How Would A Druid Grow A Biodome?

[Palanan]

I have a druid who would like to grow a series of interconnected domes, a cluster of living greenhouses as a place to shelter and work.

But how exactly can she go about this? Plant Growth stimulates foliage to grow, but it’s indiscriminate and doesn’t seem able to direct the pattern of growth. Are there any other spells that would encourage plants to grow, not in a wild thicket, but in a hemispherical shape?

[Geddy2112]

Plant growth works in a circle(radius), so the barrier would be a circle.

Control weather also works in a circle, so if you created a microclimate it would greatly influence the foliage and have a harsh divide.

The best way would be to put a barrier at the hemisphere to make a stark divide. You could manually salt the earth, use some targeted diminish plants, or simply cull back the plants with periodic walls of fire. A move earth spell could also stack sand or other materials that would prevent plants from growing, and give a nice foundation to build a biodome on top.

There is also manual pruning, but that would take a while. A hungry herbivorous animal companion could help.

[lylsyly]

"There is also manual pruning, but that would take a while. A hungry herbivorous animal companion could help."

Where's the Bloody Like button again?

[Psyren]

Plant Growth lets you choose parts of the area that are not affected at will - this would let you shape domes and neatly-shaped growth easily.

The only alternative I can think of is a demiplane, but you'd need another caster's help for that, e.g. a cleric or witch.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Psyren
Plant Growth lets you choose parts of the area that are not affected at will - this would let you shape domes and neatly-shaped growth easily.

Well, it lets you choose which areas don’t become thickly tangled, but it’s still more of a shaggy mess than anything. At most it gets you sort of a circular thicket, but not a dome at all.


Originally Posted by Geddy2112
There is also manual pruning, but that would take a while.

You can clip back the circular thicket into a circular hedge, but that’s definitely a major time investment, and it still doesn’t provide an actual dome.

I’m really looking for more of a “Let It Go” moment, where she casts the spell and the foliage grows into the pattern she commands. The dome shape is key, but it doesn’t sound as if there’s anything like that in Pathfinder, and probably not in 3.5 either.

[Jack_Simth]

I have a druid who would like to grow a series of interconnected domes, a cluster of living greenhouses as a place to shelter and work.

But how exactly can she go about this? Plant Growth stimulates foliage to grow, but it’s indiscriminate and doesn’t seem able to direct the pattern of growth. Are there any other spells that would encourage plants to grow, not in a wild thicket, but in a hemispherical shape?


Well... if it wasn't for "Druid", Create Demiplane (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spells/createDemiplane.html) + Permanency (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/permanency/) to get a permanent demiplane, plus other copies of the Create Demiplane (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spells/createDemiplane.html) line for things like "Bountiful" "Seasonal" and "Portal" will get nearly exactly what you want.

The only catch is that they're not on the Druid list. They're Cleric, Sor/Wiz, or Witch spells. This is not insurmountable (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?296803-Pathfinder-mini-guide-Casting-spells-from-other-lists), but depends on your build resources. The Dreamed Secrets (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/dreamed-secrets/) feat, maybe; if you're a Samsaran (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/uncommon-races/arg-samsaran/) you can take the Mystic Past Life alternate racial trait to add off-class spells. Could possibly UMD a staff, too.

[Psyren]

Well, it lets you choose which areas don’t become thickly tangled, but it’s still more of a shaggy mess than anything. At most it gets you sort of a circular thicket, but not a dome at all.

It lets you form a jungle - that means a canopy - while excluding any part of the area you please. Getting a dome is as easy as planting a rough circle of trees (or better, making the trees plant themselves) and having the spell only apply to the tops - easy-peasy.

[lord pringle]

You need to get Pauly Shore and Steven Baldwin, I think.

[Aldrakan]

I have a druid who would like to grow a series of interconnected domes, a cluster of living greenhouses as a place to shelter and work.

But how exactly can she go about this? Plant Growth stimulates foliage to grow, but it’s indiscriminate and doesn’t seem able to direct the pattern of growth. Are there any other spells that would encourage plants to grow, not in a wild thicket, but in a hemispherical shape?

Build a wooden lattice in the shape of the dome you want and plant climbing vines around it, then cast wild growth. The vines will naturally follow the shape of your structure and create the dome, and any other plants can either be cleared away in advance, or will be ground-bound and easy to remove. The right kind of vines will eventually grow stable enough to stay in place after the lattice decays. For additional support plant a tree in the center.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Jack_Simth
…permanent demiplane….

I appreciate the suggestion, but not looking for a demiplane. Just looking for a physical dome on the physical landscape.


Originally Posted by Psyren
It lets you form a jungle - that means a canopy - while excluding any part of the area you please. Getting a dome is as easy as planting a rough circle of trees (or better, making the trees plant themselves) and having the spell only apply to the tops - easy-peasy.

There’s no mechanism for the trunks to grow together into a single interlocking structure, which is what I’m going for here. Planting a circle of trees doesn’t mean their tops will curve inward to meet each other in the center, much less fuse into a single unit.

As near as I can tell, casting the spell on a circle of trees, and targeting the canopy layer, would only make the uppermost section of each tree overgrown. That won’t automatically cause the trees to grow together; more likely their upper branches would sag every which way from the additional weight, and probably break off in the first heavy storm.


Originally Posted by Aldrakan
Build a wooden lattice in the shape of the dome you want and plant climbing vines around it, then cast wild growth.

This would be the poor man’s option, but again it takes quite a bit of time and effort, as opposed to the one-and-done approach I was hoping for.


Originally Posted by Aldrakan
The right kind of vines will eventually grow stable enough to stay in place after the lattice decays.

Well, a strangler fig certainly would, but you’d need to grow trees into the dome shape first, and then encourage the strangler fig around it. That’s a project that would take years, if not decades, and a little outside the timeframe I’m looking for.

Maybe a better question is whether there’s a spell that could cause trees to grow inwards like buttresses. I don’t think Plant Growth will work for that, because there’s no directionality involved—Plant Growth only causes growth around the current position, and doesn’t actually shape living wood into a desired pattern. I need something that does.

[Psyren]

There’s no mechanism for the trunks to grow together into a single interlocking structure, which is what I’m going for here. Planting a circle of trees doesn’t mean their tops will curve inward to meet each other in the center, much less fuse into a single unit.

As near as I can tell, casting the spell on a circle of trees, and targeting the canopy layer, would only make the uppermost section of each tree overgrown. That won’t automatically cause the trees to grow together; more likely their upper branches would sag every which way from the additional weight, and probably break off in the first heavy storm.

By RAW though, you have total freedom to apply the spell piecemeal as you wish. It isn't shapeable (S), rather the area is "see text", ergo there is no 5ft cube minimum on what you can alter.

Making a tree curve therefore is as easy as growing one side of it and not the other. Make the outside of each tree longer than the inside and they will curve inward. Keep the spell from affecting any vegetation on the inside, and presto - you have a dome.

Respectfully, you seem more interested in trying to find ways this wouldn't work than in reasons that it could.

[Jack_Simth]

I appreciate the suggestion, but not looking for a demiplane. Just looking for a physical dome on the physical landscape.Stone shape on quartz blocks, perhaps? Smooth it out and it's transparent - hopefully lets enough light through to grow plants. Alternately... Wall of Stone doesn't specify the type of stone. Might be able to do it that way, especially if you use a clear quartz for the "seed" that Wall of Stone needs to merge with. Bring plants in normally (or just encase existing ones).

Edit: Also: Wood Shape (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/w/wood-shape/) doesn't specify that the wood has to be dead. Could be used to reshape existing trees to suit if you start with a suitable section of forest.

[Wraith]

Become an 8th Level Verdant Lord (http://dnd.arkalseif.info/classes/verdant-lord/index.html) and be creative with your new Animate Tree ability. You can order a particularly large plant to place itself wherever you want and pose it appropriately, then when the animated tree reverts back to normal it's "back in it's original form" ie, made of wood and not easily going to spring back into shape. It takes 24 hours per tree, but that's just an issue for down-time and/or finding especially large trees to be efficient about it.

If you're unable or unwilling to sink that much time and XP into a single class feature, you could instead go and befriend a Treant or two and put them to work - They have a similar ability that does the same thing, though they can do it to two trees at a time. They're also Good aligned and speak Druidic, so convincing them to do something that ultimately is good for the environment shouldn't be an insurmountable problem.

If you're absolutely intent on doing it yourself, cast Awaken on a whole bunch of trees, ask them to pose for you, and then be prepared to pass a bunch of Charisma checks in order to convince them to stick around once the charm effect wears off. This has the added bonus of creating built-in guardians for your new home, although with the caveat that they might one day walk off if Dominated or otherwise offended :smalltongue:

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Psyren
Making a tree curve therefore is as easy as growing one side of it and not the other. Make the outside of each tree longer than the inside and they will curve inward.

As written, I’m not sure the spell can do this. But even if it could, it still wouldn’t produce the sort of structure I’m looking for, which is essentially a living geodesic dome. Thickened, ingrown trees by themselves won’t do more than rub against each other, and won’t fuse and merge the way I need them to.


Originally Posted by Psyren
Respectfully, you seem more interested in trying to find ways this wouldn't work than in reasons that it could.

I have a specific idea of what I’m going for, and I’ve paid a lot of attention to the growth and structure of trees. I do appreciate the suggestions, but I don’t think Plant Growth is going to work for what I need.


Originally Posted by Jack_Simth
Stone shape on quartz blocks, perhaps? Smooth it out and it's transparent - hopefully lets enough light through to grow plants.

Now that’s an interesting idea. An elegant use of Stone Shape, to be sure, and definitely worth considering.


Originally Posted by Jack_Simth
Also: Wood Shape doesn't specify that the wood has to be dead.

That was one of the first things I checked, and both Wood Shape and Wood Warp don’t specifically mention that the wood should be dead. However, given the examples involved, they seem to be treating wood as an inanimate substance rather than part of a living organism.

I think what I really need is a custom spell that combines Wood Shape and Stone Shape, but applied to either seeds or saplings. Something that allows for rapid directed growth, perhaps following a pattern which the caster has sculpted in miniature, using a maquette of the finished design as a spell focus.

What caster level would a spell like that need to be?

[Psyren]

I have a specific idea of what I’m going for, and I’ve paid a lot of attention to the growth and structure of trees. I do appreciate the suggestions, but I don’t think Plant Growth is going to work for what I need.

Gotcha - well if stone domes are fine then your problem seems to be solved.

[PunBlake]

I think what I really need is a custom spell that combines Wood Shape and Stone Shape, but applied to either seeds or saplings. Something that allows for rapid directed growth, perhaps following a pattern which the caster has sculpted in miniature, using a maquette of the finished design as a spell focus.

What caster level would a spell like that need to be?

Wood Shape is Druid 2, and Stone Shape is Druid 3. A close approximation of building a structure is the spell Fabricate, so I'd say 5th with its quick 1r/10 cubic ft of material, or 4th with a longer casting time of 1min/10 cubic ft of material, with 10 cubic ft / CL as range. Effecting more material per single casting of the spell would bump the level up, so to keep spell level low, you'd likely need to cast it multiple times to build each dome... or bump the spell up to 5th to effect more material per CL.

This custom spell should not be usable in combat situations, but it seems perfectly reasonable to be able to build a structure using available natural materials and magic. Creating the focus would require craft check(s) based on the material involved, which makes the custom spell even closer to fabricate.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Psyren
Gotcha - well if stone domes are fine then your problem seems to be solved.

The quartz dome is an interesting option, but still looking for my living geodesic dome. Right now I'm trying to come up with the particulars for a custom spell.


Originally Posted by Jack_Simth
…if you're a Samsaran you can take the Mystic Past Life alternate racial trait to add off-class spells.

In fact, this is indeed a Samsaran druid, and she does have the Mystic Past Life racial trait. Since she’s a druid, my understanding is that she’s limited to other divine spells, so she’s drawing from the paladin list. Some good options there, but not much that’s tree-growy.


Originally Posted by PunBlake
…or 4th with a longer casting time of 1min/10 cubic ft of material, with 10 cubic ft / CL as range.

Interesting, thanks. This would require quite a few castings, since trees have a lot of volume, but it’s a good starting point.

[DwarvenWarCorgi]

Create waiterand transmute Mud to rock to keep areas of floor unvegetative.

[Jack_Simth]

That was one of the first things I checked, and both Wood Shape and Wood Warp don’t specifically mention that the wood should be dead. However, given the examples involved, they seem to be treating wood as an inanimate substance rather than part of a living organism.They're the category of "living objects" - it's mentioned in the plant type (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/plants/):

This type comprises vegetable creatures. Note that regular plants, such as one finds growing in gardens and fields, lack Wisdom and Charisma scores and are not creatures, but objects, even though they are alive.
So... still fair game.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by DwarvenWarCorgi
Create waiter and transmute Mud to rock to keep areas of floor unvegetative.

I assume the waiter sweeps the floor? :smalltongue:


Originally Posted by Jack_Simth
So... still fair game.

Actually I’m leaning towards the custom spell I mentioned earlier, combining Wood Shape and Stone Shape. I’m thinking 4th level is about right for the effect I want.

[DwarvenWarCorgi]

I assume the waiter sweeps the floor? :smalltongue:



Actually I’m leaning towards the custom spell I mentioned earlier, combining Wood Shape and Stone Shape. I’m thinking 4th level is about right for the effect I want.

Create water. Stupid fat fingers.