Advice on a reliable, magical tank

[Iuridius]

Greetings! Im new around here, although i read a lot of your great guides and good threads in the past months. I recently decided to subscribe and ask for your collective wisdom for helping me with my next character.
As my unbalanced party is merry marching to its doom in the upcoming boss fight, i felt the need to prepare in advance a new tanky character. Now, i know that most advices are given based on party formation, which excluded the current state of affairs i have not, but anyway i have a few pc ideas i would like to explore.
My almost-former char used to be a polearm fighter wannabe battlemaster (landsknecht), i read some guides about it here and i thought that both the flavor and the polearm mechanics were solid for a front line warrior with a good mix of control and survivability... well it wasnt. Aside from our DM inability to roll under 15,some general inexperience in the party and the absence of arcane casters i felt that a landsknecht while cool is not what my comrades needs.
So i read the guides once again and i became really interested in the Paladin and Eldritch Knight way of magical tanking, but i dont know what to choose.

The campaign im in is somewhat hard difficulty, and it doesnt really have a fixed limit (DM says it could last up to 10 years), so a strategic character planning is kinda useful.
'Basically' i want a sturdy warrior, more than capable of taking a beat, with some goodies to help the party should the situation requires it. I dont mind below avarage damage, also i dont mind multiclassing if it isnt some cheesy unflavoured combos. Also i would like to have some core mechanics available asap: i would rather have some not-uber-optimazed early game tank instead of a overpowered hero that comes online mid to late game.

So my (real) questions are: what are the tanky differences, gameplay-wise, between the Knight and the Paladin? What are theyr best build given the above requirements? How do they fare in the long run?
Feel free to bring good war stories instead/along arguments.

Thanks in advance folks

Bonus question. Should my party survive by chances of fate and god's (DM) blessing, could my char reliably convert into a bette, more usuful tank ?

VHuman Lvl 2 Fighter
Str 16 Dex 10 Con 16 Int 8 Wis 13 Char 10
Feats: Sentinel
Chain Mail und Zweihander (reskinned halberd because style). Also a muffin hat

[kamap]

For a tank I'd go for Paladin to lvl 2 and the rest of the levels as warlock.
I'd also go for the half elf or the Vhuman. depends if you find 1 point to 2 abilities and 2 charisma better then 1 point to 2 abilities and a feat.

You'll have shield and heavy armor proficiency right at the start.
You'll be able to smite with always the highest possible number of dice with your warlock slots.
With the warlock levels you could gain more cantrips, a familiar and ritual casting or a invisible familiar or be better at melee.That is if you only stay with the core books.

If you add xanathar's guide to everything in there are more options. Like using charisma for attacking and damage instead of strenght of dexterity with the hexblade patron.
So instead of needing high str, con and cha, you'll only need to invest in con and cha and just enough str to wear your armor.
You'll also have some healing capabilities and you'll get the best damaging cantrip in the game for the times you can't get into melee range.

[rbstr]

Few things are better at standing up to magic than an Oath of Ancients paladin. You get your charisma mod to all saves at level 6 and resistance to spell damage at level 7. They can also Bless to help with saves and attacks, and have pretty decent supporting spells.
For physical threats you're basically as tanky as a basic fighter.
The EK pretty much has shield and absorb elements for defense and then Indomitable eventually. So it's tanky (at a bit earlier level) but it can run out of resources with its limited spells per day.

There are a couple other things you might consider:
The Absorb Elements spell can really help someone tank elemental damage. Rangers get this, if you want to build something off that way.
The Bear totem Barbarian will have resistance to all things except psychic damage while raging.

The Ancestral Guardian Barbarian and the Cavalier Fighter both offer some stuff to protect other party members and yourself as well. These make you more of a "tank" in the way of an MMO where you will really encourage enemies to target you.

[GorogIrongut]

It's not been mentioned but a Forge Cleric. Great AC, good with wisdom and lots of healing when you need it.

[MagneticKitty]

Tortle fighter 1 / moon druid x
Wis >con>str>dex>int>cha
Use a shield made of turtle shell.
Defense fighting style gives you ac 17 + 2 + 1
Use primal savagery when forced into close combat. Dont carry any weapons. Use claws if cannot use acid melee spell (attacks of opportunity) you are a full caster with a couple ways to take hits. Near the beginning when everyone is healthy use animal forms up in melee as a tank. then caster and a.c. tank when you need to buff / heal. Add 1 lv life cleric if desired. Give out good berries do that every member has one, which can maybe be fed to allies as an action for 1 hp stabalization tactics that all members can do.

Or go warforged fighter 1 / forge cleric x
18 full plate +2 shield +1 defense fighting style +1 warforged + 1 forge blessing armor +1 and resistance to fire at lv 6 forge cleric + eventual resistance to nonmagical damage at lv 17.
24 a.c. full caster cleric build. Comes online at lv 7.
23 a.c. at lv 2
take that elementally adept feat that makes people not resist all your fire smite and spells

[GlenSmash!]

An EK has great personal defenses. Going into Abjurer or War Wizard can add even more defense.

A Paladin has better party buffs and support. Multiclassing into a full caster can add more spell slots for smiting, or utility.

I think both sound pretty fun.

[CTurbo]

I'm gonna throw in Tempest Cleric as it takes more than just having a high AC to to a great tank. You can sit down in melee with full Plate + shield for 20AC but you can also deal damage with your reaction when hit while also punishing every enemy within 10ft of you with Spirit Guardians. You can use Spiritual Weapon with your bonus action to damage enemies anywhere between 5-60ft of you. Oh and you're a full caster. The best part is, you don't even HAVE to use your action to attack if you don't want. You can throw out some buffing spells, or heal, or just simply take the dodge action.

[Rerem115]

I'm going to +1 the EK. Heavy Armor, Defense fighting style, and a shield mean you're rocking an AC of 21 without spending any resources or any magic items. On top of that, you have shield, so your functional AC is going to be even higher than that. You also have Indomitable, so you've got a bit better chance on your saves. You'll have some magic for utility out of combat as well.

Because you're a fighter, you'll have ASIs for days, which give you a lot more flexibility to build your character while you level up. Also, your DPR will be respectable; at low levels, SCAG cantrips + Bonus Action attack will carry the day, and at higher levels you'll just have more attacks than anybody else.

[Biggstick]

Tortle fighter 1 / moon druid x
Wis >con>str>dex>int>cha
Use a shield made of turtle shell.
Defense fighting style gives you ac 17 + 2 + 1

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/07/18/does-a-shield-count-as-wearing-armor/

Using a shield and the Unarmored feature of Tortle doesn't qualify you for the Defense Fighting style.

In response to the OP's question, we need more information regarding what's allowed and what isn't allowed. What kind of stat generation are you using? Basic character generation information will allow us to further help in regard to showing you a build that can do what you're looking for.

Moving on though, if you know you're specifically going up against spellcasters, it really is hard to beat out the Oath of the Ancients Paladin. The resistance to spell damage is simply phenomenal. One of the other reasons I'd recommend OotA or OoV (Vengeance) over any of the other Oaths as a primary tank is access to Misty Step. It's an incredibly powerful ability that gives tanks the ability to hold the line until the last person gets through, then being able to Misty Step out of the horde of baddies to the rest of the party. Now this might not be a good enough reason for other folks, but if your DM is as tough as you say he is, having this mobility is important for being able to properly re-position on a tank.

The other option presented is Eldritch Knight. Depending on how you build your Eldritch Knight, they're going to be much more suited to being able to deal with what's been put in front of you. The reason I say this is that some folks like to grab spells that won't scale on their EK's, and that's ok! But if you want your choices to be ones that are useful once you get into the mid-game, Shield and Absorb Elements are going to be your bread and butter. Now one of the issues EK's run into is the lack of spell slots. Well, this is where you multiclass. Now the options are up to you, but personally I'd recommend either levels in Wizard or Cleric. The exact mix you go with is really up to you, both in how many levels of Fighter you go overall and whether you go Wizard or Cleric (and how many levels in either), but it'll come out well in the end either way. However you do it though, I'd recommend going 6 levels of Fighter with Warcaster and Resilient Wisdom. After those 6 levels, grab a level or two of Cleric or Wizard, then come back to Fighter when you're ready to move towards that stat ASI at Fighter 8.

The reason we're open to either Cleric or Wizard is really based on what your stats look like. Imo, you should have your Intelligence at an 8 or 10, and only choose spells for EK that don't factor in to your spells. This is why I'd look to Cleric (that and they have some pretty solid Bonus Action economy with Healing Word, Shield of Faith, and Sanctuary), as I make sure to have at least 13 Wisdom (set up for Resilient Wisdom) on my Fighters. If you're someone that will put points into Intelligence on your EK, you'll be able to grab a few more utility based Rituals, as well as spell recovery, further increasing the longevity of your spell casting. With either route, I'd look to grab 2-3 levels of the full spellcasting class by level 11.

With both routes, we're looking to use a shield. The EK will have Absorb Elements, Shield, and Warcaster reactions to use BB or GFB (whichever you decided to go with). Similar to how EK's grab Warcaster to become a bigger threat in stickiness, Paladins will need to take a feat like PAM or Sentinel to do the same.

Back to the Paladin though, everything is built in to the class. You don't have to worry about multiclassing or figuring out exactly what spells to make sure are learned at a specific level. If you've gone OotA, you're a solid archetype to go against spellcasters, and should have decent Action economy (except for Reactions). If you want further customization though, an EK multiclass character might be more suited for what you're trying to do.

[Nifft]

Single-Class Cleric (Tempest, Light, or Nature) - all 3 of these are magical heavies in big thick armor, and they make themselves a threat with ranged and melee attacks.

Single-Class Paladin (especially Ancients) - sufficient magic, great passive buffs which can help your party and keep you alive.

Multi-Class Paladin / Sorcerer - The ideal level break is going to depend on your total character level. You want at least Paladin 2 for Smiting; at most Paladin 6 for Extra Attack and the aura. The rest can be Sorcerer.

Eldritch Knight looks really good on paper but I haven't played one.

[rbstr]

A thing I'd point out too from your PS section there: Your level 2 pole-arm-wielding Fighter can certainly still be a perfectly decent tanky dude. You've already got sentinel, which is good for that. 16 con will help too.
The low level really don't offer much distinction between PLD/Fighter in terms of taking damage. You've got heavy armor and a d10 hit die..and there you go.
When you pick your archetype at level 3 you can pick up EK for the defensive spells for yourself or Cavalier for something a bit more mundane.

[MagneticKitty]

I forgot defensive style required armor tbh. XD and mariner requires lack of shield. Well pure druid it is then on the build

[Grod_The_Giant]

Oath of the Ancients Paladin 7/Ancestral Guardian Barbarian 6? Paladin gets you all those lovely auras, to say nothing of a bunch of face-smashing and healing, while Ancestral Guardian offers classic tanky "force people to attack you" and "directly reduce damage taken by your allies" abilities.

[Iuridius]

Thanks for the input folks! Now tonight i should have some more insight into future party composition, but anyway i have some more info to share.

Since im racist against savages and treehuggers druids, barbarians and wood-dweller elves are no-go to me. I know they can make good builds but really i cant stomach the flavor, also im very fond of heavy armor, shields and swords.
About what's allowed, we have access to all officialy released material except UA and we point buy our abilities. Less importantly, we dont choose premade backgrounds, instead we handle them hand-written to DM who gives us skill proficiencies, personality traits and an item bound to become magical as we level.


A thing I'd point out too from your PS section there: Your level 2 pole-arm-wielding Fighter can certainly still be a perfectly decent tanky dude. You've already got sentinel, which is good for that. 16 con will help too.


Thats what i thought theorycrafting my landsknecht: push-piking foes away and smack them. Problem is, i cant reliably stay alive for that: i always get focused fire, survive 1 or 2 rounds before im down and rolling death saves. Thing is my party already have a s&b paladin, but is never on the frontline (always last one in formation to cover our never-threatened shoulders) and his player is actually so noob that he remembered spellcasting materials while he was about to cast bless in the midst of our current dungeon. Said he doesnt like the class (how would anyone...), so im more and more considering taking his role.

Ancient Paladin seems really a strong option for what i would like to do, i always rolled paladins back in the baldurs gate days and always loved how resilient they were against magic, its something i can definitely play even if flavour wise i dont like its tenets so much (also they dont seems compatible with most pact magic).
On the other hand, EK opens up the option of full armored arcane spellcasting, something always kept me away from arcane gish in all my d&d career, also my party doesnt have good arcane cc (a tomelock should join us soon, but its not a wizard). Do you think an EK/Wizard is more useful and/or durable in the long run then a Paladin, even if multiclassed into warlock? I do understand that any proper EK takes time and patience to lift off

[kamap]

If you take 2 levels in paladin and the rest in warlock (or something else) you can just ignore the Tenets.

[Nifft]

Ancient Paladin seems really a strong option for what i would like to do, i always rolled paladins back in the baldurs gate days and always loved how resilient they were against magic, its something i can definitely play even if flavour wise i dont like its tenets so much (also they dont seems compatible with most pact magic). Ancients Paladin is very good.

In terms of Pact Magic, the Archfey is probably flavor-compatible with Ancients.

Sorcerer is compatible with any Paladin, and is long-term probably stronger than Warlock -- but if you want Warlock for flavor then go for it, it's not weak at all.


On the other hand, EK opens up the option of full armored arcane spellcasting, something always kept me away from arcane gish in all my d&d career, also my party doesnt have good arcane cc (a tomelock should join us soon, but its not a wizard). Do you think an EK/Wizard is more useful and/or durable in the long run then a Paladin, even if multiclassed into warlock? I do understand that any proper EK takes time and patience to lift off I wouldn't mix those three classes.

Bladesinger or War Wizard might give you what you want in a single class.

If you just want heavy armor + arcane spellcasting, then look at Cleric 1 / Wizard ++, specifically the domains which give you heavy armor for 1 level dip (e.g. Tempest which also gives you martial weapons).

Pick either Abjuration or Divination for extra tankiness.

[Renduaz]

The magical tank is actually the best tank in the game, several orders above everything else, if you know what you're doing. And you don't need to MC in martial classes for it.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?533093-The-Defensive-Wizard-Strategy-Build