despite being amazing in other areas, don't seem to be interested in allowing it. I am more looking to see if you more experienced DM's and players know a reason than trying to talk one into it. The party seriously lacks in the area and it's thematic for how I play (doing many rogue like things). Having had a trap door explode in my face is motivation enough for me to want to learn. I do appreciate all the replies.

[JackPhoenix]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I wanted to do it in a linear year but that I wanted some way to track it as what I did with my downtime between adventures. If 3 years elapse before I finish that's fine. We have no Rogue in the party and I wouldn't expect a discount if there was, though maybe a quid pro quo type arrangement would be reasonable. Yes, as indicated my DM feels there's no rogue that will train me (not there's no Rogue at all in town). My point is that I should be able to train any skill in a major town and my last 3 DM's, despite being amazing in other areas, don't seem to be interested in allowing it. I am more looking to see if you more experienced DM's and players know a reason than trying to talk one into it. The party seriously lacks in the area and it's thematic for how I play (doing many rogue like things). Having had a trap door explode in my face is motivation enough for me to want to learn. I do appreciate all the replies.

If your GM says there's nobody to train you, we can't do anything about that. It's his world and his game. If you really want that proficiency, you can pick up Skilled next time you'll get an ASI.

Though you don't need a rogue: there are at least two backgrounds that grant proficiency with thieves' tools, not counting custom backgrounds, and Skilled and Prodigy feats exist.

[Unoriginal]

Could you find an actual locksmith to teach you that stuff?