Low Charisma Dwarven Paladin Pathfinder

[IronwolfXVI]

Hello, I'm struggling to find a good archetype or home brew ideas to fit what I want to do with my dwarf. He used to be a forgemaster warpriest, but I haven't played him in a while and since has become a Herald of Torag.

I'd like to make him a paladin as he rolled stupid high stats, with one exception his charisma. I could dump intelligence or wisdom, but it wouldn't make much sense and I kind of like playing him as a super gruff dwarf.

So, any ideas on archetypes or homebrew for a wisdom based paladin? I'm not interested in Stonelord as it's not the proper flavor and neither is tortured crusader.

Thanks in advance.

[MeimuHakurei]

Have you tried playing him as another class? Maybe he'll rely on his willpower more and become a cleric/warpriest, or he instead relies more on his battle prowess than his sanctity, being a Fighter.

[Seerow]

If you're open to Homebrew, why not just Homebrew an update to the Serenity feat from 3.5? Basic feat that switches your Paladin abilities that are set off Cha to be set off Wis instead.

[Geddy2112]

Second the above-play as another class, or just port in serenity 3.5 feat.

Another option is to just have a ton of charisma and still be gruff. Charisma is not always being gregarious and flirty, but that your presence commands respect and your words authority. You can still be a total hard ass with a ton of conviction and authority. Torag's charisma based followers are not radically different in mindset and behavior than the rest of his disciples. With a lot of charisma, you might even have a reputation for being ironclad in your ways, and are not afraid to assert what you think. A lot of charismatic people in history, fantasy, and modern are not necessarily likable or attractive, but they have sway.

[IronwolfXVI]

I have thought about using different classes. The d10 of hitpoints was something I wanted for sure. That kind of rules out clerics and warpriest. I'd also want more of a celestial flavor to it. Not totally mundane like most fighters. I was looking into prestige classes.

Oh and thanks for the idea about the serenity feat, I'm not terribly proficient with any system other than pathfinder, but my GM is familiar with 3.5

[Geddy2112]

If you want a prestiege class, you could always go with Sentinel (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/sentinel/), which is really strong if you go warhammer(stacking on the Deific Obedience for Torag). Sacred Sentinel (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/sacred-sentinel/) is Torag's prestige class that basically tacks paladinesque features on a character, although it is charisma based. Both stack well with paladin and are d10 HD classes.

You could go with a religious Caviler, like order of the star, although that is charisma based as well...

[Psyren]

Honestly? I would use Race Builder and just make a Dwarf subrace (similar to 3.5 Gold Dwarves) that doesn't have a Cha penalty. This is one of the areas where I was disappointed with Paizo; there are so many iconic dwarves that are charismatic merchant, born leader, or even just jokester types. Think of famous dwarves like Varric Tethras, Thorin Oakenshield, Sigrun, Beast from Divinity etc.

[Eldariel]

I have thought about using different classes. The d10 of hitpoints was something I wanted for sure. That kind of rules out clerics and warpriest. I'd also want more of a celestial flavor to it. Not totally mundane like most fighters. I was looking into prestige classes.

Oh and thanks for the idea about the serenity feat, I'm not terribly proficient with any system other than pathfinder, but my GM is familiar with 3.5

D8 and d10 isn't really a meaningful difference, and Cleric spells do enable shoring it up easily enough though. Shield Other through Imbue with Spell Ability allows halving damage you take on e.g. Planar Ally or whatever, Divine Power and their ilk give more than enough temporary HP to bridge the gap while also tremendously pumping your combat prowess, etc. And d10 vs. d8 is just 2HP on the first level, average 1 thereafter. Con, spells, items, temporary HP and damage scaling make the chance of that difference counting very minor.

Similarly, you can fluff a Cleric just the same as a Pally. All the differences are purely mechanical; both are divine champions of a cause or a deity with power-bestown abilities.


That said, build whichever you'd prefer of course. My point is just that the reasons you gave are not necessarily reasons to abandon the Cleric-option.

[Psyren]

Or the Warpriest option for that matter, if "I want to be less caster and more martial" is the desired outcome.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Psyren
I would use Race Builder and just make a Dwarf subrace (similar to 3.5 Gold Dwarves) that doesn't have a Cha penalty.

I’ve done this almost exactly. I played a dwarven oracle in a Runelords campaign, and the DM kindly allowed me to use a custom dwarven subrace with a penalty to Strength instead of Charisma. This suited me perfectly.

Didn’t even need to use the race builder, just swapped around a couple things and got DM approval. I also had his permission to use Divine Protection to add my Charisma bonus to my saves, although I gather this is considered slightly dubious. The DM was pretty generous for this character.

[Psyren]

It's less that it's dubious and more that they nerfed DP into the ground. 1/encounter would have been much more reasonable.