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BowStreetRunner
2018-07-02, 12:13 PM
This is for a 3.5 build I am doing for a friend who likes to play, but isn't big on designing characters. All official 3.5 non-setting-specific sources are provisionally allowed. However, no dragon magazine (including Dracon Compendium), and the DM reserves the right to veto any obvious cheese - although I'm told he tends to be quite flexible if the players have to work for something. As for setting-specific materials, he is willing to allow a great deal but nothing that requires bringing in new mechanics that don't exist outside the setting and no doubling up on different versions of the same thing from multiple settings. 3rd party source material will be allowed on a case-by-case basis, but assume that if it doesn't pass the sniff test it won't be allowed.

The character in question will be an Archivist who will also serve as the party's primary skill monkey. The overall build so far is Archivist 4/Church Inquisitor 4/Holt Warden 4 with the remaining levels being filled up with additional levels in Archivist, Church Inquisitor, or Holt Warden depending on how the campaign proceeds. The race being used is Illumian with the Illumian Word 'Vaulnaen' for +2 to Intelligence and Charisma based checks as well as some flexibility with preparing spells. The Jack of All Trades feat will definitely be taken. Knowledge Devotion is almost a certainty. The Face Changer [reserve] feat is looking very likely as well. Archivist of Nature and Draconic Archivist may be taken if nothing better comes along.

What I am trying to focus on right now however is making a wish list of spells that help fill the skill monkey role. The list should include the following: A) any spell that gives a significant bonus to a skill check, including general bonuses as well as bonuses to specific skills; B) any spell that completely replaces the need for a skill check (for instance, any cure wounds spell would obviate the need for a Heal check to render first aid). I want to build this list with regard to the best such spells at each level, relative to the spells available at other levels as well. Consideration should also be given to the type of bonus provided, and how they stack with other bonuses.

While I am quite familiar with the methods via which an Archivist is able to gain access to arcane spells (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?553948-Archivist-Class-Spell-Access), for current purposes I am focusing entirely on spells that are already explicitly on a divine list. The DM in this case should be assumed to provide easy access to the full cleric list (beyond even the automatic spells at each level) and slightly more limited access to casters with domain spells or other divine classes. However, anything that can be accessed from strictly arcane lists via the various crossover methods will require a lot more work for the archivist to track down and should not be assumed to be automatically available. [As the DM put it when I mentioned that a certain type of caster would be able to provide a certain arcane spell as a divine spell: "Okay then, what's his name? Name the specific NPC who is going to provide this spell and you can have it." And apparently George wasn't correct, although I did get the DM to chuckle.] So I am going to build this wish list from known divine spells and consider any arcane spells that can be picked up later to be a bonus. Note that where a spell does not appear on the Cleric list, I am noting in brackets the easiest source where it can be obtained.


Create Water (replaces Survival check to find water)
Cure Minor Wounds (replaces Heal check for First Aid)
Deathwatch [from Healer] (replaces certain uses of Heal skill)
Guidance (+1 competence bonus on a single skill check)
Mending (replaces Craft checks to repair items)
Know Direction (replaces Survival check to determine north)
Read Magic (replaces need for Spellcraft or Use Magic Device check to read magical writings, or identify glyphs and symbols with Spellcraft)



Cause Fear (replaces Intimidate check to Demoralize opponent)
Charm Animal [from Druid/Ranger] (replaces Diplomacy check, plus you also don't need a way to speak with the animal to make it work)
Comprehend Languages (replaces Decipher Script check to read or a rank in Speak Language to read and understand a language)
Delay Poison [from Ranger] (may prevent or put off the need for a Heal check to treat poison)
Detect Animals or Plants [from Druid/Ranger] (replace Survival plus Track and works on plants too)
Detect Secret Doors [from Knowledge domain] (replaces Search checks)
Detect Snares and Pits [from Druid/Ranger] (replaces Search checks)
Endure Elements (replaces Survival check to get a bonus to saves against severe weather)
Hide from Animals [from Druid/Ranger] (replaces Hide check against animals)
Hide from Undead (replaces Hide check...as long as your opponent lacks a pulse)
Wieldskill [from Initiate of Gond (PGtF)] (+5 competence bonus on a skill check and count the skill as trained)
Jump [from Druid] (+10 or greater enhancement bonus on jump checks)
Lesser Restoration [from Paladin] (replaces Heal check for long-term care to recover ability damage)
Obscuring Mist (at 10 feet replaces Hide check, even at 5 feet still provides concealment for Hide check)
Ray of Hope (+2 morale bonus on skill checks at Close Range)
Spider Climb [from Slayer of Domiel] (replaces Climb checks)
Summon Monster I (can summon creatures that may be able to perform skill checks for you)



Bear's Endurance (+4 enhancement bonus to CON)
Bull's Strength (+4 enhancement bonus to STR)
Cat's Grace [from Druid/Ranger] (+4 enhancement bonus to DEX)
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance [from Drow domain] (This can replace the need for any number of skill checks. Hide/Move Silently aren't needed to spy on them. Spying on them can help you gain information that might normally require Gather Information, Diplomacy or Intimidation, or Sense Motive.)
Detect Thoughts [from Knowledge domain] (replaces Sense Motive checks)
Divine Insight (+5 to +15 insight bonus on a single skill check)
Enthrall (replaces Diplomacy check)
Find Traps (use Search as a rogue with insight bonus of 1/2 CL up to +10)
Guidance of the Avatar [web (http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a)] (+20 competence bonus on one skill check)
Invisibility [from Trickery domain (replace Hide check)
Make Whole (replace Craft check to repair item)
Master's Touch [PH2 spell, not the CA/SC one] (+4 insight bonus on a single skill check)
Owl's Wisdom (+4 enhancement bonus to WIS)
Remove Disease [from Healer] (replaces Heal check)
Share Talents (+2 untyped bonus on skill checks with any skill that either has a rank in, both are considered trained in any skill that either has a rank in.)
Snare [from Ranger] (replaces Craft Trapmaking check)
Tongues [from Emissary of Barachiel (replaces Speak Language)
Tree Shape [from Druid] (replace Hide or Disguise check)
Wood Shape [from Druid] (replace Craft check)
Zone of Truth (replaces Sense Motive check)



Close Wounds (replace or prevent need for Heal check at close range)
Create Food and Water (replaces Survival check)
Discern Lies [from Paladin] (replace Sense Motive check)
Dominate Animal [from Druid] (replace Handle Animal check)
Eagle's Splendor [from Trade domain] (+4 enhancement bonus to CHA)
Good home [from Emissary of Barachiel] (+2 morale bonus to skill checks)
Heroism [from Courage domain] (+2 morale bonus to skill checks)
Invisibility Purge (replaces Listen and Spot checks)
Locate Object (replace Gather Information and Search checks)
Meld into Stone (replace Hide check)
Neutralize Poison [from Druid/Ranger] (replace Heal check)
Plant Growth [from Druid/Ranger] (who needs Profession Farmer anyway?)
Prayer (+1 luck bonus for you and allies on skill checks)
Scrying [from Emissary of Barachiel] (As clairaudience/clairvoyance but centered on a person instead of a location, this can replace the need for any number of skill checks. Hide/Move Silently aren't needed to spy on them. Spying on them can help you gain information that might normally require Gather Information, Diplomacy or Intimidation, or Sense Motive.)
Stone Shape (replaces Craft check)
Understand Device [from Initiate of Gond (PGtF)] (up to +15 insight bonus on Disable Device and Open Lock checks and make them as if trained)
Water Breathing (replace Swim check)
Water Walk (replace Swim check)



Commune with Nature [from Ranger] (replace Knowledge and Survival checks)
Divination (replace Knowledge or Gather Information checks)
Freedom of Movement (replace Escape Artist check)



Surge of Fortune (+2 luck bonus on skill checks, end spell early to make one skill roll a natural 20)
True Seeing (replaces Spot and Search checks)



Control Weather [from Shugenja] (replaces Survival checks)
Find the Path (replaces Knowledge Geography, Survival, and Search checks)
Greater Heroism [from Joy domain] (+4 morale bonus to skill checks)



Channel Celestial [from Sanctified domain] (use the Celestial's skill ranks or your own [whichever is higher] and the Celestial's mental stats -5, or your own [whichever is higher])



Discern Location (replaces Survival or Gather Information checks plus Tracking or Urban Tracking feats)
Moment of Prescience [from Luck domain] (insight bonus equal to caster level to one skill check)



Channel Greater Celestial [from Sanctified domain] (use the Celestial's skill ranks or your own [whichever is higher] and the Celestial's mental stats -5, or your own [whichever is higher])
Choose Destiny [from Destiny domain] (roll skill checks twice and select which result to use)
Miracle (should be able to pretty much replace just about any skill check you might need)

Troacctid
2018-07-02, 12:26 PM
Looks like you're missing Wieldskill (+5 competence bonus on any skill, and use it untrained; may remove the need for Jack of All Trades) and Understand Device (like Find Traps, but for Open Lock and Disable Device), both from Initiate of Gond.

I would typically take Bind Vestige instead of Jack of All Trades. Binding Naberius only lets you pick a number of untrained skills equal to your Con mod instead of all untrained skills, but following up with Practiced Binder allows you to also take 10 on Bluff and Diplomacy and use them as a standard action with no penalty, which is very good for the face role. And of course you always have the option to switch vestiges if you don't think a silver tongue will be needed that day.

Anthrowhale
2018-07-02, 12:55 PM
Guidance of the avatar (http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) is another critical skills-for-clerics spell.

Edit: You might also want to consider 'close wounds' = immediate action heal at a distance.

Bullet06320
2018-07-02, 01:20 PM
channel celestial and channel greater celestial from BoED gets access to tons of skills
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?491181-Alternative-ways-to-get-new-Class-skills
2nd post has a list of available skills available under the spells section

may also want to consider summon monster and planar binding line for more utility

BowStreetRunner
2018-07-02, 01:48 PM
Looks like you're missing Wieldskill (+5 competence bonus on any skill, and use it untrained; may remove the need for Jack of All Trades) and Understand Device (like Find Traps, but for Open Lock and Disable Device), both from Initiate of Gond.These will definitely go in.


I would typically take Bind Vestige instead of Jack of All Trades. Binding Naberius only lets you pick a number of untrained skills equal to your Con mod instead of all untrained skills, but following up with Practiced Binder allows you to also take 10 on Bluff and Diplomacy and use them as a standard action with no penalty, which is very good for the face role. And of course you always have the option to switch vestiges if you don't think a silver tongue will be needed that day.I'm trying to avoid dipping into alternative mechanics here. The player for whom I'm building this isn't familiar with things like Binders, Truenamers, Incarnum users, Martial Adepts, or even Psionics. I don't think she wants to go down that path too much. But otherwise these are interesting suggestions.


Guidance of the avatar (http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) is another critical skills-for-clerics spell.

Edit: You might also want to consider 'close wounds' = immediate action heal at a distance.As for Guidance of the Avatar, I'd completely forgotten about this web-only gem. I'll definitely add it. On the matter of close wounds...I'm not sure whether to add it or not here. I'm not giving her a complete list of every spell she'll want to acquire - just the best ones for a skill monkey. So you can see I didn't include the entire Cure line of spells for that reason, although she may want to pick up some more of those as she gains levels. However, Close Wounds being ranged and actually even preventing damage is so much better than a mere cure spell that I might just have to add this.


channel celestial and channel greater celestial from BoED gets access to tons of skills
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?491181-Alternative-ways-to-get-new-Class-skills
2nd post has a list of available skills available under the spells section

may also want to consider summon monster and planar binding line for more utilityWow! This is fantastic. I'll have to read this thoroughly and decide what to include.

Thanks to each of you!

Thurbane
2018-07-02, 09:36 PM
Here's some suggestions, sorry for any duplications, or if I have misunderstood the OP:


Adept Spirit (Clr 3): +2 (or higher) insight bonus on Concentration and Intelligence based skill checks
Ancient Knowledge (Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1): +5 insight bonus on a single Knowledge check
Choose Destiny (Destiny 9): roll twice for all checks and take best result (a but redundant for skill checks at the level it comes online)
Focusing Chant (Brd 1): +1 circumstance bonus on checks
Glibness (Brd 3, Commerce 4): +30 untyped bonus on Bluff checks
Good Hope (Bard 3, Charm 4): +2 morale bonus on checks
Heroism (Brd 2): +2 morale bonus on checks
Heroism, greater (Brd 5, Joy 6): +4 morale bonus on checks
Improvisation (Brd 1): +2 points/level of luck bonuses to checks
Leech Ghost Skill (Sor/Wiz 5): use skill ranks of ghosts (very campaign specific to Ghostwalk)
Master's Touch (Clr 2): +4 insight bonus on checks
Ray of Hope (Clr 1): +2 morale bonus on checks
Share Talents (Clr 2): +2 untype bonus on checks for two creatures, as long as one them has ranks
Surge of Fortune (Clr 5): +2 luck bonus on checks; treat one check as a 20

Troacctid
2018-07-02, 09:40 PM
Adept Spirit (Clr 3): +2 (or higher) insight bonus on Concentration and Intelligence based skill checks
This one can probably be taken off the list, as it's an Incarnum spell, which means you can't cast it without the Incarnum Spellshaping feat.

BowStreetRunner
2018-07-03, 11:58 AM
Here's some suggestions, sorry for any duplications, or if I have misunderstood the OP:


Adept Spirit (Clr 3): +2 (or higher) insight bonus on Concentration and Intelligence based skill checks
Ancient Knowledge (Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1): +5 insight bonus on a single Knowledge check
Choose Destiny (Destiny 9): roll twice for all checks and take best result (a but redundant for skill checks at the level it comes online)
Focusing Chant (Brd 1): +1 circumstance bonus on checks
Glibness (Brd 3, Commerce 4): +30 untyped bonus on Bluff checks
Good Hope (Bard 3, Charm 4): +2 morale bonus on checks
Heroism (Brd 2): +2 morale bonus on checks
Heroism, greater (Brd 5, Joy 6): +4 morale bonus on checks
Improvisation (Brd 1): +2 points/level of luck bonuses to checks
Leech Ghost Skill (Sor/Wiz 5): use skill ranks of ghosts (very campaign specific to Ghostwalk)
Master's Touch (Clr 2): +4 insight bonus on checks
Ray of Hope (Clr 1): +2 morale bonus on checks
Share Talents (Clr 2): +2 untype bonus on checks for two creatures, as long as one them has ranks
Surge of Fortune (Clr 5): +2 luck bonus on checks; treat one check as a 20
A nice bunch of spells. A couple of these probably won't be easily available as divine spells in the campaign in question (Divine Bards are likely to be exceedingly rare). And the Incarnum spell has a feat tax that takes it off the list. But I've added several gems from here to the list above. Thanks!

This one can probably be taken off the list, as it's an Incarnum spell, which means you can't cast it without the Incarnum Spellshaping feat.
It is a nice spell, but not worth a feat for just the one spell. (Honestly, I think the Incarnum Spellshaping feat is an unnecessary feat tax for such a small number of niche spells. :smallyuk:)