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[Hunterx]

So after our DM decided to bring into play the deck of many things and my char getting imprisoned I have to create and make another char, this made me mad as I liked my charger ranger but it is true he was very one direction but he was good at that direction.

So I have gone the way of the crazy number of attacks that will in about 2 levels hit everything so here is the build I just need to know how to out fit him.

Xeph: Fighter 5 Master Thrower 3
Feats: Lv1 point blank shot, fighter bonus feat precise ****, feat from flaw: ambidexterity, feat from flaw weapon focus dagger,
Lv2 bonus feat: power attack
Lv3 Xeph clarity
Lv4 bonus feat two weapon fighting
Lv6 rapid shot
bonus feat master thrower quick draw

Throw tricks palm throw and trip shot

Ok so the attacks are as follows BAB
+8/+3
so throwing my daggers main hand
+8+1(+1 within 30') plus dex wich with racial and stats from levels is +6 so that is +16 within 30'
now palm throw stats you throw 2 daggers at once so that is +16,+16 you however do not add your str mod to damage which is ok with me
now rapid shot gives me another attack at the highest attack with a -2 to all attacks so that gives me a +14/+14/+14/+14 since i can use palm throw with rapid shot
Now xeph clarity gives me an extra attack at my highest attack bonus without penalty and as long as i am making a full attack
so now that goes to
+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14
now with two weapon fighting that gives me an off hand attack at penalty but since i have ambidextarity i do not suffer a penalty so that is now
+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14
now my second attack kicks in so that is
now +3+1(+1 within 30') +6 for +11
so that is
+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+11/+11
al these do 1d4 damage wich is not impressive i agree but now this is were the magic starts
Power attack i can suffer a up to a -8 on attack rolls and add that as damage to each of my daggers so now that could turn into
10d4+80 damge before magic effects and stuff
plus every single attack i hit with has a chance to trip the opponent with a +4+6 for +10 to trip attacks at range

The question is what gear do i use daggers of returning seem like the first choise and i would need 2 of them but returning says that they return just before youe next turn so can i use 2 daggers to complete this attack rotation or no.

plus what other gear would you suggest?

[BowStreetRunner]

Ambidexterity was a 3.0 edition feat. It took the normal penalties for fighting with two weapons and changed them from -6/-10 (or -4/-8 if the off-hand weapon was light) and reduced them to -6/-6 (or -4/-4).

Unless you are playing with 3.0 rules, what you want is the Two Weapon Fighting feat. It reduces the -6/-10 penalty to -4/-4 (or the -4/-8 to -2/-2). See the Two-Weapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#twoWeaponFighting) rules here.

Returning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#returning) weapons come back to your hand just before your next turn, so cannot be thrown repeatedly on the same turn. If you are drawing more weapons to throw, generally you are going to be wanting the Quick Draw (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#quickDraw) feat as well. (However, it is worth asking your DM, as some DMs treat drawing thrown weapons the same as drawing ammunition for bows, depending upon where the weapons are stored.) In any case, an Efficient Quiver (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#efficientQuiver) or something similar may be beneficial.

[Hunterx]

no there is another book that is on our list that is 3.5 and has the ambidexterity in it so no it is not 3.0

the quiver I will have to look at. The quiver will be on the shopping list.


The other thing that will be great will be lv 5 MT when I can resolve all attacks as touch attacks with my next throw trick.

[frogglesmash]

no there is another book that is on our list that is 3.5 and has the ambidexterity in it so no it is not 3.0.

What other book does it appear in?

[lylsyly]

no there is another book that is on our list that is 3.5 and has the ambidexterity in it so no it is not 3.0

There is? Not a Third Party book is it?

[Hunterx]

What other book does it appear in?

Arcana Unearthed which is a semi third party book but one the DM allows and likes so I will use to my advantage.

[BowStreetRunner]

Arcana Unearthed which is a semi third party book but one the DM allows and likes so I will use to my advantage.
That's a Sword & Sorcery book that also uses the d20 system. The problem with this is that the system to which it applies uses a completely different Two-Weapon Fighting feat than the one in 3.5. The Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting feats from Arcana Unearthed taken together are equal to the Two-Weapon Fighting feat from 3.5 taken alone. 3.5 TWF combines the effect of both of them into one single feat. It is strictly superior to either feat from AU.

I would recommend you take TWF from 3.5.

[Hunterx]

That's a Sword & Sorcery book that also uses the d20 system. The problem with this is that the system to which it applies uses a completely different Two-Weapon Fighting feat than the one in 3.5. The Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting feats from Arcana Unearthed taken together are equal to the Two-Weapon Fighting feat from 3.5 taken alone. 3.5 TWF combines the effect of both of them into one single feat. It is strictly superior to either feat from AU.

I would recommend you take TWF from 3.5.

take ambi from unearthed arcana and then TWF from 3.5 so you see how that makes it even stronger

[Blue Jay]

I think you've overlooked a few things.

The first thing that comes to mind is that, with Palm Throw, you throw two daggers with one attack roll. You've recorded it as if you're making two attack rolls (+16/+16). It also says you don't add your Str bonus; but, if you have a Str penalty, I bet you still have to include that.

The next thing is that Power Attack doesn't work with ranged attacks or with light weapons, so you can't use Power Attack this way. There are a couple options that allow ranged Power Attacks, like Hank's energy bow and the Bloodstorm Blade PrC from Tome of Battle, but I'm not sure if those options will work for light weapons like daggers.

Last, if you're using Arcana Unearthed (different from Unearthed Arcana, by the way), Ambidexterity is in there. But, you've got the benefits wrong. Page 148 lists what penalties you take. With Ambidexterity, Two-Weapon Fighting and a light weapon in your off-hand, you take -2/-2.

This is how I think your full attack routine will look:

So, you get +8 for BAB, +6 for Dex, +1 for Weapon Focus, +1 for Point Blank Shot. So, you have:


+16 / +11 for your basic iteratives

Add in Two-Weapon Fighting, for this:


+14 / +14 / +9 (that's primary / off-hand / iterative)

Rapid Shot adds another attack with -2 for all attacks, so now:


+12 / +12 / +12 / +7 (primary / rapid / off-hand / iterative)

I've never heard of Xeph Clarity before, but assuming it does what you say it does, your final attack routine would look like this:


+12 / +12 / +12 / +12 / +7 (primary / rapid / xeph / off-hand / iterative)

Because of Palm Throw, each attack is for two daggers. So, you're throwing a total of 10 daggers with 5 attack rolls.

-----

As far as items, there's an item in the Magic Item Compendium called the gauntlet of infinite blades that produces a dagger on command. It's just a mundane dagger, though; and activation requires a swift action, so you couldn't use it more than once per round. But, see if your DM would be willing to make an upgraded version that activates as a free action and/or takes magical enhancements like a weapon (perhaps trade the "charges/day" function for one of these options). I once let a player do that with his glove of endless javelins. If your DM is nice, he might do the same for you.

[BowStreetRunner]

take ambi from unearthed arcana and then TWF from 3.5 so you see how that makes it even stronger

Actually, I think you have to use both from Swords & Sorcery/Arcana Unearthed. Here's what I found when I looked at it again. When you compare Monte Cook's TWF formulae in both systems they both start off the same:

Primary hand penalty -6.
Off hand penalty -10.
Off-hand weapon is light reduces Primary hand penalty by 2 and Off hand penalty by 2.

But where 3.5 has one feat that reduces it all to -2/-2:
3.5 Two-Weapon Fighting reduces Primary hand penalty by 2 and Off hand penalty by 6.


Swords & Sorcery's Arcana Unearthed has two feats that actually reduce it all to -0/-0:
S&S/AU Ambidexterity reduces Off hand penalty by 4.
S&S/AU Two-Weapon Fighting reduces Primary hand penalty by 4 and Off hand penalty by 4.


So you could go with the S&S version of both for -0/-0. Which actually is superior after all. But if you combined the S&S Ambidexterity with 3.5 TWF you would still have -2 on your primary hand. You couldn't get your off hand to +2 because all it says it does is reduce the penalty, not grant a bonus.

I say if your DM is willing to let you use the alternative version of both feats, go for it. -0/-0 is worth a second feat compared to -2/-2 for just one feat.

[Blue Jay]

Swords & Sorcery's Arcana Unearthed has two feats that actually reduce it all to -0/-0:
S&S/AU Ambidexterity reduces Off hand penalty by 4.
S&S/AU Two-Weapon Fighting reduces Primary hand penalty by 4 and Off hand penalty by 4.


So you could go with the S&S version of both for -0/-0. Which actually is superior after all. But if you combined the S&S Ambidexterity with 3.5 TWF you would still have -2 on your primary hand. You couldn't get your off hand to +2 because all it says it does is reduce the penalty, not grant a bonus.

I say if your DM is willing to let you use the alternative version of both feats, go for it. -0/-0 is worth a second feat compared to -2/-2 for just one feat.

Oh yep, you're right: Arcana Unearthed gives +0/+0 for "Ambidexterity+TWF+light weapon." Wow: nice!

[Hunterx]

There are 2 books one is a red cover and one is a black cover what one are you looking at ?

[BowStreetRunner]

There are 2 books one is a red cover and one is a black cover what one are you looking at ?
Black cover. Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed, A Variant Player's Handbook from Malhavoc Press (c) 2003. Check the chart on page 148.

[Hunterx]

Now I think you are looking at this the wrong way

the chat is as follows

Table: Two-Weapon Fighting Penalties

Circumstances
Primary Hand Off Hand

Normal penalties –6 –10
Off-hand weapon is light
–4 –8
Two-Weapon Fighting feat
–4 –4
Off-hand weapon is light and Two-Weapon Fighting feat
–2 –2

so with two weapon fighting that brings the penalty down to -4/-4 with one handed weapons with ambi that will bring the penalty to 0/0 for one handed weapons.

now for power attack you are correct I did forget about that

xeph clarity is in complete psionis

[Hunterx]

Ther is a feat that allows you to use power attack with thrown weapons it is called power throw but there is one feat that is required it is brutal throw and the Xeph are not strength based at all time to revamp the build starting with the race. But this will lower my number of attacks 😞

[Hunterx]

so the rebuild is on now that have found the feat I need the new race is goliath
with ambi two weapon fighting and rapid shot brutal throw and power throw and 2 attack BAB I can throw 8 daggers in one round making only 4 attacks, which means if I score a critical they both score and I can take up tp a -7 on my attack rolls and add them to my damage.

SO that is 8D4+56 if we take the d4s and say I get a 2 on average that makes it 16+56 for 72 points of damage that is not half bad at 30 plus a bug HP pool since I get a con bonus but wait a second cant goliaths use daggers that are large without a penalty yes yes they can that makes is 8D6+56 average of about 25+56 for 81 points of damage

now this is looking better and better, now how can we get this even better well lets add in another attack so with haste or something like that. that is now 10d6+70 for a possible 130 damage at level 8, this is minus damage reduction and stuff but you get the idea.

at level 9 I will have a very hard pick however it is improved 2 weapon fighting or another feat. time will tell

[Blue Jay]

The extra attack from haste won't stack with other extra attacks (I'm not sure if that counts Rapid Shot, but I think it does). But, if you can squeeze in a level of monk for Flurry of Blows (the dagger is a monk weapon) or a level of barbarian with Whirling Frenzy, those extra attacks will stack with Rapid Shot. I'd recommend Whirling Frenzy, because the Str boost offsets the -2 penalty on attack rolls from 1st level, whereas you'd need 11 levels of monk to offset the Flurry penalty.

[Menzath]

My 2cents(which may be worth less than that) psiwar in a throwerer build actually isn't that bad, especially with the powers from complete psionic extend range, and telekinetic boomerang. One increases thrown/ranged weapon distance, and the other gives improved returning property to a weapon that functions instantly. So that means you could have 2 really good enchanted daggers to save on costs.
Not to mention the other powers that can be quite useful. Sure you loose on a little BaB, but you can still hit the 16 mark.

[Hunterx]

yeah no psionics are going to this and taking the LA hit is not to bad I will take far **** next or something like that or ITW to get the extra attack. then I need ranged attacks of opportunity and I know there is a feat out there some where for that exact thing.
Then I can start to tie everything together.

[Hunterx]

The extra attack from haste won't stack with other extra attacks (I'm not sure if that counts Rapid Shot, but I think it does). But, if you can squeeze in a level of monk for Flurry of Blows (the dagger is a monk weapon) or a level of barbarian with Whirling Frenzy, those extra attacks will stack with Rapid Shot. I'd recommend Whirling Frenzy, because the Str boost offsets the -2 penalty on attack rolls from 1st level, whereas you'd need 11 levels of monk to offset the Flurry penalty.

With haste they work fine with feats here is the key part

When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with any weapon he is holding. The attack is made using the creature’s full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This effect is not cumulative with similar effects, such as that provided by a weapon of speed, nor does it actually grant an extra action, so you can’t use it to cast a second spell or otherwise take an extra action in the round.)